Starting off Rantly

I'm starting to feel like an old man. Half the time I show up to this place, I get this feeling of "Back in my day, everything was better than this." I get all nostalgic for the days when there were only a few sources, only a few methods, when people were arguing the various merits of Juggler's freeform stuff over Mystery's more concrete routines. Before the self-help bullshit started. Before the pick-up arts were taken over by the same assholes we whose girlfriends we were stealing.

Every time I come in here, someone is pissing me off with some half-cooked bullshit they wrote on the back of a napkin, never bothered testing, and then spouted off like it's spittle from the mouth of Pick-up Jesus himself. Every time I'm here, I see another guy saying "Oh, you want to pick up girls, hit the gym. Gym, tan and laundry, hur hur." I had a guy tell me today that the pick-up techniques I learned five years ago, the stuff that has gotten me laid countless times and has been responsible for me starting and maintaining multiple long-term relationships for _years_ was just marketing. That I need to look good if I want to be successful in this art.

Something has gone very, very wrong, here. Somewhere along this path, we done fucked up. There are people telling other people nonsense, and it's getting listened to. There are people telling other people that this art that was created to get fat, ugly people laid only works if you're fit and good looking. Man, FUCK you! That is bullshit and you fucking know it. Ugly people get laid all the time. Fat people get laid all the time. And fat, ugly pick-up artists get laid more than most.

More Constructive Stuff

I'm this guy:



You will note that I am not particularly good looking. In this photo, I'm not even well groomed. This is not some doctored up, posing piece of shit photo of some dude showing off his peacocking gear, this is just what I look like when I'm at a nerd convention, writing something down on (I believe) a place mat. I'm at a fucking Steak n' Shake. You will also notice that I'm fat and I have no fashion sense at all.

So why am I subjecting you to this horrible piece of shit photo? Because I went to that nerd convention with two long-term girlfriends, one of whom took this photo. I used game to pick them both up. I had a third but had to break up with her due mostly to time constraints. Having more than two girlfriends is a hell of a time sink, and I'm a really busy dude. So how did I do it? How did that fat piece of slobby bullshit manage to get two hot girls (far younger and prettier than I; ask around, Hobbit knows) to come with him to a convention that celebrates Dungeons & Dragons? Moreover, how have I convinced so many pretty young ladies that having my penis in them isn't a bad idea?

I used pick-up. Not this watered-down bullshit pick-up people are spewing out these days, but a purer, well-tested, well-designed pick-up from eons past. Find, Meet, Attract, Close. Well, more detailed than that, but about as close to it as you can get.

See, when I was studying pick-up, it was before the days when everybody had an e-book. It was before anyone who had ever come up with an original value demonstration had piled it into a 60-page pdf and sold it for $30 on the intertubes. The sources we had for good information were pretty slim. We had Mystery's "Mystery Method," Juggler's "Conversational Jujitsu," Style's Annihilation Method (which was really just some new stuff for Mystery's method), the ASF kids, and each other. So it is probably unsurprising that the method I use is a mixture of Mystery's M3 model and Juggler's more open-ended freestyles.

There were others, don't get me wrong. Gunwitch, David DeAngelo, David Shade, we had some choice. But the choices tended to go in the same direction every time: Mystery vs. Juggler.

Now, I'm not lamenting that these were our only resources. I'm really happy I got into pick-up when I did, because shortly afterwards, we became inundated with new material, and so little of it was field-tested that it barely mattered what people were writing. You had to field-test every idea for yourself (which isn't a bad idea anyway, but it's annoying when you go out into the field with a cool new technique or routine only to find that it's utter crap). I suffered through a lot of really poor ideas on pick-up and attraction, and a huge pile of what people are coming up with now (or mindlessly repeating) is utter garbage.

It's no wonder people think you need to be good looking for this shit to work. In its current incarnation, it _doesn't_ and that seems like it would be a problem worth fixing.

So What Do We Do?

There's only one way to solve this problem, guys. I hate to tell you, but it will take hard work. To help illustrate the process here, a quote from The Game:
Now, I've done this. I had the benefit of an education before doing it, but I've actually gone through the effort of trying to do everything wrong, make every mistake in the book by itself and in an infinite number of combinations. And I'm pretty sure I've figured out what I can get "wrong" and still end up fucking a girl. And I'm not sharing. You have to figure it out for yourself.

You want to be good at this? Don't worry about the fucking gym. Don't worry about the fucking tanning beds. Don't make this about the peripheral shit. You don't have time for that. You have shit to do. Take a shower, put on some clean clothes, go somewhere public and talk to strangers. Do it a lot. Do it as often as you can get away with. And learn. Learn from the interactions that don't go right. Learn from the interactions that go swimmingly but she never answers your calls. Learn from the interactions that go sideways in weird ways. Learn. Constantly.

