When ever I try to use these PUA tactics, I get called arrogant. I noticed that good looking men have attraction initially, until they open their mouths. I have shot myself in the foot many times by running attraction material, even when she was attracted already. Foolish me.

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Stay hungry, stay foolish- Jobs

Calibration ....

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http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

Sounds to me like your game just sucks. I'm an above average looking guy, I don't seem to have any issues when I open my mouth.

I do fine without thinking too much about PUA..

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Stay hungry, stay foolish- Jobs

No need to get defensive, though the issue may not have been tactfully phrased.

A lot of stuff in the umbrella of pickup material gets misinterpreted. Guys read about C&F and never know when to turn off the arrogant persona. Guys read about negs and think it's all about teasing women. Guys read about being "alpha" and act like jerks or bullies. THere's a ton of information being provided and the majority of it is BS. From a research prospective, the best thing to do is find as many different viewpoints as possible and try everything. Enough experimentation will show what works and what doesn't.

Sparknotes version: you're probably going a little too far with some of the basics or using them when they aren't necessary. It's not the looks factor.

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These hos ain't loyal

You do fine "without thinking too much about PUA", but don't do fine when you do think about it?

What do you think "PUA" is?

It's not one thing. It's not a certain way of saying things or a certain way of acting. It's about being good with women. It's about becoming the most confident and best you that you can be. It's about having the frame to be able to not get fazed by beautiful women and engage them in conversation regardless of their looks. It's about being able to escalate from a conversation to the bedroom - many ways of doing that.

If you suck when you "think about PUA" it's because you're one of the many people who think about pick up completely wrong.

I'd wager that when you "think of PUA" you're just using canned lines/overthinking/not acting natural. Girls smell that BS from a mile away. When you don't overthink, you're more natural and less of a BS'er.

Game is same fot everybody. You have to find your personal style and what works the best for you. Try and Fail multiple times until you succeed. Like they- say fake it till you make it

game is just short for game plan, every guy has to come up with his own game to suit his own personality and style as well as tailor it to suit his goals, not every guy wants the same thing, different tastes in women, different relationship goals this is mostly the same for every guy regardless of how he looks, how popular he is, or how wealthy he is

girls are also people, each one is different from the next, there is no one thing you can do to get every girl you ever meet to sleep with you, they all have different tastes and different personalities

if you are getting these sort of reactions think about why, become aware of how you are making others feel, how you present yourself is how others will perceive you, what you think you are and what you present to others is not necessarily how they interpret you, become more mindful of your behavior and how it effects others, forget some set amount of pua rules that you can easily misinterpret and try to find a winning strategy that gains respect and admiration, that is the goal, you want girls to like and trust you enough that they are interested in starting some sort of relationship with you,

I suggest you just take some responsibility for what you want and don't rely on the girl to do anything, just make it all happen, you go first and trust in your decisions and what you would like, if you don't know what you want then you have to figure out who you are and what you want to accomplish in life in regards to anything so that you can actually come up with a good ''game'' plan to reach those ends

This may be a cynical answer, but in my opinion, good looking guys don't really need a game plan. The pick up arts is generally about raising your value to match those with high value (in our western culture - good looking people). And this is by either working hard to raise your own value, or decrease the value of the target.

Basically, good looking guys are already perceived as high value, so really all they need to do is not say anything stupid (lower their value). An attractive guy can make twice as many mistakes as an average or below average looking guy and still get away with it. It's kind of unfair, but that's how our culture is. That's why you see attractive guys at bars and clubs acting like total douchebags, but still get the girl.

Again I might sound cynical, but there is a point to this. This is why it is so important to convey high value right from the start, especially in your outer-game. If you approach a set in your basic everyday clothes, poor posture and body language, you'll be perceived as low-value. And although you can dhv and build your value up in set, it will take a lot to erase that first impression. So if you fuck up, chances are the set will have their first impression confirmed, and you're out.

If you come in with the look of a high-value person, it's a lot easier to keep that value, from my experience.

I think what you say about good looking people getting twice as many "chances" is probably true-ish, Benjy. But it's the same for any factor. It's just that this particular factor is 'good luck' in that they haven't had to do anything to get it, they were just born handsome.

But if you're very rich, you'll get more chances to get away with saying something stupid than someone who's broke. If you're very talented at something (playing an instrument perhaps), you'll get more chances to get away with saying something stupid than the bloke in the pub who has got no skills whatsoever. If you're funny and the life of the party, you'll get more chances to get away with saying something stupid than the shy quiet bloke.

That's not to say that any of those other guys hasn't got a chance. But, before anyone has started speaking to the girl, they are at a disadvantage because the good looking/rich/talented guys have got the more outwardly OBVIOUS 'value'. You can tell someone's good looking before they've spoken. You can - usually - get an idea of how well off someone is by the car they drive, the watch they wear, that sort of thing. If you're watching a band you see the members playing the instruments.

The trick to take from this, of course, is that everyone has something which can make them high value. It's a matter of finding out what yours is. If you look in the mirror and you aren't gorgeous then figure something else out which you can bring to the table.

alright... girls say I'm a handsome guy. And because I am, every time I approach, they have a stereotype of myself that I sleep with a different girl every night. They think I am a fucking player. Damn! I wish I was.
But no! Truth is I haven't had sex for 4 months now. So they build a stronger wall with me, and because I am newbie (two weeks) in the game, I struggle even more. In fact, I see that uglier guys are not confronted to that wall I get, and engage conversation much easier. Now yeah... probably my game still suck.

Ugly guys getting conversation doesn't mean they are getting laid... You might be too passive. Them thinking you are a player in general will NOT hurt your game, it only helps.

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http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

Looks give you a minor advantage as in approach invites come your way more often. Also it gives you a little play room to make a few mistakes before they blow you out. Thats about it for most girls.

If your worried about your looks it is very easy to warp. what do you think girls do with make up, clothes, high heels and implants. Look at girls who just woke up. most if not all don't look very attractive.

If you want to improve yourself in the looks department. Groom yourself well, hairstyle, good clothes and even a little jewelry. And you don't have to spend a fortune getting any of this. Most important part is to have a consistent and true sense of style. If your a rocker dress like a rocker, or a clean business guy = suit and tie.

All of this isn't necessary but it will improve your chances. There are guys out there who can pull ass while looking like shit

I am passive, yes. The problem is I all the time arrive at a point where I don't know what to say. Sometimes the girl is talking so it is good for me, but because she is talking I am not leading the conversation and that is kind of DLV. I'd rather know what to say rather than being good looking, because at the end of the night, all these guys that talk and talk and talk: they have their attention. I want this.

I don't want to troll this topic with my stuff. So here my topic (about my personal improvement) where I am talking about how to fix this issue (listed as #2): post814278.html#p814278

If you have any recommendation for me, please don't answer on here and answer on there.


To come back about this topic: I think the subject is closed and the answer is:

Good looking men have a minor advantage, however if they don't know how to use it: they just end up by screwing all opportunities.