http://www.wikihow.com/Pick-Up-Men

so, this came up on my igoogle page (i have a wikihow gadget) and it made me laugh and reminded me of the pua forum. i read it, and it was very generalized, but not too bad. girls are often shy, and thus will not likely walk up to a guy and talk. also, generally women need to be more careful of predators/stalkers/etc.

so my question to the crowd is this: do guys even like being picked up? or do they prefer to be 'in charge'?

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the place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum...

I like getting approached! Do it!

I've got no problem whatsoever with a girl coming up to me and talking to me, unless I'm really busy (in which case I'll tell her that I'm super busy, get her number, and call her later). In fact, a long time ago, I decided that I would NEVER "blow out" a girl who opened me. It didn't matter how bad I was feeling at the time, or what I was doing, or who the girl was, I would ALWAYS be nice. Simple reasons:

1. Approaching is scary. I want to make approaching me not-scary, because I like being approached. So I figured that by some sort of karmic mechanics, if I were to be really nice to every girl who opened me, more girls would do so.

2. The game is always on. I don't want to lose a perfectly well-attracted girl just because I'm not in "game mode." So I've got to be ready to get opened at any time.

In my experience, if a girl puts a move on a guy and it doesn't go anywhere, it's usually because the guy doesn't know the girl is interested in him. I've had girls come up to me and do random-ass shit (unzipping pockets on sweaters, asking random questions, complimenting me), and until recently, I didn't realize that they were trying to start conversations because they were interested in me. It just flew right over my head.

Example:

A few weeks ago, I was talking to a friend of mine in a bar. Some girl came up to us and asked if we were from England. We both said "no," because we weren't. She then told us that she WAS from England.

Us: "...oh. Okay."

We didn't think she was weird or anything, we simply didn't know what to do with that piece of information. It didn't dawn on us that she was trying to "open" us until the (female) bartender TOLD us that she was trying to get laid ("and how did you not know that, guys? JEEZ, it was SO obvious"). This was after the girl left.

Our male thought process was going "huh? England? What?" We were analyzing the logical content of the words that were coming out of the girl's mouth. Because we're guys. We didn't realize that she was just trying to start a conversation with us and get an emotional vibe going.

Because we're guys.

So when we gave her a "huh? What" reaction, she thought we were weirded out by her and left. When, in fact, we weren't weirded out at all. We simply had no idea what she was doing. It was implicit that there was a reason for what she was doing, but we thought that reason had something to do with England. Because that's what she was talking about. There was no judgment of her; hell, there was no "mental space" available to make a judgment of her. We were still trying to figure out what England had to do with anything when she left.

Because, once again, we figured there was a reason why she said what she said, and we were convinced that we simply didn't know what it was. We didn't even consider that she was hitting on us. The logical content of what she was saying didn't have anything to do with her liking us, so we didn't assume it.

Going up to most guys and saying that is like typing "England" into Google. You'll get a bunch of information about England, but Google won't realize that you have any feelings towards it. It's just, "oh, England, retrieve information, here you go." That's how most guys think. We're like Google. Most of us don't realize that you're trying to talk to us for the sake of talking to us.

If we had realized that, we'd have been like, "oh... OH! This girl wants rapport. We were not aware of that. We thought she wanted to talk about England. Here, have some rapport. We will now tell you stuff about ourselves and ask you questions and stuff, because we are now aware that that's what you wanted to do."

How about if you "go direct" on a guy? Ever done that? Don't be surprised if he just freezes up and doesn't say anything, or even gives you cold body language. If he does, it's NOT because he isn't attracted to you and you've weirded him out. It's because he IS attracted to you, and he's afraid of weirding YOU out, and he has NO IDEA WHAT TO DO. He just goes deer-in-headlights.

Seriously, if you go out tonight and do that, the guy you're doing that to has probably had it happen to him fewer than ten times in his entire life. So he doesn't have a standard operating procedure for it, and won't know what to do.

If you take this tack, you can get the guy to open up fairly easily. Just ask him questions and don't respond negatively to anything he says. Demonstrate to him that it's okay to talk to you and he'll do so. Ease him into the vibe.

...if you're still interested in a guy that freezes up when you talk to him, that is.

Or you can just touch him a lot, keep getting closer to him, and make out with him. He probably won't stop you, and THAT will send the message loud and clear.

In any event, you've got to realize that you, as a girl, instinctively understand emotions a lot better than guys do. You navigate the waves and folds of emotion like a jet skier. Most of us are just treading water. Guys are not a massively complicated mystery to be solved; it's just that you're working fluently in calculus and we barely understand algebra.

Maybe we're just wired that way. Maybe most guys don't have much experience with flirting and so can't figure out WHEN it's going on (we don't extrapolate "I am flirting with you" from "England"). Maybe the experience that guys DO have with flirting is painful, so in order to avoid that, we mentally de-sexualize every interaction with a girl to avoid even the possibility of a painful and scary flirting scenario (painful and scary because it involves the possibility that we could misinterpret what's going on and be called "creepy," which is the male equivalent of "slut" in terms of how much we DON'T want to be called that).

Slow down and simplify. You're dealing with emotional retards.

...damn, I wrote a lot more than I originally intended to. Stupid caffeine.

_________________
http://www.makeherchaseyou.com/ <- Free 10-Day Bootcamp from Herbal
http://www.bristollair.com/outer-game/s ... ibing.html <- Tyler Durden on Vibing
frame-control-defining-reality-and-bei-vt34530.html

Bonita and the other female members have posted some really good stuff on this (I name her because she's the one that started most of the threads). I can't remember the names of the threads right off the top of my head, but they're definitely worth PMing her about.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

that makes me laugh. very cool. that makes perfect sense. i like the google analogy; it definitely describes the direct logical thinking pattern

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the place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum...

