Pick Up 101 . . .

The request for a verbal confirmation definitely belongs in the top 10 list of pick up mistakes. It must be common as it appears on this forum often, "We're boyfriend/girlfriends, right?"... "I like you, you like me?"

^This mistake is closely related to the 'announcement' mistake. "I will do this. I will do that. I am this. I am that.". . . "I'm going to kiss you now." . . or perhaps even, "Maybe I'll kiss you later."

When's the last time you heard a man request from a waiter at a restaurant, "Surprise me." No . . . men don't go with the unknown. Are you kidding? We don't flow with feelings. We're all about contracts. We want confirmations. We want to agree on things and then we want to shake on it. Unfortunately, problems surface when we seek contracts from non-logical, non-contractual beings; especially so when we seek contracts with the matters of the heart.

I am not a woman so I cannot express exactly what goes in their brains but it goes something like this: Women believe that their brains don't make decisions but rather their hearts. Ha. Ha. Ha. Yes, it's as if they believe that decisions to kiss, hug, or even have sex cannot be made with their brains but rather OVERCOME through passion and desire from their hearts. In no cheesy romance novel does the female heroine work out her sex session through logic, "He told me that he might kiss me later. Since I am not doing anything later, I felt that this was a good idea and told him that I would allow him to kiss me. This will probably lead to sex so I will make sure that I wear my clean underwear." - Sounds sensible yes. . . but if you want a glimpse of how women really go through this process, go read a page out of those silly romance novels.

If you're a man, ^this might seem bizarre or even confusing but the good news is that you do not need to understand it. Instead, all we need to do is accept that this is the way of the woman and jive with it accordingly.

I feel identifyied, to say the least.

The biggest problem I share with these contract men is that I DO want to understand women logic. To me knowing the steps they follow is not enough, I want to understand the why behind it.

I haven`t posted anything yet towards my last field report, but girl`s gone gold cold on me; I pushed for another date and she rejected. I`m done talking.

Most of the times I blame it on me, I know there is something I`m not doing right / not doing at all; but it`s true that I feel I made some progress. At least now I`m out of my comfort zone.

Let me ask you this: How can a 24/ 7 logical men turn that part of his brain off for the time shared with women?

I ask for more on the understanding on women pshycology because I honestly believe that this is the only way I can shut down my logical brain and start using my emotional one. It`s not an actual shut down in my head, rather than a different angle on things.

This will sound as a lame excuse; but my logical brain got me far in life. I trust it fully, but I will always admit that if I keep doing what I`m doing around women with this line of thinking I`m going to end up alone.

It`s been more than 3 years since I ended my last long term relationship, so I forgot how it feels to think non logically towards women.

Once again, thank you.

good post.

Wouldn't it be 'logical' to do and say things that will eventually get you laid?

There are several variations of these three tactics but almost everything you see and hear in PU will fit into one of the three.

I. The Super Contract Man.

I haven't been following the forum much lately but a great majority of members here probably fit into this category. Sure, they claim they're being sexual and teasing but to me, it's just a hard sell approach to the same ol' AFC contract seeker. They talk about sex. They compliment sexually. They suggest sex constantly. It's as if they wish the World to view them as one big gonad. They suggest in this forum that if you do not do this, girls will toss them into the "friends category". . . absolutely not true. Does it work? Apparently so. . . but so does begging for sex if you really, really work at it.

II. The Reverse Contract Man.

Similar but certainly more creative and interesting is the reverse contract. You bring up sexual topics, dating topics, relationship topics . . . but instead of requesting for a positive contract (Let's do it), you suggest for a negative in a teasing way. Example: "I'll have you know. No sex on the first date. Never, ever." . . . "Woh, slow it down girl. I'm old fashioned." - My guess is that the guys who naturally do this probably always had success with girls. Being unavailable, either due to current girlfriend(s) or always being busy with work/fun events tends to attract even more women. And successful guys have figured this out by experience. So they just exaggerate their existing situations. Great fun when girls play along.

III. The man.

I remember suggesting in a post while back that I almost always don't even talk about sex. There is no proposition. There is no suggestion. I believe that a few members suggested that I was a fraud and this is impossible.

Whether it's a ONS or a 2nd date, you just behave like a man. Since there are no obvious words spoken or obvious behaviors that can be described, all I can suggest is that you simply treat the girl as if you've been married to her for a year and sex on a free night after spending time together is an expected reality. You don't grovel. You don't do the masturbating monkey act. You don't test her, "So, what are you doing later?". You're not thinking of the opportune time to sneak a kiss; you don't have to steal one. If you feel like a kiss, you bring her in and kiss her. Walking her home = sex. Sharing a taxi = sex. The double hand/arm grab around your arm definitely = sex. Having a blast = sex. Going OUT TOGETHER = sex. Don't ruin a good thing by opening your mouth.

