There's a few things that I dont like about the Pick up arts.

A lot of guys have the idea that fixing their sexual life will fix everything else. PU is just an expresion of that. Since you can't understand why you dont have a chick, you start either settling for an acceptable self-response (like "I can't get a girl cause I'm not good looking/dont have money). Or you gather courage and start trying to fix things. (either reading or practicing, I strongly reccomend to do both)

A lot of people starts trying to figure out women. That does'nt works so they start figuring out men. And finally they start figuring out themselves.

Most pick up methods encourage this aproach. Why I dont like it?

Because It does'nt solves deep issues and is not the mature thing to do.

Let me ask you a question. Do you have a life that is great, even if there are no women on it? Think about it. If you dont: Why women would like to be on it? And if you introduce girls to a life that is less than great: Do you think women would make that crappy life great?....Women will most likely bring issues of their own.

Maybe a lot of the methods out there will respond to that:

Well, If you dont have a great life: fake it until you make it.

But, why would anyone fake their fulfillment and happiness? Thats just stupid. Its like faking a smile on your parents funeral. I belive that a lot if threads about not enjoying PU or not being on "the mood" have some relationship with this.

About why I dont think starting with understanding women first is the mature thing to do:

I like women, their looks, their personalities...I just love them.

But I dont need them to survive, I dont need them to be happy (Ok...I'm even happier when I have a girl on my arm but I can be happy without one)

There's more good stuff in life other that girls. If you have them, Ok you got that one figured out, but what about the other ones? Like money, success, health?

I go to school with a lot of rich kids (I'm not ) and its interesting how they have just as much drama as the poorest guy in the world... maybe even a little bit more. Their parents dont pay attention to them because they are working all the time, so the kids do stupid stuff to get attention. Parents stop giving attention cause they get tired. Kids feel it and start to do even stupider stuff to get Mom and Dad mad.

So you need to get every aspect of your life taken care of to be happy.

Starting trying to figure out women first helps you get a theoretical knowledge of that field. Like the "what to do" Kind of stuff. But infield stuff is'nt as easy as you could have read about it. And you can easly sabotage yourself, because you dont understand yourself.

Edit: a double re read of the original post leads me to believe that I am infact agreeing with you on this? Watching south park while reading has confused me, redmole im sure you can clear if we are on the same or oppostie page.

Becoming a PUA doens't just improve your interaction with women in fact for some that just turns out to be a side effect.
On a level for the socialy shy it actually increases their general health. Lets take a look at the definition of health:

Health is a complete state of physical, mental and social well being and not merely the absence of infirmity or disease.

As we know before some members of the community discovered the world of the PUA they did not interact with not only women but other men. Fear of judgement and rejection prevented them from general interaction with others outside of work (and even at work). Now that is just on a general social level.

Many AFCs going to PUAs take a good look at their own personal style, change the clothes they wear, their hair style even take better care of their skin. They look healthier and as a result feel better about them selves.

Physicaly if they are unhappy with their body they look to improve, join a gym , better nutrition possibly join a sports team that previously they felt that they did not have the social skills to do.

People enter the community looking for an improvement, feeling they can be better in a certain aspect of themselves. Joining at many different stages of their lives, with different levels of happiness with thei current lives. As long as the effort is applied then the results are seen.

Hell some people learn the art from psychological intrigue, so to generalise that people do it out of immaturity as a quick fix to understand women, is I feel misguided. And What is so immature about increasing your understanding of the opposite sex?

Absolutely excellent points.

When I first started training to be a PUA, I focused on routines, openers etc.

To be truly attractive to high quality women, you must live a fufilling and exciting life. Make it a reality.

If not, it will be clear after about 20 minutes to whomever you are talking to.

If you are a genuine, fun, interesting, spontaneous person the game will be much easier.

As Stlye once said: Don't be a social robot. Have an awesome life that she would want to be a part of (if she is good enough of course).

The actual action of trying to understand women is not inmature. But trying to understand women before understanding yourself is inmature.

Why? Cause you are trying to fix a problem without really knowing if it is the real problem. A lot of guy want to learn PU not beacause they want to get the hottest girl, thay wanto to get the hottest girl to impress other men. Thats stupid. the problem you need to fix first is your aproval issues first.

You need to know yourself first in order to know if PU is really the thing you need to improve even more.

I believe we both are agreed on the same points that it should be understanding of self before general men before general women.However some join in order to use the understanding of women as a way to understand fellow men and therefore themselves. The later of course may work for some but a general all around improvement of life would be better achieved through the former. I realise that is what you were saying in the original post now, I think.

It's true, you do have to build up your life to a large extent before inviting women to it. Your life has to be bigger than women to attract them.

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