The issue here is that the way all of the traditional gurus teach was good for creating what people believed they wanted some years ago... which is what we would now call a social robot... no real emotions, calibration, spontaneity etc... those things where considered dangerous because they were unproven... Those types of things were reserved for naturals because they have that "special something" and no one seemed to understand what it was.

Fast forward a few years and after an evolution of things being considered the "pinnacle" of game... (On this very forum I have seen it go from MM to MM but you write your own canned lines to a MM style with an emphasis and a positive lifestyle for more assumed DHV to MM with an acceptance for shuffling some of the stages of the M3 and so on until now) Now the "Pinnacle" is so called "natural game".

The issue with "natural game" is that your trying to become similar natural however the community has thus far as a whole refused to do away with the old teaching model... which is a model which is basically designed to teach you things in the order of what has been progressively more en vogue the last couple of years... The problem with that is natural is 100% different then unnatural... It's like becoming a chess grandmaster first, because your goal is to be a great checkers player... There are a few things that will help you and that you need to learn either way that's true... however there will be many many more things you need to unlearn.

If what you wish is to naturalize your self DO NOT study a highly structured method or anything indirect... if your goal is to become natural those will do you more harm then good. If you want to be natural there are just a few basic social concepts you will need to start with... Open with anything, a comment, a genuine question or some variation of "Hello" tend to work well for starters. Next understand that she probably wont talk much until you hit a decent subject... to do that you can make observations, ask questions and make statements about your own interests. Last of the basic social skills you need is closing.. don't be afraid to close, if she looks at you in a way that makes you think "does she want to kiss me? I think she might" then go for it... for # closes just use something you 2 talked about in common, mention that you should go do whatever it is regarding that interest and ask for her number/email/PObox/whatever you want to use to get a hold of her. Got it? Good you now have all the social skills you need to do better then 99% of traditional PUA's ever will... well so long as you go about the next and more important part correctly.

You see the most important part of being natural goes on in between your ears. Again its a matter of conditioning the traditional method of teaching in this community has been about gaining confidence through external validation and approval... you #/k/f closed her atta boy! But the thing that differentiates someone who is natural from someone who is not on its most entry level is their validation system... You must ask yourself "why?" and be honest with your answers... if your not willing to be brutally honest with yourself then don't bother trying to have natural confidence... its an absolute requirement no exceptions. When we're honest with ourselves and ask ourselves "why?" we do/want/feel certain things or ways we will soon begin to understand where we really are in our lives and also our true motivations on a deeper level then most ever will... when you have that your ready to set off down the path of never ending improvement or as the Japanese call it Kaizen... which is basically small but continual improvements made day after day.

I'll make some more in depth posts on how to bolster your confidence/inner sense of worth... but really if you focus in the right direction (validation and interactions coming from the inside) and focus on emotional growth and understanding more then logical then you should see amazing strides.

This whole process of it taking many months or years of work and still most never even get to anything remotely natural is absurd... Do it right the first time so you don't have to spend months unlearning things it took you months to learn... there's no reason with a bit of application and taking the right direction that you can't move from "AFC" to Natural in as few 1-2 months... it barely takes longer then the time to create a couple positive habits in all honesty,

I think...

To be a naturally, you just have to be witty, confident and know what girls want to hear.

I don't think it requires much other than that.

You could learn the game, to become a natural, cuz instead of focusing on the canned material just get a gyst of what you wanna do with your material and do it yourself on the spot.

I must say that I'm quite dubious about all this going straight for a natural style game without first doing some more structured method.

My first objection is that of evidence: where is the evidence that this is actually possible ? - how many proficient PUAs out there actually did not try any structured PUA before they went on to a more natural style game ?.

Also we have to remember that women are not changing so, for example, the foundations of the Mystery Method will ALWAYS have some validity so long as woman have a certain set of social responses and behaviour (which are the same ones they have had since long before the dawn of civilisation ...).

My second objection is that it doesn't fit into how people generally have to learn new skills: learning pretty much anything requires that you de-construct it first and practice the component skills in isolation (concious competence) and then eventually reconstruct it so it all flows "naturally" (unconscious competence).

Its a bit like a veteran classically trained violin player handing his violin to a kid and telling him to forget all those scales and stuff and "just play" and "use their ears", yeah it might work for the top 0.01% of the absolute most gifted students, but the other 99.9% percent will evoke a few horrible screeching noises and give up in frustration.

(s)

The evidence is there... many people have become naturals without the help of this community, and in my work as a life and dating coach I have personally aided many of my students to follow this same path.

For the second part, your right about the way people generally learn things... but your focusing on the wrong part. If what you want to do is become natural you need to understand that it's completely different then method based game... to use music it would be more like wanted to learn to play the drums... so you decide to become a classical violinist...

Your focusing on things like what to say, how to react, how to hold yourself. All of these things are the superficial manifestations of what is going on in your mind... insted of learning to ignore your impulses to do/say/react the "wrong" or "AFC" ways and to insted use the "right" or "PUA" ways... why not just change the thought processes that cause those reactions? It's like a plane whose auto-pilot crashes almost without fail... you could always manually override that auto-pilot (ignoring your belief systems) or you could fix the damn auto-pilot so that it flys right... Also this is the difference between what I'm talking about and "natural game"... "Natural game" has been the new rage lately where you start structured and eventually you get so used to it that it feels natural to you... thats basically like manually flying the plane... but doing it for so long that you can do it without much thought...

Change your perceptions change your life... if natural is what you want, then focus on the causes not the symptoms.

The Doctor, great post...

I have just posted in more detail on how to change your belief system...and be that 'natural'

I'm going to quote Aristoteles on a major rhetorical subject regarding public interactions:

- Ethos (Your reputation and genuinity), Logos (Appealing to logic), Pathos (Appealing to feelings)

This is essentially everything you will ever need in order to be successful in any public manner. The reason why most people learn stacked material I believe is in order to bring up their Ethos. If they feel confident with the material they'll stick to it. I don't necessarily see this as a bad way of learning as it gives you a concrete path that you can follow. The only thing I see different by stacking and "natural" gaming is the paths you take to meet the goal.

The goal will however be to gain all the three principles of rhetoric in order to be an appealing person, and how you do that is entirely up to you. It might however take longer time to figure out how this works, but pick-up should really be a bit more open to the rhetorical sides and not limit the term "game" to two subjects..

Nice post.

And all three of those boil down to altering your belief system. There is no other way to change as a person. Our persona, and the perception the world has of us is purely a reflection of our belief system, nothing more, nothing less.