Read old pick-up manuals. For real, no one is doing this shit anymore. I found a collection of old-ass routines that I save for myself because all of that shit's been field tested to hell and back, and it's fucking golden, and it hasn't been used in five years. That's precious. Read the source material. Read Mystery. Read Juggler. Read DeAngelo and Shade and Strauss. Don't read the new shit. That's just here to distract you, that's just the marketing machine realizing "Oh, shit, we're out of stuff that works, let's print this shit that's a little murkier, they'll never know the fucking difference." Don't poison your mind with shit that hasn't been tested, and test everything you ever plan to use anyway. Most importantly: learn to leave them better than you found them.

And that's it. That's the whole fucking secret. I hope you take it to heart.

Happy hunting,
-Kris

_________________
Repent now and save 50% on your next divine judgment.
-Monkey's Little Brother, Spud

Was the first part partially referring to me? Lol

Although I do agree that most of the "new" pick up stuff is all just a way to get money from your wallet, I disagree that you should neglect your looks.

You don't need to be the most handsome, the richest, or the most powerful man to pick up women. But if you were the most handsome, the richest or most powerful, you wouldn't need game either. Everything counts. Looks, money, your status and your game. Why not just make everything work for you. Like Neil Strauss said "Be your best self." I'm pretty sure in the Game, Strauss also hit the gym and tanning beds.

Although I do think, you can't really get a girl without some knowledge of game, I believe that you should try and be your best self improving everything including your game.

Great post. Hurt a little bit, cause I saw some of myself in your criticisms, but I needed that.

I will focus too much on the periphery sometimes. I'll go to the gym or meditate as an excuse not to go out and try more day game. Those things have certainly helped me, but I should leave them until AFTER I try some pick up for the day.

Appreciate the honesty and wisdom. Real knowledge comes from experience.

EDIT: I would like to clarify that I see no reason to start yourself off in the red. Dress as well as you can, exercise frequently, or you're missing a lot of potential benefit. Otherwise you're being as lazy as guys who don't get in field at all, just in another way.

Great post. I love the pic. It just goes to show that you don't need all of the other "stuff" to pickup girls. You just need game. Tried and field tested game. One of the problems in our world today is that so many people are out there giving advice but very few people are giving advice that has been properly field tested. People also want a quick fix. They want game so bad, but they don't want to work for it. Inspiring. Thank you.

Until you've 'field tested' picking up after losing some weight, gone to the gym, and cleaned up a bit, why don't you follow your own advice and stay off this topic? And if you're happy being a pudgy guy chillin' with chicks who dig pudgy guys, good for you. Not all share your goals.
^This is good advice. It's true that a lot of guys do just about everything else INSTEAD of this. However, there's no reason to do ONLY this and nothing else.

See, I _have_ field-tested being fit and well-groomed. It's part of that phase where I was field-testing everything, even the shit that wasn't supposed to work. I started off sort of pudgy. I got more in shape a couple of years into my pick-up career, and I didn't notice an appreciable difference (except that I had less free time in which to pick up chicks).

For some guys, that won't be true, but I think for a lot of the guys that are just starting out in pick-up, focusing on improving your looks is starting off in the wrong direction.

Get good. Then play with other variables.

_________________
Repent now and save 50% on your next divine judgment.
-Monkey's Little Brother, Spud

Fair enough, and I dig where you are comoing from, but why is using techniques or anything old school that gets you laid any more valuable than what gets me laid. If I'm not using juggler or mystery or anything else like that, and I'm relying mostly on looks, social status and my job to get me laid, and it works, why is yours more valuable.

Who cares what you do and how you do it if you get to have sex with the type of girls your are are attracted to.

_________________
La Dolce Vita.

Hey man, cool post brother. I like the straight perspective you are offering.

This "game" is a process. Whether we like to admit or not, the fact that we come to this site means we need/needed to learn. While it may seem clear cut to what needs to be done, this is a process that many members are trying to find, you are fortunate to have found that.
With that being said, you, yourself had to go through the process that many of these people here are going through. You had to learn to find and meet people and talk to them. And although this wasn't easy, it was a process that you went through.
It is very easy though, to look back and tell people that all you need to do is Find. Meet. Attract. Close...While it is that easy, it is not that easy. I'm willing to make a bet if someone gave you that advice when you first started, you would've looked somewhere else for advice.

If you ever seen the movie "A Beautiful Mind", theirs a seen where John Nash is telling the doctor that he can fix his own head problems, and the doctor says you can't because the problem is in your mind.

This is similar, in the sense that in order to teach fellow pick up artists, you have to literally show them how its done. You literally have to give them specific material for them to say, so they can adapt and see the difference between what they think is right and what is actually right.

Just my two cents

Decent post Monkey.

If you don't mind me asking though, could you please post some pictures of some of these girls? Anyone can have sex with average girls with a decent body. Even person who aren't well groomed.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the party girls, the ones who walk around in underwear with the club logo on it and literally get paid because they are good looking (and other similar types of girls) aren't going to go out with a slobby nerd who doesn't take care of himself. However, if you could disprove me, that'd be good.