I thought this article was worth contributing to support Kasabi's advice.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evo ... otic-women

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My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

Have you ever seen something you like in a store, thinking about buying it and suddenly changing your mind, and decide to better not buy it?
In case it has happened, is it ALWAYS the case that the product itself make you change your mind? Or probably you changed your mind because some other factors? (the cue to pay is to long, you forgot your credit card at home, you realize that you did not need the product so you better safe your money for something else, you are doing good so far without the product, so there is no need to buy it, etc...)
The product many times has very little to do in your decision taking and not wanting to buy it doesn't mean that you do not like it.
You are the product here is not always your fault, many people(specially women) go to the department stores love to try out a lot of things that like without the intentions of buying anything, and it is not the fault of the D&G shoes for not being bought that day.
You are trying to hard, life and seduction is not a contest where the winner is the one who takes more girls into bed... don't you think it can actually be her job to turn on your emotional brain and turn off your logical one, and not yours?

Based on my experiences, women initiate the verbal contract. "What are we?" "Can you be my boyfriend?" "If/when we get married..."

Sometimes, I see a few threads in here where a few guys wanted to verbalize the "contract" between a man and a woman; using women speake along the lines of, "So are we boyfriend and girlfriend already?"

I can't really say that this "PU mistake" of verbalizing things with a woman is really that common. The more common PU mistake is more along the lines of gender role reversal where men want to play the part of women instead of sustaining dominant, virile, masculine vibes. Many men have been socially conditioned to act effeminate and emotional nowadays instead of being masculine and logical which are the main traits that really attract feminine women.

In my opinion, being sexual (textually or verbally) has nothing to do with formalizing 'things' with women. Sexual innuendos are a different category. Sexual innuendos are masculine tools that make women wet along with other techniques.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

Worldrunner I see your point, and it`s actually a great one!

I understand what you mean, I`m being too hard on myself over one girl; and God knows this was only ONE experience. I can`t make a rule out of one single girl, but also I`ve been fucking it up on my last dates ( of course, separated by months).

The only good thing I take out of that date is my hunger for more practice, for more dates, for more women.
But is is really that bad to ask oneself: what am I doing wrong here? What can I learn out of this girl?

I always thought that was the correct approach on things in order to improve and become a better man.

To kasabi: What I was asking you actually was a step by step on how to be a man on a simple date.

I enjoy your refreshing approach of the man, the third one; assuming things are going to happen puts the mind at ease.

I have tryied that approach once, but my problem is I kinda not pull the trigger when the moment is correct.
I assume things are going to happen by themeselves, like unfold before my eyes, but truth is I go back to my place empty handed and haven`t given it a single shot, simply because I thought to myself: "Meh, things will happen, I have little to no control over that so I just might let it unfold before me."

In my experience that makes me comfortable, puts me at ease, but doesn`t give me results.

Can you elaborate a bit more on the man focus of pick up? Out of the three models, that`s the one that attracts me the most.

Thank you guys.

Three concrete words to make the 3rd frame work Bond-007: "Let's go." Assume the frame and your body language will showcase what's going inside your mind. "Let us go." is the trigger sentence that lets the girl know the deed is going to happen-- tactfully. There are several variations to "Let's go." of course. While the body language/nonverbal aspect is the crucial part of the pull, formalizing things with "Let's go." will shoot up your results.

Kasabi's second frame doesn't work for me though. It's inefficient and prolongs the f-close based on my personal experiences.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

To sum things up from my perspective the golden rule is to assume the attraction and be totally congruent with it and act accordingly. Emotions are very contagious and if your frame is stronger than hers she will drop into it.

I've sarged with some pretty impressive PUA's in my time and the one trait which they all possessed was a delusional belief in their ability to pick up girls. The delusion eventually became the reality.

This made me think of Will in the Inbetweeners movie, that's a perfect illustration of the mentality you're talking about

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If something's not fun, it's not worth doing

I should have clarified. Women absolutely do this when it comes to relationships and identity of relationships. (Refer to the article linked by artfulroger)

However, in terms of setting up fuck dates and fuck sessions, ABSOLUTELY NOT.
^This is a more creative version of the Super Contract Man. Does it work? It must.
Again, refer to the article linked by artful roger. If ^this were true, the 'boss', the 'knight', or the 'cowboy' in those romance novels would tell sex jokes all night long. The writers of these novels would allow their male characters to go off on their sexual monologues. "You make me horny . . . You have a hot ass. . ." - However, this would turn their romance novels into slapstick comedies. This brings up another common PU mistake:

Men cannot seem to understand that the woman (or a man) standing in front of them is NOT another version of themselves. They think if it makes them happy, it must make others happy. If a joke is funny to them, it must be funny to others. They think if they get turned on by a porn scene where 5 dudes jack off into a big mouthed chick, so must others. "Hey! It turns me on to talk about how horny I am and how I'd love to play out a role in a porn flick. . . anybody else game?"

