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Back, starting over as of 2012.

I would say "wingmen" are good when you are first starting out. Main reason being is that you might be unaware of certain things like your body language.

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"To Give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift" -Prefontaine

Not a PUA just a girl offering my opinions/advice

We have videos and books for that I'm sure.

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Back, starting over as of 2012.

If you're not happy to be seen with your buddy, don't take him out (clubbing anyway).

Its the same with women and their social circles. They only invite their hot friends out to have a good looking troupe. They do not invite their older, fatter, non energetic, average looking friends behind as it would lower their groups value.

A simple way to get around this predicament, is to sarge solo........but bring along 5 or more female "pivots".
In order to do this you must ALL have a common (non-sexual) interest, a reason to party and by all means it has to be better than what she currently gets alone when out only with her female friends.
For example you can get into VIP but get charged the door price? She can get Free Entry, Free Champaige, A Reserved Table and an "any time" high five from the bouncer.

I think one day in the not oo distant future guys will realise that their Wingman screwing up is the least of their worries.
Its the fact you are unable to make Social Alliances that are reflective of yourself...................

look impact I'm no expert but as I see it, this reasoning is flawed, because in theory you are NOT doing whatever it is to pick up women. You are doing it to have fun and chill with your friend. The girl must be coincidental in order for this to work. After all, what kind of loser goes somewhere with the explicit purpose of getting laid? And why would you go into a social setting in which you don't actually know anyone? You aren't looking for a hooker, right?

Plus, your wingman/woman is going to meet x amount of girls which you won't meet, and will subsequently get introduced to. And this is primarily a numbers game, so this can be a HUGE advantage.

wow i almost want to start a new thread for this because i dont want to sound like im disagreeing with u and fuck up the topic here. thats what i am about to do.


we'll see if anyone replys to it. but suffice:

i agree with 90% of what u said.

i rarely use wings unless im in town with my good close buddies that i trust. even then i only trust two of them as good wings.

that is my point. your thesis is based on the premise that there is no ideal wingman

thats just not true. its hard to find one but i believe that matador would be great wing for mystery and vice versa.

here is what u need (in my opinion)

a) a guy you trust and know when and has good social skills/decent pua skills. someone who wont change his mind about what he is going to do or say or loose interest in being your wing

b) someone who is alpha male like you, similarly attractive to the ladies, and good skills like i said above. someone with similar high social value

c) there was a third thing but i forgot it lol

basically someone u trust to do what they are supposed to

but i agree it is your journey and dont sell out to anybody. dont NEED anybody. you dont need this forum and u dont need a wing

but they can are iv found are useful tools on your journey. like any personal journy of great reward and challenge, it is very hard to dismiss the assistance of others

however having said all that i think this is a VERY VALUABLE POST!!!

i rarely ever use wings as i said. i go out and have increasingly been able to handle larger and larger groups on my own. with alpha males, maybe three guys and 5 girls

but its hard. a wing can help u. he really can tie up an asshole jelious afc or an asshole AMOG...

they are unnessisary distractions to your preferred route of game and if they can be tied up by your wing why not

i hope what iv said makes sense. and they can give you social proof

however there is something to be said for a guy who is confident to go out on his own. however this is more a day game truth then in the club or bar

at the club or bar people begin to ask why is this guy here

and the reasons arent always good that come to mind

basically a wing can tie up half of the group or an amog.

this isnt something i advocate as a pua or something the people on this site probably advocate but when there is a real asshole amog or a couple douchbag confrontational guys

my buddies sometimes confront them straight up and i play good cop and the girls LOVE IT!