Has anyone else noticed that when AFC's become PUA's, they all decide to sell out and charge several thousand dollars for a workshop or conference in which they turn you into the same person as everyone else attending and let you loose on girls who have heard the same techniques over and over from all of the other, past and present, rAFC's?

Style documents it in his book... before going off and doing exactly the same thing.

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"Plan only what you must and live for the present - for tomorrow everything could change." - Personal Motto.

I agree 110%!

If you go Venusian Arts fourms you will read about many bootcamp reviews of people saying similar things; many people are complaining about having left MM boot camps unsatisfied.

They are not pick-up artists, they are merely mocking a superior breed (naturals). A true pick up artist doesn't need materials or canned lines because they understand on a core level what attracts women. Instead of trying to take the time to teach students how to change and express their own personality so that they can be an attractive person naturally 100% of the time they are turned into pathetic Mystery clones.

We should not have a problem with overused openers and DHV stories - it is rediculously easy to come up your own once you get the concepts down. You recall in The Game how unhappy and miserable all of them wound up - they are nothing more than AFCs who know how to fake an attractive personality and got fucked over for their arrogance.

One of the biggest issues I have with them is that they recommend countering one-itis with more sarging. Men and women do connect on an emotional level - it makes us human; we can't counter an emotional void with more sex. They are not interested in teaching students techniques that would make them totally self-reliant because they would lose business and wouldn't have people crawling back to them.

And change several to seven - they're getting more greedy and less caring.

- Chris

They teach the basics and its up to the person to use the outline to come up with the final draft.

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"To Give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift" -Prefontaine

Not a PUA just a girl offering my opinions/advice

I totally agree Killians. You can't expect someone else to teach you how to be a natural. Being a natural is all about yourself. People can tell you what you need to do to improve you're life, but you have to be the one to actually do the work.

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Men fall in love with their eyes. Women fall in love with their ears.

I noticed this too. But why not turn a profit from some thing thats in super high demand? Why not sell out an entire community that has accepted you and helped you for god knows how long? Personally it really burns me when people do that shit. Sure your helping, but at the expense of peoples wallets, and dare I say a lifestyle.

A lot of us don't run workshops just to make a buck, but because we don't have the time to work a full time job, as well and there is money to be made in this, so we focus our energies on it and are compensated accordingly.

The goal isn't to make clones or ourselves, I know that most of us loathe having guys use the same lines we just used while showing them how to run a set. The idea is to teach the theory, show them that they have the ability to be who they really want and who they really are inside, then help them become who they are, instead of modeling them after you.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

He calls them social robots or something, but you're exactly right. Style himself becomes a natural, but in his wake he makes assloads of Style clones.

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No retreat. No surrender.

Style never meant to make clones of himself. People idolized him so much that they looked at him for everything instead of looking within themselves. They wanted what style had, so they copied him. He didn't teach them how to be style clones.

Style became a natural because of all the effort he invested into himself. Others can do this too. They just need to take all the information they read and learn and put it into practice to make it their own instead of someone elses.

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Men fall in love with their eyes. Women fall in love with their ears.

I think the people who turn into the clones are the joke. If you are that pathetic to reject yourself and try to be someone else, or even worse if you cant help that from happening, then I feel really sorry for the women they deceive.

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I'd rather go out swinging than strike out looking.
A lifestyle is a terrible thing to waste.
What I say when I see her is what I'll say.

As Rye Lee said--there are people who are doing this full time to make a living, so they have to charge some amount of money to make a living and keep their skill set improving.

What I would like to see is some organization that sets up some system to accredit instructors. I would also be nice if people actually started being required to take psychology courses.

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Lo' there do I see My Father.
Lo' there do I see the line of My People, back to the beginning.
Lo' they do call to me, they bid me take my place among them.
in the Halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live forever.