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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:35 am 
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I stumbled upon this forum the other day, and was just reading some of the posts that these other guys were talking about. The creator of this forum posting the following text, I would like for some of you to read and reply to this with you thoughts, as I am doing as well.
Quote:
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE COMMUNITY?

I think is has been little over a year now since I started this website a little more then that since I got into the “pickup community”. I have seen some crazy things and a lot of people transform into new men. Sadly as of lately I have seen some things that have really saddened me and have pressed me into a corner as to what to do with this whole community. I really like the friendships that I have formed with the guys on this board over the last year as well as some of the changes that the community has afforded me over the course of the last year. But as of late I have been finding it harder and harder to defend a community that I had always thought was about making you into a better person.

When I come across posts or articles describing how someone has used what they have learned off the board to use and dehumanize women it really makes me wonder how in the world this idea of bettering oneself got so tossed off course. What once seemed like a good idea is now making me rethink the direction that this board and community is taking.

I know when I talked to the instructors at PU101 they would outright kick people out of the program and refund their money if they came across guys that just wanted to “bang hot chicks”. I know when talking to other established members of the board about this attitude they often respond with a certain kind of disappointment that things have come to that extreme. When topics tend to move more and more in that direction I find it even harder to defend the action of the members whose intentions where once noble. I also understand that there is a learning curve in which people tend to take a darker path and it can often be hard to see the positive aspects with the larger negative. At the same time I don’t see how one really has to be disrespectful to another person just to grow as a person themselves. To me it is similar to being picked on your whole life and growing larger and going out and beating up those who picked on you. How does that help you better yourself as a person? This is exactly what a lot of guys are doing to the women they interact with. For a large portion of their lives they have been over looked and shunned by the women (girls) around them, and now that they have the “social skill” set to attract women they take it too far and “beat up” on those women who have past shunned them.

I do feel this is one of the bigger reasons that some of the older members on this forum have either gone MIA, or have just deleted their accounts. When it becomes less about bettering yourself and learning how to be more social, and turned into about a sex hunt that is where I draw the line. I’m sorry to have to say this but if things keep going in this direction I might have to change some things on the board if not just shut down the site all together.

Kino
This is not the first time I've seen someone post about this, but I felt this time that we should all adress what this guy is getting at, and if we feel he is right/wrong/dumb/whatever. My reply, as wellas some of yours (if you wish) will be posted up onto PUALifestyle.com for others to read and critique. I personally think this guy is over-reacting, and in my reply I will state my reasons why.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:49 am 
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GOOD FKIN POST

KUDDOS MAN,

Moving on to my opinion

Im gonna quote something from Style's book

"Sarging couldn be hazardos to the soul"

********************************************************

Millions of people are now part of this comunity, I'm one of them, not someone who's known worldwise (well maybe a bit for this forum, but not one who wrote a book or anything) and as I read posts day after day, and I compare my beliefs with other people's beliefs, I wonder...

"What the hell did ever happen to 'Pick up'"?

Isn't Pick up meant to pick people up, not only physically but also morally?, to pick them up and make them feel better about themselves, to bring their mood up, but most important to pick up yourself, to make you a BETTER INDIVIUDAL.

'Pick up' instead seems to make people worse than what they EVER were.

Here is a lil scheme that I just thought on how BAD PICK UP progresses.

1. First, you think that if you dont 'pick up' a woman, you're a failure
2. Second, you start seeing women as an object of victory
3. Third, you start seeing women as sex objects
4. You become a social robot, who is nothing like what you used to be when you started

How far are we going?

Some guys learn the 'skills' (very fake skills) that get them laid, and they use it, woman after woman, but they never find the happiness, unless they change.

The other day I read of a guy posting in this very forum an "advice" of PLAYING AND USING this particular woman, WTF IS THAT!? When I read it, I was so upset that I couldn't help to think that hopefully the person in charge of this forum would kick him out!

