Today, I came to a rather disturbing epiphany about PU and myself: I can't trust women to be true anymore.

I guess it started when I read Kowalski's post on a girl with a fiance. The entire day, I couldn't get the thought that, "Wow, if a guy like me have made women cheat on their guys, what're the chances of me finding a girl who'd stay faithful to me?"

I spent the entire day in a dark brood. Let's face guys, the reason why we all got into PUA is not only to be able to get the girls we want, but, ultimately, to find that special woman we'd like to spend our lives with. Before learning PU, I saw women in two lights/misconceptions: The faithful (ie girl next door, the bookworms, the misunderstood tomboys...etc...) and the unfaithful (girls in leather, girls with too much make up, girls who drink themselves into a drunken stupor). Obviously, my aim was for the former as oppose to the latter.

Pick up has taught me that women are just as spontaneous and as sexually driven as men are. However, after a two years of learning PU and having meet more women then I'd ever thought I could, I have some doubts about ever meeting a girl that I could bring home to meet mama.

Perhaps I should better articulate my thoughts a bit more: I believe it is impossible to meet an HB8 (+/-2 ) who is able to commit to a serious relationship. I just can't imagine it anymore?

The concept is a completely alien thought to me now. I'd likely believe in the existence of Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny before I believe in a HB8 (+/-2) who's capable of remaining faithful to me is out there.

I understand that many of us have certain unwritten rules of morality and honor when it comes to PU (IE never seduce on someone's wife, never try to PU on a wing's girl...) but there are those of us out there who don't have any. But after being with so many taken women who threw their existing relationship away for a one nightstand without hesitation, I feel like I'm back to square one again.

Am I the only one who's questioned this part of PU and women? Is it just simply a phase that all of us who'd got to a certain point as PUAs go through?

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Look back to yesterday, remember all the things you'll regret? Come back to the now. Think about tomorrow, how many regrets do you think you're going to have?

So you're saying if your wife had a one night stand, you'd be broken up about it?

I thought only chicks equated love with sex.

With all the sugarcoating of the in/out, in/out sport seems to get, nobody has ever been able to explain to me the difference between sex and say . . . a good game of tennis. Sex is great and all but hell, I have a ball playing tennis with a hot chick as well. As for me, why can't I find a girl with a mind and life of her own who goes on her own tennis days once in a while.

Also, I'm not saying you have a needle dick or that you don't give efforts to your relationships or you're not a blast to be around with and supportive, and etc . . . but I find that the people who give the littlest into the relationships are also the most insecure.

I want my partners to go have a taste. Go ahead and try them out . . . let me know how fooling around with bench warmers on the junior high JV team works out for them. Have a blast "doing stuff"? Have fun "hanging out"? How many guys can actually talk a good game let alone execute one?

Now if a real fun, studly guy comes around, I'd still want my partners to have a taste because they might really love it. The problem is, when I'm so open about, it seems to be a total turn off for them because a lot of women seem to dig the sneaking around bit. Anyhow, we only live once. Women deserve some fun too right?

The problem itself isn't that I do equate it to love, it's that I the deeper I go into the world of Pick Up, the harder and harder it is for me to remember why I learned Pick Up to begin with. Which was, ultimately, to find someone I want to spend the rest of my life with.

I'm content with the bar and clubs at the moment. I'm happier with my life now than I every thought I could three years ago. But it seems that the better I get as a PUA, the further away my original goal slips away from me.

And yes, if my future-wife were to cheat on me, I would fall apart, because I would've chosen to invest emotionally, quite a bit, in her. But I can't even bring myself to trust women anymore, let alone married one. As of right now in my life, I can't even begin to think that such a woman exists at all. And that's something that disturbs me quite a bit. If I can't bring myself to believe in that, why bother learning P.U. at all? I make more than enough money that I can get a call girl of my choice a few nights a week and still live comfortably. Why should I put in the emotional effort and foot work to find something I view as mythical, when I can just dial a number and get a guaranteed HB8+ in my bedroom within thirty minutes?

Another disturbing view that I've noticed is that I have come to see women as simply objects of my sexual release. Lately, after I've slept with a women my interests in them completely drops. Granted, I'm sure some are happy with a no strings attach one night stands, but I've gotten more than a few dozen angry text messages that I've just shrugged off. Hell, I kicked one out of my bed because I felt too hot to simply cuddle afterwards.

All this both worries and scares me. I'm slowly turning into a man who's bitter and suspicious of the other gender. As well as becoming that jerk to women I swore I'd never turned into. I want to know, from those who've been doing P.U. for years, is this a simply a phase I'm going through? Am I over thinking certain aspects of my pseudo-relationships?

