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Hi guys,
Lately I've noticed a divergence in theory in the community about the traditional PUA "Never pay until you get sex."
The general consensus I seem to get these days, based on my experience and a ton of friends' feedback, is, that'll get you dropped like 3rd period French. The problem is so many of us watched the VH1 show and read this in all the books, but could never pull it off, hence, they never hear back from the girl.
Don't listen to your friends.
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Let's say, theoretically you propose to hang out as a first meet; she suggests a bar or restaurant. You're cool with that. Then the check comes out.
She offers to pick up her side, awesome! Accept it.
You'd be surprised of the fury this illicits from guys who *STILL* would say "you were setting up a provider frame"
^ is best to avoid that type of situation, you do not want to come across as a cheap ass, this is coming from a cheap ass... I gave you a link on the why you do not want to do traditional dating...
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Uhhh, how? She drives to the place, meets you there, pays for her own alcohol and food. How are you being a supplicating beta provider here? I just don't get it. There appears to be a disconnect, or ridiculous attempt to shove the square peg of reality into the round hole that is their pet theory.
^ that is good...
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Now *on that matter* of the girl paying, it has been said that if a guy allows a girl to pay her half (although she offered) too many times, he will often never hear from her again.
Feedback one may commonly hear from females is along the lines of, "I always offer to pay my half on a first date. If he accepts, I don't necessarely hold it against him, but it does register. If he accepts a second or third time, I begin to worry if there's something bad financially going on with him."
^ don't listen to women do not get into this situations, unless you don't want to get laid.
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Next time the check comes out, try telling the girl you don't pay for a girl's dinner until you've slept together. Let me know how that works out.
^ that shit is stupid, who gave you that advise????
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Better yet, even keep it respectable, and if she asks or scoffs when you tell the server, "We can split it", simply say to her, "Yeeeaaaah, I only pay for girls on dates when I'm in a relationshop." Better, but again, let me know how that works out for you.
^ that is stupid and again who gave you that advise???
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Walking up to random girls and offering them drinks...FUCK NOOOOO! Actually, studies are showing more and more guys are checking out of the nightlife scene in general bc of the lack of women and expense with nothing to show for it. But as for the women, they aren't coming out because they're getting bought drinks by less and less random guys, so they stop going out to bars and clubs.
^ wtf??
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But you get a hot girl out who wants to have drinks with you...
I think it's in your best interest to buy her a few drinks. Now an expensive dinner with very little alcohol, that may be a different story.
Yes!
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But guys have really gotta stop being so hung up on this, "Naaw man, if I pay, I'll be a provider, and then she'll go hook up with a hot drummer later that night."
^ yes that is why you did not get laid last time, remember...
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Don't wanna pay, ever before sex? Okay, just know that girls have so many options these days, and you can be sure she'll be holding hands the next day with some dude who has game AND is paying for dinner.
^ let me guess a dude like you....
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And guess what? He's taking her home and is gonna bone her while you're at home jerking it to the American Apparrel website, all because you were such a cheapskate.
Seems you are talking from experience...
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Adam Lyons, who is of course the god and all time authority on male/female attraction who has ever existed and ever will, even says on his new site. "The old pick up artists have been replaced. The rules have changed in this game."
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Indeed they have. And in this game, you've gotta pay to play.
I will bet any amount of money that you are not getting laid...I was once there myself.
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Hell, even woman-hating RooshV complains about drink prices when you're out with a girl (as in yes, he is picking up the check)
As much as I love RSD Blueprint, Tyler goes too far in going all out to try to dismiss money conpletely; he talks about this one client who said, "Yeah, I'm incredibly wealthy, I meet a girl when I'm out, and take her back to my mansion that night,band suddenly she wants to be my girlfriend and doesn't want to put out. Now she sees me as a provider because of my money, like 'Oh, wait, I'm not that kind of girl...I'm girlfriend material.'"
Horseshit.
Do you know how many panties I've seen dropped in high rise, upscale condos with balconies overlooking rivers and city skylines? 'Nuff said.
God you just don't get it! I will have teevester explain it to you, if you want to get laid you got a change the way you view things... Here:
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"Lover VS Provider" Theory And The M/W Complex
Women are seeking two types of mates – call it different providers. Consider sex being a trade, what you are trading for the sex defines what kind of provider you are. The men women are seeking who are confident, independent, attractive having a lot of women chasing them are called “sex providers” – this is the man women finds sexually attractive – the man who women would like to have sex just for the sake of having sex. These men are often behaving sexually toward women, making themselves being perceived as sexual beings – sex providers. This type of men is usually called “alpha males” or “lovers” in community lingo. Important to point out, these men are trading sex for sex. However, these are a minority – whereas the majority of men are providers of anything else of women’s needs such as social value, material goods, emotional support and so on. These men will trade something else than sex in for having sex with a woman. As a matter of fact this type of providers tend to get sex from being in relationships with women.
Now you might ask why is that a problem? Well whenever a woman gets “too attracted to you” in ways that are not purely sexual (-i.e. not perceiving you as lover/sex provider), women will tend to act in very pure and a-sexual way toward those men – she will start expressing purity. This is because she feels more attractive when ever she acts non-sexual toward men and feels unattractive when she is behaving too sexually or promiscuous. Women in fact believe we men do not like women who are sexually open – as they are very familiar with the complex many men have which is called “the Madonna/whore” complex. There are many versions of this complex but the most common one is described as men perceiving women as either plain whores, who are just sex tools without, who are useless when it comes to relationships, or “madonnas”, which men perceives as pure and good. These “madonnas” being known as the pure and correct women, are often perceived by men as better fitted for relationships. Women aware of the following will then act in way that communicates that she is a Madonna - in order words she will behave very a-sexually toward male who they perceive as potential relationship candidates. This is because they believe, and they are right in most of the case that men usually do prefer women that are “pure and correct” because men fantasize about women that are exclusive to them.
The sad fact is that the idea of the pure Madonna remains just a plain fantasy. The cold fact is that no women are pure madonnas, neither are they whores for that instance – any women can be sweet and correct, but they are also “whores” as every women have a sexual biological drive – this is a universal truth about healthy women. Still many men believe some madonnas do exist – we have all heard “she is not like the rest”. Now the problem occurs whenever a man is too attractive to a woman in a way that is not just purely sexual, she starts perceiving that man as a boyfriend potential – nothing bad with that, but she will perceive him as a provider – meaning that the relationship would not be based on the sexual aspect. Therefore she is better off expressing her “Madonna side” by showing purity – acting a-sexual in order to win her man over, as that what believes works. This is why women will often make men wait for sex – “I am not that kind of girl” –, which is something we don’t want to happen. We don’t want women to act pure toward us, as we want sexual openness – women fucking us quickly and good. Many times we just want to simply fuck a girl, not enter a relationship – or if we do want to enter a relationship with that girl, we do not want to commit on a false premise – her being a pure Madonna. A quick word of advice is to never ever enter a relationship on her terms – as you don’t want to exchange sex for anything else than sex. Keep in mind that you can easily start relationships with women by being perceived as a sex provider – these relationships will be of better quality and last longer.
CHAT