How does that make you any better?... :(

To be honest with you

At my young age, when I found out about the comunity I was hoping to find a brotherhood, a sane one

And you know what? I've chatted with people on this forum, GREAT GUYS, some email me telling me they would LOVE to sarge with me, others email em asking me questions, and with others of higher level, I just discuss pickup,

But if there is ever one who comes up to me and says "I just want to hit and quit it", he isn't getting any help.

This saddens me badly

It's certainyl a dissapoinment

******************************************

Shit, what can we do?

Some guys are so fed up with the negativity that existed in their lifes before, and now make women feel that way

If there could only be something like a "Scanner for who's a good and who's a bad person"

That would be fkin great

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:12 am 
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/agreed

There will always be those who have become bitter at their rejection. Fourtunatly there are those of us who use it as motovation who take the time to learn how to properly grow into a man. We understand all too well how it feels to be on the receving end of the abuse and rejection, we are better for it. We will always have to deal with those seeking power for personal gain, but we do not have to help them, but if you come across them say somthing about it, mock them for being social robots I dunno.

My introduction to the community was when I read "The Game" about 3 weeks ago, it should be required reading for anyone considering pickup aside from the "omg you can do that" factor. Learning that if you do not keep perspective you will lose everything and gain nothing

heres somthing I found about on the net it's my goal to be a PUA that embodys these principles

put off by PUAs at first. But after she met more, including two from San Francisco, she wrote a letter to the Village Voice defending them, in response to the paper’s negative article on the subject in March. “PUAs try to create a fun, positive, and exciting experience for the woman,” Dolly wrote. “The credo many follow is ‘Leave her better than you found her.’ What’s so bad about that? That they want to get laid, too? Guess what? Guys have always wanted sex and will continue to want sex. You can’t fault them for finally discovering methods that are successful.

Exerpt from here


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:32 pm 
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My thoughts:

Honestly, I think this guy is over-reacting, him or any of us worrying about who is going to do what with their newly acquired 'skills to game women' is a waste of our time to do what we have entered this community for. Everyone has their own reasons. The guys who just use the training wheels and canned material for a quick easy piece of ass are entitled to their own. Its not really productive for people to consider shutting down forums and leaving the community just because there are negative people around them. There are plenty of good people you can meet, help, and benefit from in the community. Any community or group of people you congregate with, especially but not exclusively in on-line communities will have a huge variety of people. Some assholes, some good guys, some in the middle, some tall, some small, some experts, some newbs, etc, etc. If your here to learn and better yourself, I would expect that you'd be intelligent enough to just know that negativity is everywhere in life, learn to not let it effect you. If we let negative people affect our actions and behaviors we are only limiting ourselves from a world of infinite possibilities.

I have been no angel in the past, I've played out plenty of girls, most likely more than enough for this guy Kino to call me a bad PUA. But I have also done some great things, had some amazing times, met some people that changed my life, and changed some people's lives. We all have in one way or another, thats just the way life is. And I've been accused of dating too many women, but make no excuse for that, I am a person who knows what they want and what they don't. There is nothing wrong with holding strict standards to the people you are truly intimate with, on more levels than a physical.

I'm pretty sure this reply is in rant form, but if ya didn't catch the drift heres an analogy.

Quitting the PUA community because of the actions of a certain percentage of people (even if it is a high one) would be like never driving a car again because some people crash their cars while driving drunk.

I know thats pretty dumbed down, but its pretty early, so thats the best my brain is going to muster up. The logic of that rationality is flawed.

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Amor est Vitae Essentia


Last edited by Methuselah on Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:47 am 
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Great Point

Kudos Methuselah

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:13 am 
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You train a man to use a gun.
He becomes an expert sharpshooter and can drop mofo's from 500 metres.
Now.

He could be the guy who uses his newfound skills to shoot the innocent wildlife that inhabits the forest behind his house and laughs as they bleed.

Or he could be the guy who uses his expertise to defend the human civilisation when the extra terrestrials attack.

But you dont get to choose what he does with those skills its up to him. And why stop teaching people to use guns just because you are afraid they might shoot at people or small innocent baby deer.