Haha thanks Rye!

I have noticed that guys like being approached and are rather receptive as long as the girl is somewhat attractive. Guys that I approached literally told me they were glad that I did and that it took so much pressure off him. If the girl is less attractive they will be more distant and won't be too engaging (unless the girl does something to change his mind), but most guys don't turn girls away in the way girls turn guys away (via the bitch shield).

The one problem I have encountered with approaching guys is that because I am making the aggressive role, they assume the submissive role. Maybe that is their general nature and why they weren't approaching girls anyway, but I notice that when I approach guys, I am in control the entire time. I would like a guy to take the reigns once I open him...after all I did the hard part! Now he needs to step up and be the man!! If you are going to open a guy you don't want to come off to forward or promiscuous (unless you just want to sleep with him). He will either get the slut vibe from you or you will scare him. haha

ABSOLUTELY!! argh that frustrates the crap out of me. even in a relationship or whatever. i'm slightly impatient, and thus will take steps to initiate, but at some point, PLEASE step up and be a man, for pity's sake!
ok *steps down from soap box* haha. sorry. rant.

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the place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum...

Yep, pretty much. Guys are nice. We've got no reason to shoo people away.
Heh. The reason for that is twofold: one, you may be approaching a guy who simply isn't used to the aggressive role, and two, even if you are, he's got no momentum at that time.

Reason one: most guys aren't used to flirting. The idea of being "aggressive" is something that is not only alien to them, but something that they think is BAD. They think that girls don't like aggression, or if they do, that they don't like that much of it. So the guy just won't have any idea of what he's supposed to be doing and will end up in the submissive role by default.

Reason two: common "community" knowledge is that pooahs should open the first set they see at the beginning of the night to build up momentum. And we should just keep going. If we start the night off chode, we will remain chode the entire night by sheer inertia. If the guy has been chatting people up all night, he'll take over in a second. If not, he won't go "submissive," necessarily, but he won't push either. He's just not in the headspace for it.

_________________
http://www.makeherchaseyou.com/ <- Free 10-Day Bootcamp from Herbal
http://www.bristollair.com/outer-game/s ... ibing.html <- Tyler Durden on Vibing
frame-control-defining-reality-and-bei-vt34530.html

My theory is that in this situation men are afraid to mess up whatever they have done right so far and so they try to follow rather than lead because of that fear that they will do the wrong thing. I'd suggest giving them a push and in some way making it clear that you want them to be a man and take the lead. That's obviously easier to say than it is to do because you need to do so while still building rapport and not destroying it.

Men will do what you tell them though, that's how we're raised. Mom, dad, boss, teacher, coach, girl in a bar, doesn't really matter, someone gives us some directions we're usually gonna follow them if we desire approval from that person. The number one thing that women desire is a sense of safety and security. The number one thing men desire is approval. So if you tell him to do something and he thinks you're attractive or interesting and wants to make things work, then he'll be compelled to do it in order to gain that approval.

Seeing as you want him to take the reigns, tell him to do something that puts him in the dominant position and forces you into the submissive one. That can be something as simple as telling him to ask you to dance -notice I said make him ask you to dance, that way you are giving him the lead role - then make yourself more submissive seeming than you were initially, so that he sees you aren't going to continue controlling the interaction. You can do this during conversation as well by getting him to tell you about something he's really passionate about and reducing the amount that you talk, while showing lots of attention to encourage him to keep going; this is the same technique that many men use on women once they are in rapport in order to get them invested in the conversation.

Sigh...if only there were more women interested in this stuff, I'd love to teach more women.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

(Quoting the Wiki article)


Is that irony or what?! Hahaha.
i mean cmon, that's the typical guys response when they're frustrated with women.
I never knew it goes both ways!

Well, im glad we have women on this forum...or anywhere else for that matter.

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Whether you think you can, or whether you think you cant, you are right.
H. Ford

I love it when girls approach me and pick me up.
I would say it depends on the guy really. Some guys must be in control and by a girl approach them they loose that control.

Good points rye. In the past if a guy didn't assume the dominant role I would back off and go meet someone else. Part of me wishes they will step up and take that role because that would show they are naturally more dominant and used to acting like that....but I suppose I could give some of these shy boys a chance and give them better openings to take the reigns.

Nothing turns me on more when I'm just chilling out with a beer and a girl next me to goes "Hey, I'm ____, What's your name?"

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I'm addicted to facing my fears.

I don't think about who opens who as I don't see that as so important. I have had countlessly of girls opening me. If I go into a group of people and start a conversation I don't think hey that is a girl and that is a guy but instead this is a group of people and what do we have in common. If there is nothing then it was nice talking to them and get to know them and I continue forward. Girls start to talk to me without problem. Then there are times when I have walked by a girl and she grabbes my arm and say Hi, come and speek with me or us if it is several girls. This can be not so beautiful girls and it can be very beautiful girls that do this. Then there could be that they start touching me or in some way try to get my attention to speek with them.

Do you guys really think like Stormy told about guys and this "England" thing. I would have started talking to her because she started talking to me. It's in my mind obvious that she wanted to talk so why not talk and lets see were we go from there.

I really should have spotted that when it happened. I realized what she was doing about fifteen minutes too late.

_________________
http://www.makeherchaseyou.com/ <- Free 10-Day Bootcamp from Herbal
http://www.bristollair.com/outer-game/s ... ibing.html <- Tyler Durden on Vibing
frame-control-defining-reality-and-bei-vt34530.html

I don't know if this is just because of my ego or not, but I always feel disappointed in myself if I get any sort of success after a girl approaches me instead of me approaching her.

I'm the guy. Let me take the risk of rejection. It's just natural and it gives me more of an opportunity to display masculine essence.