Now for some geeky stuff.
Here's my thoughts:

Beauty is pretty subjective. If you hang out with your buddies and judge girls, which you have no doubt done before (I know I have) then you will notice that some girls that you find to be really hot, or 'HB8-10s', your buddies will find unattractive or not that hot. This makes me believe that beauty is subjective.

But what about that universal ideal of beauty? Those supermodels you see on the magazines, the movie stars, the tanned, fit girls in bikinis on Miami beach?

I believe this has something to do with social conditioning (I need to stop listening to The Blueprint so much). This ideal of beauty is socially installed - a 'standard' is created, a general acceptance of what is attractive and what is not, and we follow this.

Another theory is that beauty is part subjective and part accepted. In other words, individual perception of beauty is based loosely on the socially installed standard of beauty with our own fetishes and preferences added that stray slightly from the standard. I know that I have some of my own that I prefer - some people like tanned girls, and I do too but I also like pale girls. This is where all preferences come in - common ones like race (asian, black, white, etc.) hair colour (ginger, brunette, blond) shape of face (oval, round, etc) height, weight, build, even things so specific as eye colour. Some of these are even subconscious. If I look at a picture of a girl I find good looking and a girl I don't, I usually can't quite decide what I like about one and don't like about the other (with the exception of obvious differences like ugly girl vs. socially accepted beautiful girl).

If beauty is socially installed, then theoretically, babies and young children should not have this standard of beauty in their heads yet. However, I have heard of tests they did with babies and beautiful / ugly women. They had two pictures, one of an HB10 and another of an ugly girl, that they showed a baby, and the baby always preferred (I don't know how it communicated this) the 'beautiful' woman.

Others talk about the symmetry of faces. If a face follows a 'golden ratio', then it will be considered beautiful. This shows the theory that beauty is a universal constant based on a golden ratio.

Some info on the Golden Ratio (thanks Mr Amador)
"Adolf Zeising, whose main interests were mathematics and philosophy, found the golden ratio expressed in the arrangement of branches along the stems of plants and of veins in leaves. He extended his research to the skeletons of animals and the branchings of their veins and nerves, to the proportions of chemical compounds and the geometry of crystals, even to the use of proportion in artistic endeavors. In these phenomena he saw the golden ratio operating as a universal law.[42] In connection with his scheme for golden-ratio-based human body proportions, Zeising wrote in 1854 of a universal law "in which is contained the ground-principle of all formative striving for beauty and completeness in the realms of both nature and art, and which permeates, as a paramount spiritual ideal, all structures, forms and proportions, whether cosmic or individual, organic or inorganic, acoustic or optical; which finds its fullest realization, however, in the human form."

Some more reading:
The Beauty Illusion the-illusion-of-beauty-vt1659.html?highlight=
Perfect Facial Construction: http://www.femininebeauty.info/stephen- ... pplication
http://theperfecthumanface.blogspot.com/

Some people commonly thought of as beautiful / hot:








Those are my thoughts, what are yours?

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Jaxin has the best answer on that that I've seen:

the-illusion-of-beauty-vt1659.html?highlight=

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Good link there, I checked that out and it backs up my theory that it is subjective.
I never thought about the value portion of it though. Why is it that beauty has value to us though?

_________________
-Sharplin
My journal:
sharplins-journal-vt84603.html?highlight=

I like to think that we percive something beautiful BECAUSE it has value. Not the other way around.

I questionned myself recently about beauty. Basically, I was wondering why it was that whatever age I was, I was always finding women around my age the most beautifull. When I was 14 it was the case, when I was 18, 22, 25, 27...

I think that I percieve them as having a high value to me (more intellectual connections to women same age, more commont interests because of common upbringing... etc..), thus attractive/beautyfull.

_________________
Drink me, make me feel real
Wet your beak in the stream
Game we're playing is life
Love is a two way dream

Man, that'd be kind of cool if I got physically aroused by ankles over breast. I'm too picky with boobies, but there's a lot of fine looking ankles out there!

I'd say that beauty is subjective. What's attractive to me may not be attractive to the next guy.

Take this for an example:

You see a girl (Let's call her B) and you think " Well B is a 7 ".

But then one friend comes by and tells you that B is the hottest girl he have ever seen. At this point your perception (maybe as a PUA) will tell you that he is an AFC and fell in love... You don't doubt about yourself... yet.

Second friend comes by and tells you B is damn sexy. You look again and maybe bend a little and say " Well B is more of a 7.5 ".