Just a metaphor I thought I had to get down. Hope it makes you chuckle.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:22 am 
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hahahahaha Giacomo, thats the metaphor i was looking for.
i was trying to think of one in my post but it was so early.
thank you for clarifying it properly.

kudos guys, everyone really. keep the replies coming.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:11 pm 
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What Giacomo and Methuselah have said basically is.....

"to each his own"

Some have quoted "The Game" and even suggested it as required PUA reading. It should be because it definitly does not avoid the "dark side" of pick up.

I personally have a DESIRE to be moral in my pursuit of HB's I don't want to fclose anyone who doesn't want to be fclosed period. I will occasionally make a poor judgement as will most of us but I think the guiding principle is to leave them better than you found them.

The OP that Methuselah quoted made a good point that is worth reiterating though. Becoming a PUA is really about becoming a better you.

you will never regret developing any of the following lifeskills/attributes

* a better communicator
* a more sensitive male
* a student of social interaction
* how to make others feel great and valued
* a better lover
* a more interesting person
* a charsimatic person
* a person who can make a friend of a stranger.

Later,

Cutter


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 Post subject: my 5 cents
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:51 am 
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First I'm glad we are talking about this. This signals that we really care about the community. The community should not disaper or change just cause some woman got hurt. Yeha some jerks trick a girl into getting in bed with him and then he never call. Well how you think the guys she play with feel whe she never call or worse when she fuck jerks. I mean is not like guys are raping this girls, they go along with the game. For all those gurus out there if a woman does not want to be pick up she is not going to be pick up. The woman know we are playing a game, we just got better at the game and they like that is more of a challenge. That the book "the game" should become a sort of bible that's crazy. I respect style and mystery for that matter, but they did not started this. Ok this that we call game has been going on for ages. Since we man discover we wanted a female we came up with ideas on how to get them. We created all kind of crazy things like goverments, power, economies and even religion to get the females. Some man were better and some got lucky and were teach in their childhood others just did not know. Now the big change is the internet we were able to comunicate with people like us and learn from everyone that's how this whole thing started. The game is a glance at how big and well organize this whole thing is. Finally if you want to better yourself or get laid everynight is up to you. I personally find it more fullfiling to better myself and become the best most happy bamba I can be. But that does not work for all of us, maybe some guys are happy knowing canned lines that get them in bed with the females. For them is about the moment and they don't want to build nothing that last for life. Is cool and let them be. Finally just find what your goals are and use all this knowledge to reach them, maybe when your count goes up you find that you need something more.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:16 am 
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i think that if other people are using their skills for the wrong reason you shouldnt care. you want say what you think but dont try to get everyone to follow you. do what you want and if you dont like what someone else is doing dont do it. and do what you think is right and what you want to do


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:46 pm 
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Quote:
Johnny Soporno - http://wwv.themysterymethod.com/forum/s ... hp?t=24283

A definition of 'Inner Game' for newbies and established Players alike...
A whole lot of wanna-be Players, Pick Up Artists ('PUAs'), and Seducers out there have been rushing into the scene in the last year or so, since The Game was released on the unsuspecting public...

It's tragic to watch as these new entrants into our wonderful Game, instead of ACTUALLY becoming Players, become 'Playas'; instead of Pick Up Artists, they become 'Pick Up Technique Zealots' ('PUTZs'); and instead of becoming Seducers, they become 'Womanizers'.

Ironically, although The Game is CLEARLY a condemnation of the jejune and hollow lives of most of its participants, an amazing number of people appear to have missed this message, instead only being intrigued by the notion of getting laid by hotter/more/any women.

In an effort to prevent spiritual and psychological decay amongst the people whom this community most stands to serve, I am going to attempt to frame things in such a way as to help neophytes and experienced participants alike to evolve into this gradually, rather than rushing in like proverbial fools.

