This needs to be said.

People often debate whether someone overanalyzes a problem or if he is smart doing that.

How often have you heard someone say: Just be yourself, trust your gut, using routines is weird?

A word on trusting your gut. What is that really? It is something like intuition. Now intuition is normally associated with women explaining why they believe stuff when they really have no idea why they do. Men do this too but they say stuff like trusting your gut or I know people.

Now this is far from the nerd taking out his little black notebook in field and comparing his progress with a diagram in there, where am I, A3? Or is it?

Some people will say that this behaviour is weird and that he should just do what works instead. Problem is, he doesnt know what works yet.

Now people say, dont use routines, its creepy. Instead, get some experience and find out what works. Yeah, I agree, that is the way to get better. Then the guys welcome him as a "non-routine natural" and rejoice for a new brother rising from the ashes of his burned field journal.
Well, really?

He is still using routines. Problem is, he didnt get there the easy way but the hard way. Using other peoples routines is just using what they have found to work for them by spending numerous hours in field. He just starts where they stopped and bypasses a lot of practice hours. Now will he get the same training as others, yes, he will, in time. Difference is, he will get results quicker and may quit before he gets really good.

Everybody who is good uses routines, their own routines. They come so natural that you dont realize it. They feel so right that you dont realize that it is a routine. You were just trusting your gut right. When in a set, the same situations will come up over and over again and you know how to deal with them. So you use one of your favorite solutions and solve the problem, thing is, they will be the same. If you go up to 100 girls, chances are you are gonna say the same thing to a lot of them. In what way isnt that a routine? Because you are not analyzing before you say things?

What you are doing is trusting your gut. You get a feel for what works when. It isnt your coolness speaking or your alphaness that helps you. It is experience. Trusting your gut is something you can do when you have so much in field experience that you can have been in a situation enough times to automatically know what to do. So you do the thing you know works because it has so many times before and that is by definition a routine.

So what is the difference between a newbie and an experienced PUA? They have guts that has different levels of experience.

For a newbie, his experience is limited to online porn, romantic comedies and Donald Duck. So his gut tells him to pay for dinner and if he follows Donald Duck, how do you get Daisy Duck to like you? You beat up your lucky cousin Gladstone.
Whent he newbie gets some experience, his gut changes to incorporate new experiences. With enough new experience he will change and make his gut tell him to do what works in the real world.

Now he can choose his reality. Of course buying a girl a new mercedes may work if you live in a castle drinking champagne every day. We all choose what path we wanna follow and what type of gut we wanna have. We just gotta make sure this is a gut that fits us. That fits our lives, and preferably one that works in many different situations. Gut is just experience after all.

I personally dont have a lucky cousing Gladstone so I cant beat him up each time I wanna impress a girl, thats why I choose to expose myself to all kinds of pickup to get a more holistic view of how everything works.

So trust your gut, use your experience and never ever forget that whatever you do often enough is per definition a routine.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

Inspiring Ezo,

Routine vs Natural using gut instinct with BOTH is key!

To say you don't use routine is bullshit, we all use routine daily!
Walking down the sidewalk is "routine" wile pushing your way through the woods, briers, and brambles may be "natural" the sidewalk is much quicker and much more comfortable! Either way traveled, your gut instinct tells you to check traffic when you come to a crossing. Make a judgement call!- The outcome of that crossing was all your decision!

I don't care if you used a sidewalk or forged through the woods to reach your goal, the point is to MAKE your goal!

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They call me the cat whisperer, cause I know exactly what the pussy needs.

Exactly, gut is just an experienced analysis that goes very fast since you have done it before.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

Why Routines Get a Bad Rap

I think the issue on why routines get a bad rap from other PUAS comes from two areas:

• 1. Market Differentiation. To differentiate one's own method from the market leader, some PUAs discredit techniques and then offer their own unique selling proposition. There are other ways to breach the barriers to entry when a market leader is strongly positioned but discrediting the market leader is the most obvious way to do it.
  
  2. Mistaking Routines with Canned Openers/Responses/Closers. It's easy to see why a highly popular opener will no longer work. When an HB hears that opener more than a hundred times from dozens upon dozens of guys, it gets annoying. The thing is, many miss the nonverbal component and paraphrasing to fit the context of the interaction. With Ezo's Donald Duck and cousin Gladstone example, you'll realize that routines have a nonverbal component too. Plain and simple. If you don't learn the nonverbal component of routines, you're at a great disadvantage.

I don't argue when someone advices me to disregard my routines for the simple reason that these routines work; as Ezo pointed out. I just look at the other parts of the advice that I can use and thank the person for taking the time and effort to help me. It's hard to find sincere and genuine people nowadays who will invest their time to help a random stranger.

Which Routine is Bullshit or Not

As Ezo also pointed out, learning from the routines that other PUAs have already perfected is the most efficient way to learn. However, the problem comes from telling which is bullshit and which is not. If we just take advice from anybody and we are not selective about whom to take advice from, we will be wasting a lot of time, money and effort on unsound, theoretical advice.