I know three of these types of girls. One doesn't have a bf. One goes out with an exclusive club owner, the other goes out with a guy who is heavily involved in creating the social scene.

In a nutshell: Just how good are these girls? I can hardly see Eva Mendes hooking up with a nerd who doesn't look like he showers (extreme example).

Hey monkey,
everyone has different goals, now if your goal is simply not be a virgin, that goal can be easily attained without any specific physical appearance being reached. Now on the otherhand if your goal is to on a regular basis sleep with girls who are in the top 30% of physical attractiveness, this goal does not seem easily achieveable if you are overweight and ugly. If I am incorrect then at least that is not my experience with the matter. You see I too used to be fairly overweight, after a whole year of still holding unrealistic superficial shallow standards while not taking care of myself, I did indeed walk around clubs 2-7 nights a week for 2+ hours a night asking for opinions on if I looked like a drug dealer, or what do you think of moustaches, followed by a neg or two. However the results from the girls I was approaching was staggeringly negative, a whole lot of girls being rude and ignoring me was my experience when I weighed 250lbs at 6ft tall, after getting very frustrated, I decided hey, why not give the good old fashioned GTL route a try. Lost 95lbs, I am fairly fit, I got a tan, and decked myself out in armani and got my ears pierced. Now my results have more then doubled, and I have been able to reach my superficial goals alot easier but your post still interests me.

I would like to see some pictures of these girls that you have landed due to game, If looks simply don't matter you should be able to pull 10s no problem easily, just because of game. I have been challenged by this to wounder if it is the actual physicality that gets me the better results, or the way I view myself as a result, because honestly I believe it is the actual physicality, due to the way I am initially treated and ''lack of'' rudeness/congruence tests I recieve + the new approach invites that were never there before. The difficulty level of getting the girls has become lower, and the level of physical attractiveness in girls that I can elicit positive responses from has increased drasticly. (or at least it seems that way to me)

Less resistance, More warth from sets, Less shit tests, More chance everything goes great or the girl simply games you instead of the opposite, and less rejections, less resistance to physical escalation

I could be wrong, but for what I got out of Monkey's post....is reading the "old school" material can sometimes be more beneficial than new stuff....Because quite a bit of the new stuff is just the old stuff, in different words....or simply hasn't been field tested, meaning it is just someone's theory that has no merit, because it hasn't been tested..It was written, marketed, and capitalized on the vast amount of guys buying whatever they can find and get their hands on.

If you have great looks, high social status, and great job....and that gets you laid, then thats great for you. But for most people, those things only get them so far. And the "old school" methods teach not only to pick up women as if you had those things, but they also teach what you need to change within yourself, to be able to attract women who may not really be attracted to your looks, social status, or job.

I agree with 'pumpington' although you can get girls purely through good game I can relate to being unfit and looking a bit tatty and despite trying my hardest still got quite bad feedback when sarging. I can honestly say its exponentialy easier to attract girls after nearly a year of regular training in the gym. Girls are still vain creatures and prefer the tarted up GTL style guys.. Or at least thats what girls in Britain prefer

Listen.

If MM gets you results, stick with it.

If being a natural/being congruent gets you results, stick with it.

Nobody cares.

In my honest opinion it's not about materials you read. Or people you listen.

I always saw myself as someone that didn't have problems with women. I always had girfriends, I got laid etc. But looking back I came here cuz' I got girls from my social circle but didn't know how to start interacting with babes I saw on the street. So at the end of the day I DID have problems picking up girls.

I asume that 99% of people here had problems with picking up girls that were soved with:
1) steping out of your comfort zone. Going out, talking to strangers, talking to girls. PUA pushes you to do that. Doesn't matter what you read.
2) confidence. PUA convinces you that you have the secret weapon to attract women. It doesn't matter who you listen to. You feel more secure in your self as you did before reading "pick up stuff".
3) learning from your mistakes. Trying + basic knowledge of human emotions will enable you to calibrate your interactions with other people to get desired result.

So in my opinion it's not about old school pickup vs. new school pickup vs. natural vs. ...

It's about deciding that "you're doing pickup" and talking to girls you wouldn't otherwise

I weighed 347 when I started attracting girls, I weigh 247 now, and with a greater amount of confidence, it's really easy for me. I agree that the old school way of seduction works, but, for me, it never felt natural, and the way I liked to do business. I'm a casual person, who likes to just start talking with girls and find out if they're interesting, and if I want to sleep with them, or date them.

Though, I believe one should definitely know the old school structure backwards and forwards, because they can do a lot. I started off with Speed Seduction, Mystery Method, and the such, until I distilled what it was all about. Capture Attention, Build Your Attraction, and Close. Once I understood that the real goal was simply to get her to acknowledge your existence, get her talking, and then create pleasant feelings and link those pleasant and fun feelings to you, it became really simple and you could drop all the pretense.