Here goes:

"Inner Game" is a convenient euphemism for having a "Satisfied Sense-of-Self". The more richly developed you are AS A PERSON, the less crafty and manipulative you need to be as a Player, and the less you need to justify that you DESERVE the playboy lifestyle you have chosen.

Once you wrap your mind around this, everything falls into place: Inner Game isn't something you get taught, it isn't something you study - it's something you must EARN!

The irony is, ONLY YOU can award it to yourself.

This Self-Confidence is like Freedom: You must EARN it - it can't be bought, borrowed, or stolen, nor can it be given away.
(When Freedom is GIVEN to you, that's ACTUALLY abandonment. Think about it!)

By earning your OWN respect, and satisfying yourself that you are becoming more fully-realized with each new experience you have, you begin TRULY to like yourself.

We're all looking to live as playboys, but there is nothing innately positive about the 'worthless playboy' stereotype. Oh, it LOOKS like fun, but it's empty and shallow...

The paradigm I recommend alternatively is "Worthy Playboy" and I elaborate on it further now:

To become a 'Worthy Playboy' you must develop yourself as a Renaissance Man; you should endeavour to gain a broad-base of knowledge in areas you believe people who'd interest you will be versed. This will help you to remain interesting to them also; as being interesting is INFINITELY more attractive than being 'impressive'.

As a Worthy Playboy, you should be comfortable and confident enough to carry on conversations with women on subjects you have historically known nothing about, by candidly and sincerely encouraging them to share THEIR insights with you.
NEVER FORGET: Everyone's favourite subject is themselves, and NOTHING makes you more attractive to another person than being INTERESTED in what they have to say. This works for men and women alike - but women are far more impressed when they receive this attention from men (since most men are usually too arrogant to concede they might not know everything... Schmucks.)

A Worthy Playboy is never ashamed of NOT KNOWING, because A) no one can know everything, and B) women will be DELIGHTED that their knowing something you don't isn't intimidating to you - and they will be flattered that you're man-enough to let them teach something to you.
"Know Thyself" said The Oracle, and that was profound advice - FOR SELF-DECEPTION IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.

Introspectively interrogate yourself to discover WHO YOU ARE as you develop - to ensure you haven't lost sight of yourself.

Once you KNOW who you are, you'll know what you'll do.

IF YOU ONLY DO THE THINGS WHICH MAKE SENSE TO YOU, in which you find yourself BOTH cerebrally and emotionally settled, and where your conscience is unperturbed, YOU'LL BE ACTING WITH 'REASONED CONFIDENCE'.

This is the rational way of leading your life - by following these internal guidlelines, you'll NEVER have reason for regret, and no justification for embarrassment, EVEN if things don't work out immediately! (In such cases, dispassionately step back from the experience, return to the plan to see whether the problem was situational or persistant, and modify as-necessary before trying again.)

By proceeding ONLY with Reasoned Confidence, the only guilt you need EVER feel is the guilt of letting yourself down; the ONLY embarrassment, the embarrassment of making the same mistakes over again; the ONLY regret, the regret of not having come to this epiphany earlier.


Promise yourself regularily, "I will never do anything I wouldn't do" - and keep that promise faithfully - your internal consistency and congruency depends on it. Your ethical system should NOT have a 'margin release key' - that is the road to conscious hypocrisy (See "Self-Deception" above) and is nothing less than personal treason.

Explore your world - expand your horizons, develop new friendships with people of high integrity and ethics, and remain true to yourself and your word. Your relationships and your reputation are your strongest weapons in the battle against psychological misery and emotional defeat - make certain they are solid, just, and dependable as best you can.

As you progess, you will become comfortable that ANY PERSON (man or woman) with whom you interact will feel and be better-off for knowing you [even if it's simply because you proved to them that GOOD MEN still exist, and find THEM interesting] and that they will feel better about themselves because they've spent time with you.

What could be a more-attractive attribute to have?

Most of all, YOU MUST BECOME SELF-ACTUALIZED - in other words, you need to find your comfort with yourself based on your confidently and successfully following your own path, and NOT narcissistically through the approval of others.

