Two points I wanted to address here.

Basically, the other methods are the easy way, so why would you bother doing it the hard way? It's like asking someone to lift and carry a huge cinder block a mile, then teaching them how to use a wheelbarrow to make it a million times easier. A lot of MMers are just too scared to learn to use a wheelbarrow, because the learning process would hurt. Crappy analogy, but I hope it gets the point across.

MM brought a lot of people to the game, but I'm not sure how good of a thing that is, considering the main kind of people it ended up attracting were the socially desperate who wanted to get laid with no work involved. I have little respect for these types, and very high amounts of respect for the leaders who have really gotten to the top, and worked for it.

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Don't hate, just dominate.

I've asked my friend "The Letter" to come here and post something about this topic. You could call him a community veteran. Watch for his post

He's got some epic shit to say.

Thank you for the calm and maturely stated opinions, but they appear to be uninformed opinions.
Have you tried MM in college? It normally doesn't work out too well to say the least.
Have you checked out 60's stuff? It looks pretty standalone to me, without any "101" prerequisites.

no offense taken I am not deep enough into each method to give a greatly well informed opinion.

Yes i have seen 60's. Its effective the whole tension idea, less is more. Really is quite fun out in the field

Now yes 60's is way simpler for people who have been in this for a while. Socailly inept people i dont think see 60's the same way though. They play video games are very intellectual very deep inside their own heads, they want structure since most of them have never been their own leaders and need the structure model to teach them what goes where when.
Its harder for socially inept ppl to simply accept the frame of 60's go use it out in the world and make it work they need to be lead around on this structure pretty much a crutch and hence why in the end it fucks so many people over. For ppl who have been in the game a while (going off 60's manifesto and other free stuff Ive seen off it) a simple change it whats done(creating tension) will suffice since ppl who have been in this a while have the frame mindset to easily do it.

haha and yes chief Ive experiment with MM for shits out in the college I'm attending. girls dont know their value yet still insecure soo much MM stuff blows up in my face like negs, and I just get a good laugh out of it change my shit back to normal and its all good.

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Inner game is the core, outer game is just an expression of it

As I have mentioned in this thread already, MM isn't the only method that provides structure. It's just the most commercialized one, unfortunately.

As much as I hate repeating myself because of people deciding to post replies before reading the rest of the thread, a lot of PUAs agree: newbies need to start with GWM.

I never understand why people are so adamant about finding ONE method. None of this needs to be by the book and you can take what you want out of any of the methods and use what's right for you. Combine and expand.

I read the whole thread. and your correct MM is way more commercialized, this thread has even motivated to read through GWM again, but I conceed, I was just saying there was some usage for it to the ppl who need structure.

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Inner game is the core, outer game is just an expression of it

The problem is GWM doesn1t provide much stuff to say or when to say it. It's mosly sexual state based.
Newbies often don't even know what to say to a woman when first meeting.
MM fills this gap.

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"Their compliance is,
'Does she grab your hand?' F*ck you! I want to grab her mind. If I can
grab her mind, she'll be grabbing whatever I want, any way I want her to." - Ross Jeffries

I would like to toss in my views on the matter.

There is no perfect method. They are all great, and they all suck. The best thing anyone can do is study. Take what you like, what you can use, what fits you, and leave the rest. Cause in the end it's all bullshit. So go develop your own method. Because that will be the truly perfect method. Your method. Enjoy your pick up guys.


The ChinaMan

This thread was meant to illustrate the point that Mystery Method is objectively less effective and more destructive than other methods that exist. Keep your "let's all hold hands and realize that every method is equal" BS attitude out of here.

You guys treat Mystery's Method like the Qur'an...

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I can FIX ANYTHING!!!

I was not trying to imply that all methods are equal. Just that using any one method is destructive to ones game. But my apologies if I messed with the flow of the thread.

i think you are right bro.

i tend to think that the effectiveness of a method depends on the sticking points of the individual. for me, comfort was a big sticking point for me when i started out. as an afc i didn't even have a single friend that was a girl. mm really helped me understand the phases of pickup and why you should build comfort in adition to attraction.

for those who have lots of friends who are girls but can't get them attracted, i personally would not recommend mm. i think adam lyons' stuff will be more efficient for this person.

i don't think it's fair to bash a method that is out there just because it wasn't tailor made for YOU. we all have our sticking points, and some methods cater to certain sticking points better than others. the reason for this is probably because the creator(s) of these methods created them with their own sticking points in mind.

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Happily Married Since 12/30/09

I think how Mystery has broken up the whole courtship process from a1 to s3 to be quite genius. It's obvious he is a genius of some sort and seduction is where he put most of his energies.

I don't think MM is for me personally because I am not a big talker and I do not like to dominate conversations. However, I think I learned some valuable stuff from Mystery.

Er ... at the risk of stating the blindingly obvious ....

Learning any deep skill requires different approaches at various stages of your development.
stage 1: You start out with a highly structured program involving a lot of rote learning. stage 2: you switch to program involving more theory and underlying principals.
stage 3: finally you develop an intuitive familiarity that transcends the underlying principals and allows free creativity and improvisation.

At each stage to have deconstruct and reconstruct your knowledge.

Thing is I could be describing any skill - learning a language, playing an instrument, becoming a pilot or surgeon.

MM is surely just a very good stage 1 program. Sure sometimes talented people can skip earlier stages but generally it takes more than "hey dude, just use your ears and play some cool notes" to make a jazz musician. I do note with some irony that many of the people bashing MM used it to get started ...

(s)

sapphire, if you read the posts or the original post...you'll know its not about learning routines is bad for beginning, its just that MM's principals are bad and how it frames an interaction and that its method is actually flawed in how it is supposed to attract a woman to bump uglies with.

this isnt me giving my opinion, its just what the thread is about. Although some people do think you shouldnt learn routines. say if you came up with routines for a 'better' method, even if it is supposedly natural then you might have better chances.

also difference between music and surgery is that when you go into a social situation there are so many variables and people BEING REAL that its hard to stick to a structure with your routines.

also imagine learning all these routines and phases, its hard work, i gave up on it. not that MM didnt teach me anything or get me learning.

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"You don't want girls to think you suck dick at fucking pussy"
-Seth (Superbad)