When selecting which advice to take or which PUA to learn from, dissect what a PUA says and relate it to your previous experience and observations. If you have interacted with a sufficient number of people already, some of these PUAs approaches, theories or advices will make sense based on your own past interactions. You'll see a pattern.

You can also relate these PUA approaches with scientific studies if these are scientifically sound. A scientific study with good methodology has accurate measurement techniques and equipment that no PUA Field Report or Lay Report can ever duplicate. But of course, most of these studies were made in a laboratory environment and not done in-field.

The third and most important thing to do to tell if a routine is bullshit or not is to test it in-field. No amount of debating or argumentation can ever take the place of seeing how the routine works or does not work in-field. In fact, debating and arguing that this PUA is bullshit or a delusional liar is a total waste of time. It just feeds the ego of the guy who wants to brag about that he is sane and honest at the expense of another person without laying his own method or approaches on the line that other people can field test or validate for themselves.

Likewise, testing routines in-field can bring a lot of good surprises that the PUA whom you borrowed these routines from can never fully or clearly explain.

Good Surprises from Field Testing Routines

For instance, before devoting focus on the eyefuck, most girls break eye contact or look down when I look at them. Now with the eyefuck even with extremely shy girls, I've noticed that girls maintain eye contact for long periods of time when you're eyefucking them. I've also noticed a milder form of the unmistakable look of love. I would estimate less than 60% of intensity but still significant.

When they triangulate from my eyes down to my crotch, I pull a classic DeAngelo routine while I exaggerate the protrusion of my crotch, "I hate the way you look as if you're undressing me." And add my own sexual innuendo with some mild pumping motions, "Maybe you're thinking of grabbing my hard and throbbing dignity and pride and grind on it and take away all of the purity and values that I have. (Translated from the vernacular. It's a line that girls use in drama shows. It goes something like this, "Niluray-luray niya ang aking puri't dangal at nilapastangan ang aking pagkababae. Isa siyang ahas!")" The girlie reactions are always the same. They kino me a lot and giggle. They even laugh out loud when I pull the, "Isa kang ahas!"

I know that Warped Mindless does not want any of those C&F lines. I'll never know what he meant by that until I test the no C&F lines with his eyefuck routine. He could be right that my f-closes would be more efficient without the C&F stuff. But it will take some deprogramming to remove the C&F routines from my system.

Apologies for the Thread Hijack

I can't help but expound some more on Ezo's insight. It's just so right based on first hand observations and field experiences.

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Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

I've thought about this a lot over a couple of years. In dating and also business. The thing is gut feeling could be right (fully trusted) only after one has had a lot of different kinds of experiences, wouldnt you say so?

Early on, and several times, I tried doing things exactly the opposite of my gut feeling just for the sake of breaking my normal way of thinking and exploring outside of my comfort zone. some have turned out good and some bad.

Thanks for bringing up this topic.

Well said haywood!. I have found that this "gut" instinct ALWAYS works when ur in the right frame or in the zone per say.. Usually when im out say at a bar or even in day game, when im just talkin, flowin without thinkin too much or stressin on what she may think, i get Way better results.. Its usually when i get thrown off when i fumble sometimes.. Usually the girl can pick up on u gettin thrown off...

Great book Hobbit, read that book a few years ago. I highly recommend anyone interested in these thoughts to read it. There is also another one by Jonah Lehrer called How We Decide that talks about how we use emotion to make a decision.

I agree with what you said, but how you finished for me was the most important part.

I don't believe in routines, I find they are boring. Some of my behaviors could be considered routine but the only routine behaviors courtship related that I have is escalation. It's pretty similar regardless. My words, and what I say are different, I have tons of different kiss closes, tons of different statements, I've reused some, and they were natural but at no point would you think I did the same thing with the last 5 women outside of body language.

What I say is there will always be different strokes for different folks. No choice on that, each woman is different and thus requires a different tactic. It takes a minute but you learn to gauge women based on their appearance(what they wear) and their behavior. I can't put it into words but you may want to be an asshole with one women, you may need to be a nice guy with another(just got out of a relationship perhaps), or you may need to just be a flirt. Really it all depends on the women, I might walk up to a woman alone and copy her body language joking. When there are two women I might walk up and compliment one of them.

Everything is situational, that is why I preach Natural game because in order to become legitimately good with women, you need to learn to be a social chameleon and be what she needs right now, whether that is a nice guy, asshole, smart guy, masculine man, or pervert a woman has different needs at different moments.

Each routine to me is a numbers game, routines are a lot more centered on specific game. Meaning club game or day game, but if you gain true game. Where you can be yourself and just pick up women you can do it where ever. I've done it at work(and trainings), walking in a grocery store(different one than I work at), on buses, planes, walking down the strip in Vegas(multiple times), book store, class, clubs, bars, those are just off the top of my head, your game once it gets good enough works everywhere you walk.

It's all about diversifying your tool cabinet and gaining the tools to be efficient at all of them and knowing when to use them. This comes through trial and error, experience, but you can get very good at landing 8-10 women with some tactics and serious game.

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com