Permitting yourself to be held-back from progressing because you fear the disapproval of people you don't admire is MADNESS!

Lead your own life, and conscientiously ensure you make all your descisions with Reasoned Confidence, and when you are met with disapproving or taunting jibes from 'the peanut gallery' just take note of it - then

DO AS YOU WILL, and watch as your detractors become your admirers. There's no arguing with success.

Good luck to you all,

I hope you find value in this.

Johnny Soporno
Found this crusing on another forum

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And I will charm, I will slice
I will dazzle, I will outshine them all


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:00 am 
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Alright guys, I'm about to play devil's advocate here. I might lose a couple of "reputation" points (whatever the hell those are; I haven't been here for a while), but I think there are some key points we're missing in the above responses.

We do have a responsibility to the greater good. While we may not be directly responsible for the actions of others, we do have a responsibility to police against actions that reflect negatively on the community. If a young man goes out and picks up a young woman, then never calls her, that's one thing. If a young man goes out and picks up a young woman to degrade and abuse her, that is something else entirely. That young man is not a pick-up artist. That young man is a pervert, and does not deserve to be associated with our community in any way.

Aren't we a community? Don't we deserve representation that puts us in the best possible light?

Should we allow people who abuse their skills and talents to drag the rest of us down? No.

When I see things like Juggler's "Seduction School," I smile. He's teaching men with severe self-esteem issues how to be (and, more importantly, FEEL) attractive to women. That is fucking awesome. That is the pick-up community, right there. Personified.

I'm not going to let some perverted punks cheapen that by calling themselves pick-up artists. They are NOT pick-up artists. They're fucking con-men, and they cheapen my art.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:37 pm 
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Big Kudos to Monkey's post
and kudos to this thread in general :D

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James Bond: No, don't worry, you're not my type.
Vesper Lynd: Smart?
James Bond: Single.


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 Post subject: monkey
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:47 am 
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Monkey you make a good point, but still I think is up to the individual. We cannot police it, we can only promote respect and inner game. Plus woman understand the difference between a seducer and a womanizer so let those guys chose their path.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:58 pm 
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Location: Wherever I lay my girls, that's my home...
Quote:

A definition of 'Inner Game' for newbies and established Players alike...


A whole lot of wanna-be Players, Pick Up Artists ('PUAs'), and Seducers out there have been rushing into the scene in the last year or so, since The Game was released on the unsuspecting public...

It's tragic to watch as these new entrants into our wonderful Game, instead of ACTUALLY becoming Players, become 'Playas'; instead of Pick Up Artists, they become 'Pick Up Technique Zealots' ('PUTZs'); and instead of becoming Seducers, they become 'Womanizers'.

Ironically, although The Game is CLEARLY a condemnation of the jejune and hollow lives of most of its participants, an amazing number of people appear to have missed this message, instead only being intrigued by the notion of getting laid by hotter/more/any women.

In an effort to prevent spiritual and psychological decay amongst the people whom this community most stands to serve, I am going to attempt to frame things in such a way as to help neophytes and experienced participants alike to evolve into this gradually, rather than rushing in like proverbial fools.

Here goes:

"Inner Game" is a convenient euphemism for having a "Satisfied Sense-of-Self". The more richly developed you are AS A PERSON, the less crafty and manipulative you need to be as a Player, and the less you need to justify that you DESERVE the playboy lifestyle you have chosen.

Once you wrap your mind around this, everything falls into place: Inner Game isn't something you get taught, it isn't something you study - it's something you must EARN!

The irony is, ONLY YOU can award it to yourself.

This Self-Confidence is like Freedom: You must EARN it - it can't be bought, borrowed, or stolen, nor can it be given away.
(When Freedom is GIVEN to you, that's ACTUALLY abandonment. Think about it!)

By earning your OWN respect, and satisfying yourself that you are becoming more fully-realized with each new experience you have, you begin TRULY to like yourself.