Also, I'm a Buddhist, so no, we don't only live once in my book.

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Look back to yesterday, remember all the things you'll regret? Come back to the now. Think about tomorrow, how many regrets do you think you're going to have?

I went through a stage of loosing all faith in women, due to how slutty they can be but so can guys so it seems a tad unfair to hold it against them.
Also I believe you will never meet an amazing girl by actively looking, it is more a case of approaching for the sake of approaching then suddenly someone will just appear through the haze of different women (yes I realize approaching is looking but, you get the idea).

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Troll the trolls
free book http://www.4shared.com/file/123140320/b ... ndows.html

I think you dont need to worry about this. You said it yourself, your much happier with your life than you was before. So just enjoy it and eventually when you dont suspect it you will meet a girl where you fall in love with. And you as pua are so interesting that she wont ever even think about another guy. I believe that if you are afraid that your girlfriend is cheating on you it will happen and vice versa. Love is something you cant force just dont search for it and you will find it.

I'd suggest you get a gf man, it sounds like you have yet to get a LTR, things change, girls change, when they are in them.

TBH some relationships are stronger than others, if you are good and she is good, and you've made that commitment it can take more than hell and high water to break that.

Also... buddhist.....

which sect? I'm buddhist yet, I hold almost no belief whatsoever in re-incarnation, it'd be cool to chat sometime

If I understand correctly, he has become disdainful of long term relationships since he has personally bedded many women who had, prior to meeting him, been in an LTR.

I have a few suggestions for you ConvAZN.

One, keep gaming until you find a girl you dig who can't be gamed. Isn't that what Style did?

Two, assertively revise your own mindset. Have you seduced a girl at a church picnic yet? Maybe part of the problem is that you're looking at a narrow subset of women and generalizing to all women. Maybe you need to step back and consider venues that you've previously avoided.

Three, part of your disillusionment appears to be because your personal experience suggests how easy it is to make women unfaithful. If you find this experience distressing, though, then subconsciously, you are going to be harbouring feelings of self-recrimination over being a man who seduces other men's girls. If you want a trustworthy woman, become a trustworthy man (not an AFC, but you can be more of a gentleman and still succeed at pickup.)

Four, when you DO find a girl with whom you'd like to make a go of it, teach her your tricks. Explain how you used X, Y, and Z to help win her over. This will have three positive effects for you. If she sticks around even though she knows that you gamed her, it's because she trusts you. If she knows how to use game, she'll probably be more confident and flirty herself, which will make her sexier to you. If she knows about game, she'll be able to recognize it better when some other guy tries to game her.

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Some vices miss what is right because they are deficient, others because they are excessive, in feelings or in actions, while virtue finds and chooses the mean.
Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea

I was talking about him

ConvAZN, it sounds like you are your own worst enemy. You say you want to get into a loving, faithful LTR with a girl; yet you've kicked a chick out of your bed as soon as you've slept with her. What you need to do, I think, is change your habits slightly. You don't want to be that jerk? Well, don't be that jerk. You do have a choice you know. Don't just sit back and blame pick-up.

There are still women out there who are capable of being faithful to a man...even if she has a PUA picking up on her. And many of these women ARE attractive! I don't know what your scale looks like (HB8 for you might be an HB9 or an HB4 to me), but I'm sure there are even women that you would find attractive out there who are willing to stay faithful.

My sister is a good example. She is good lookin. I'm not going to give her a number because it would be completely biased (we look alike), but she is a beautiful woman (DAMN HOT). She is married (has been for 4 years now and had a baby last may). She would never cheat on her husband. I can't even picture any sort of game working on her. She would see ANY man talking to her (unless he is a friend of both hers and her husband's or a friend of mine) as him trying to pick her up, and would ignore him right away. Some women have this one-track-emotional mind/heart.

I like to think that if I ever met someone who I decided to commit to in that huge way (marriage!! :-O ) I would be the same way. Maybe that's why I'm so very picky. I refuse to settle with someone who I am not stimulated by enough to not let my mind/heart wander.

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Hobbit says that I should tell you I'm female.....so.....

HI!!! I'm a Girl!

So then here's a koan for you: Who are you?

Maybe you should ask yourself if your perfect match has to be sexually exclusive to you. When you get done with that one try working on "Who is she," with every girl you pickup. This helped me a lot. http://www.seductivereasoning.com/

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Artax
Devil's Advocate

"You're only as young as the women you feel."
"I am the Master of my unspoken words, and the Slave to those words that should have remained unsaid."