@melodical I'm sure some people assume anything and everything and dig, dig, dig. However, attraction isn't an on off switch. It builds; it grows. I bet that the people you've seen who were very successful at it 'assumed that attraction can and will build'. This is a completely different mindset than 'attraction is already there'. One is absolutely true. The other is, as you suggest, delusional. One allows you to have fun with it, listen, and allow a bond to develop. The other gives a green light to dig away.

I still think that the best analogy I can provide is that of a married couple. Married couples do not automatically fuck every night. They have good nights and they have bad nights. They have days when they don't want to see the other. They have nights when they want to fuck . . . usually, these nights are preceded by fun times with each other. Just have fun. Connect. Chat about fantasies. . .

007. Not to be a PU snob but the 3rd is tough. I think you can see from the response of others that this 'style' basically comes from experience. Younger kids plow and beg. "Let's do this. Let's do that. Let's go here. Let's go there. let's do this and that." - then you realize that pushing and pulling isn't the most effective way to influence others. The best salesmen in the World makes YOU feel as if you made the decision to buy, not that you were coerced to do so.

Whenever I jot down ideas, I often paraphrase, "In no particular order . . ." But in this instance, there is a reason I ordered the things as I did. I do believe that this is the order of the typical PUA's realization. First he gets laid by pushing, pushing, pushing. This is really a close tactic to begging. Beg enough and you get whatever you want. The second is more of a pull. . . being unavailable. . . yeah, playing the typical hard to get (even in jest) And guess what, you still get laid, with a lot less groveling.

Then I would hope that most guys realize that it doesn't really take much of any of that. Simply be the man the woman wants/hopes/dreams/fantasizes you to be. Be the stronger person. Be patient. Guide her. Listen to her. Cut her off if she needs it. Correct her if she needs it. . . not out of spite or anger but because you know it is right. Women will respect you for that. Show her a great time. Take care of her. Touch her. Hold her. Be a man. She will be a woman.

I think you have missed the point of artfulroger's link by several hundred miles. I have been linking the same article series in several of my posts too. An example is here: pua-intermediate-finance-vt163943.html

The erotic romance novel is women's porn and women spend a lot more money on online porn than men.

Do women set up fuck dates with verbal contracts? ABSOLUTELY YES. They do but not all.
No.
Again, I think you have missed the point of artfulroger's link by several hundred miles. Men get their dicks hard by watching men's porn while women get their pussies wet by reading (or watching) women's porn.

When I sarge, I word my sexual innuendos using erotic romance novel verbiage using the same principles from that Psychology Today article series.

"You make me horny . . . You have a hot ass. . ." are masculine porn verbiage. Women's porn verbiage are a lot more different.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

^Are you trying to be ironic?

It seems you're taking things a bit personally but I have nothing against the horny masturbating monkey act. And if you read the initial post more carefully, you might realize that I grouped your act with the "It Works" section. And it works especially well with younger guys because women pretty much assume that young kids don't have anything going for them other than a boner. Women expect younger kids to be thinking about sex all the time. You just play the role. . . not a big deal.

The point of referencing the "romance novels" is a suggestion to become the male characters of those novels. Women fantasize over the male characters in those novels, NOT the guy in the book store who reads those novels out loud.

“Everything in the world is about sex except sex. Sex is about power.” - Oscar Wilde

To Bond 007:
Asking that is completely natural, we all do that and is not very helpful, here is why:

--- What am I doing wrong? ---
It presupposes that you are doing something wrong.
You see the date as a kind of match or competition where if you do not get the girl to do or become what you want you loose. (we can't control our own impulses, thoughts and actions 100% of the times, but you expect that as a winner you gain complete control over the other person? , very common in all of us, but kind of sick isn't it? )

--- What can I learn out of this girl? ---
It presupposes that you are not seeing her as an object(which is already bad), but as a tool to become the ultimate girl controller.
Do you think that is the right way to see and treat another person? If she could have this special power to see your intentions for her, do you think it would be wise for her to fall for you?

Here are some useful questions:
did you enjoy the date?
did anything funny that you can tell to friends or grandchildren happened during the date?
while interacting with the girl did she told something funny, insightful interesting, etc? (if not be grateful that there wasn't a second date)