Third friend comes by and tells you he is into B. That's it, you will take a look at her and you will want to know her, because there is something that you ain't seeing and everyone does... And from now on B is a 9, and if you can't get her, she will become a 10.

-------

Same old system... Offer and demand, if everyone wants something the price will raise (even if the true thing doesn't value that much). "You will always want, what you can't have". That's why prohibited stuff is so interesting and thrilling, and also the unknown stuff (esoteric things).

We are born in a system that tell us what to do, what to buy, what to like... Sorry my friend, you ain't choosing what you like (don't get that statement wrong).


Why people in the old days liked fat girls?



Why do we like slim girls?


The influence of the media is greater than we thought, movies create trends (reservoir dogs, caused everyone to use ray ban glasses with a suit... etc.). They make us want something. It's the power of marketing and the power of social pressure.

---

There are indeed some qualities that make you like someone (baby faces, face expressions that remind you of someone, faces that remind you of your love ones), these kind of qualities affect your reaction... but once again, you don't choose to like them, they are in your brain. They remind you of good things, good emotions, and therefore you want to be with them. (In the case of baby faces, we tend to like them, because they are cute and harmless. Feeling secure is one of the important pillars of evolution.)



- Beauty is socially installed for the masses... but I do agree beauty is subjective in a more personal level... but affected by society

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The power of influence, how could I forget! True, I will usually think a girl is more attractive if most of my friends also think so.

And yes, I always crave what I can't have. And once I can have it? I don't want it so much anymore.

This is one of my main sticking points with women, on a side note. Other than fear of escalation due to chance of rejection, I would often just lose interest.
With most of the girls I have been into (70% or so) they eventually showed some sort of interest in me, whether just a few IOIs or major interest like PAS all the time and hanging out and all the signs you could think of. Once I saw this, I realized I could have them if I wanted, so I just lost interest.

Same thing applies to judging beauty - if its a supermodel on the cover of VOGUE, you'll likely think they're hotter than the girl you fucked the night before you bought the magazine.

_________________
-Sharplin
My journal:
sharplins-journal-vt84603.html?highlight=

I remember reading a scientific study several years ago that said facial symmetry is the deciding factor in how "beautiful" people rate others, but I can't remember where I read it or what the evidence to support that claim was.

Either way, it seems there is at least a modicum of objectivity in the realm of determining who is physically attractive.

Your boy,
870

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I read it here, but couldn't find the post.

But they talk about a prefect human face (one for men and one for women) with perfect symmetry and based on the golden ratio here are some links:

http://www.femininebeauty.info/stephen- ... pplication

http://theperfecthumanface.blogspot.com/



Therefore... Beauty is installed by nature and society, so beauty being subjective?

Science: NO, it is universal

_________________


My website: www.pualife.webs.com

New TWITTER account: http://twitter.com/xfman1

Facebook: xf_pua@hotmail.com

Yeah I've heard this too. It makes sense really, if you look at all socially accepted 'beautiful' women, they all seem to have symmetrical faces, among other common traits.

I saw an episode of The Office last night and they were judging whether Hilary Swank was hot. They talked about facial symmetry and other stuff too.

_________________
-Sharplin
My journal:
sharplins-journal-vt84603.html?highlight=

Dude!! Golden Ratio FTW!!!

1.6180339887498948482…

A huge component of what idiots call beauty is social conditioning. Real beauty is the golden ratio. And thats no theory, its a fact.

Straight from Wikipedia:

"Adolf Zeising, whose main interests were mathematics and philosophy, found the golden ratio expressed in the arrangement of branches along the stems of plants and of veins in leaves. He extended his research to the skeletons of animals and the branchings of their veins and nerves, to the proportions of chemical compounds and the geometry of crystals, even to the use of proportion in artistic endeavors. In these phenomena he saw the golden ratio operating as a universal law.[42] In connection with his scheme for golden-ratio-based human body proportions, Zeising wrote in 1854 of a universal law "in which is contained the ground-principle of all formative striving for beauty and completeness in the realms of both nature and art, and which permeates, as a paramount spiritual ideal, all structures, forms and proportions, whether cosmic or individual, organic or inorganic, acoustic or optical; which finds its fullest realization, however, in the human form."

EDIT: In modern times some dudes found that even the spirals on may sea creature's shells involve the golden ratio.

EDIT 2.0: Even on our DNA!!!

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