We're all looking to live as playboys, but there is nothing innately positive about the 'worthless playboy' stereotype. Oh, it LOOKS like fun, but it's empty and shallow...

The paradigm I recommend alternatively is "Worthy Playboy" and I elaborate on it further now:

To become a 'Worthy Playboy' you must develop yourself as a Renaissance Man; you should endeavour to gain a broad-base of knowledge in areas you believe people who'd interest you will be versed. This will help you to remain interesting to them also; as being interesting is INFINITELY more attractive than being 'impressive'.

As a Worthy Playboy, you should be comfortable and confident enough to carry on conversations with women on subjects you have historically known nothing about, by candidly and sincerely encouraging them to share THEIR insights with you.
NEVER FORGET: Everyone's favourite subject is themselves, and NOTHING makes you more attractive to another person than being INTERESTED in what they have to say. This works for men and women alike - but women are far more impressed when they receive this attention from men (since most men are usually too arrogant to concede they might not know everything... Schmucks.)

A Worthy Playboy is never ashamed of NOT KNOWING, because A) no one can know everything, and B) women will be DELIGHTED that their knowing something you don't isn't intimidating to you - and they will be flattered that you're man-enough to let them teach something to you.
"Know Thyself" said The Oracle, and that was profound advice - FOR SELF-DECEPTION IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.

Introspectively interrogate yourself to discover WHO YOU ARE as you develop - to ensure you haven't lost sight of yourself.

Once you KNOW who you are, you'll know what you'll do.

IF YOU ONLY DO THE THINGS WHICH MAKE SENSE TO YOU, in which you find yourself BOTH cerebrally and emotionally settled, and where your conscience is unperturbed, YOU'LL BE ACTING WITH 'REASONED CONFIDENCE'.

This is the rational way of leading your life - by following these internal guidlelines, you'll NEVER have reason for regret, and no justification for embarrassment, EVEN if things don't work out immediately! (In such cases, dispassionately step back from the experience, return to the plan to see whether the problem was situational or persistant, and modify as-necessary before trying again.)

By proceeding ONLY with Reasoned Confidence, the only guilt you need EVER feel is the guilt of letting yourself down; the ONLY embarrassment, the embarrassment of making the same mistakes over again; the ONLY regret, the regret of not having come to this epiphany earlier.


Promise yourself regularily, "I will never do anything I wouldn't do" - and keep that promise faithfully - your internal consistency and congruency depends on it. Your ethical system should NOT have a 'margin release key' - that is the road to conscious hypocrisy (See "Self-Deception" above) and is nothing less than personal treason.

Explore your world - expand your horizons, develop new friendships with people of high integrity and ethics, and remain true to yourself and your word. Your relationships and your reputation are your strongest weapons in the battle against psychological misery and emotional defeat - make certain they are solid, just, and dependable as best you can.

As you progess, you will become comfortable that ANY PERSON (man or woman) with whom you interact will feel and be better-off for knowing you [even if it's simply because you proved to them that GOOD MEN still exist, and find THEM interesting] and that they will feel better about themselves because they've spent time with you.

What could be a more-attractive attribute to have?

Most of all, YOU MUST BECOME SELF-ACTUALIZED - in other words, you need to find your comfort with yourself based on your confidently and successfully following your own path, and NOT narcissistically through the approval of others.

Permitting yourself to be held-back from progressing because you fear the disapproval of people you don't admire is MADNESS!

Lead your own life, and conscientiously ensure you make all your descisions with Reasoned Confidence, and when you are met with disapproving or taunting jibes from 'the peanut gallery' just take note of it - then

DO AS YOU WILL, and watch as your detractors become your admirers. There's no arguing with success.

Good luck to you all,

I hope you find value in this.

Johnny Soporno

I'd recommend printing that out and putting it up someplace you can read it daily. Your shaving mirror, or your fridge-door...

After you TRULY 'get' all the elements, you'll be ready for everything.

JS


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Can we be honest?

We want your email address. Let me send you the best seduction techniques ever devised... because they are really good.
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