But what you wrote has very little . . . if at all to do with pick up.

You make some interesting points but I think you are thinking about game as being like a university/college course kind of thing, with a set criteria and learning materials that need to be learnt in a structured set environment.

Learning game isn't the same as learning to drive a car or learning how to properly swing a baseball bat, game comes in many different forms and styles and PUA, Mystery etc.. does not constitute game in it's entirety there are many different schools of thought and learning.

If you are talking about the type of Game we read about in the book 'The Game' then frankly I don't believe that anyone should learn that regardless of age because I actually believe that despite it's popularity there is better less weired stuff out there.

I am talking about the kind of stuff that every adolescent teenager should learn but many do not because they are fat in high school, geeky, nerdy, shy etc. As a result they miss out on many of the essential interactions with the opposite sex that many of us take for granted.

You can learn a lot of those lessons through instruction by others and when you put them into practice you should yield similar results and thus pro-actively gain knowledge of these basic facets of seduction and male-female interaction.

Honestly dude, I think young guys need to learn game more than older guys for the very simple reason that they are able to absorb it better. The older we get the more set in our ways we become and the harder it becomes for us to learn new things.

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"Stay hungry, stay healthy, be a gentleman, believe strongly in yourself and go beyond limitations.” - Arnold Schwarzenegger

Yes I am. As we are all entitled to our opinions here. Thank you for expressing yours in your previous posts.

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Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

Skimming articles ≠ Learning.
Learning ≠ Doing.
Pick up = picking up random women and fucking them.
Pick up ≠ good social life and having lots of hobbies and feeling great today!

Now, I am all for young people having great hobbies and friends and feeling "great today". This is a good thing.

The people I've known who often PICKED UP RANDOM WOMEN AND FUCKED THEM in their youth do not seem to do well in relationships when older. Hey, maybe it's just the people I've known . . . throughout several countries from many different cultures . . . Maybe they already had issues prior to any of this . . .

Again, you young kids are saying, "It's great that I'm social and have so many friends." - and I'm saying good for you but this has nothing to do with pick up. There are 7 year olds who know nothing about sex who are social and have lots of friends. It's called, "Being social and having lots of friends", not practicing "pick up".

Right Guidance in any walk of life is essential and keeps one calibrated and sane.

PUA techniques = Healthy Social life = Fine. But, PU is much more than that. There are a lot of emotions, managing of expectations, appropriate conduct in different gatherings etc.. that is involved with being a good PUA. With age and experience one one learns to be in control of ones own emotions - leave alone that of others.

Exposure to to art of PU and its techniques provides one with the 'powers' that one may not be fully matured to handle. You can argue, but there are more examples, infact almost all of guys having an identity crises because of learning the techniques of attracting women without truly actually being an attractive emotionally healthy person first.

What are you doing to having a good healthy social life ? What are your talents? Is your worth on this planet just measured by the number of women you sleep with? - that would make you no different than a woman who derives her value from only her 'how good she is in bed' - And a young guy needs 'x' yrs, be it 21 or 25yrs to set the foundation to finding his own talents and true worth.

I respect your point of view on this you make a lot of well thought insightful comments but I honestly don't see the same correllation based on my own experiences with people, I think it comes down to the individual and it doesn't make much of a difference what their sexual history is like.

I believe that most guys are just playing the field until they meet the 'wow' girl and I don't mean that slag from Jersey Shore, I mean the girl that blows their mind and makes them want to committ to something stable and real.

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"Stay hungry, stay healthy, be a gentleman, believe strongly in yourself and go beyond limitations.” - Arnold Schwarzenegger

So what did you think Pick up Techniques or seminars are about?
This is where a matured individual is better at separating the author and his style from that of his own. Anyone who is matured will understand that this is the authors prospective and the possibilities with women that he has explored. But, would be able to scan for the underlying message such as, High value, being groomed, talking to strangers without being needy etc. is attractive.
How stable is a 25 yr old in his own life today? Will a stable and emotionally health woman willing to commit to a guy who is just out there trying to practice PU? And then you start complaining that girls are bitches and they all cheat!! Well what do you have as a 25 yr old that she would like to get into a stable relationship with you.

I am in a stable relationship and I was by profession a pick up coach until I met her, I am also 24 years old and I was seeing two other beautiful girls at the time when I first started seeing her.

She knows all about my involvement in this community and the lifestyle I was leading prior to meeting her. She has told me part of what attracted her to me was that all of her friends wanted me as well, I had already hooked up with two of those friends, this was not an issue for her.

I would never call a girl a bitch, slut etc. or any other mysgonistic label and I have never cheated or been cheated on, I love women.

I know what "pick up seminars etc" are about because I used to run them myself. I hope this answers your questions Marc.

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"Stay hungry, stay healthy, be a gentleman, believe strongly in yourself and go beyond limitations.” - Arnold Schwarzenegger

Good. What else did you do outside of Pick up that helped you having a healthy lifestyle?

Good question.

To be honest before I discovered that one could pro-actively learn what is necessary in order to excel at attracting beautiful women, I hadn't really been 'awesome' at anything. When after a lot of hard work I felt like I had mastered game and starting picking up the girls that I had always wanted but never been able to get. This one success led me to believe that I was capable of much more than I had originally believed.

This led to me taking on new hobbies and bringing old hobbies up to new levels, I learnt to appreciate the value of hard work and balance in life and I started experiencing successes in many other areas of my life, such as finance, career, family etc.

For me Pick up was the catalyst which enabled me to get my life in order, it gave me a confidence which allowed me to 'help myself' with longstanding problems I had and stop blaming the world about me for my own misfortune. It changed my entire outlook and attitude towards life and if I hadn't found pickup prior to the age of 25 then I would probably still be an unhappy under achiever, honestly I think discovering pick up at 19 was the best thing that ever happened to me.

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"Stay hungry, stay healthy, be a gentleman, believe strongly in yourself and go beyond limitations.” - Arnold Schwarzenegger

Good, thought so. Your helping the argument now.

Now, do you teach the same to 21/25 yr Olds attending your seminars?

This^^

And at any rate, most guys do not have the skills to follow through with this stuff anyway. Most of learning game is simply learning follow through. If you lack consistency and follow through you will fail. This is half the battle.

I'm not following you...

I don't teach seminars anymore, I am an editor for WOTP.

I said from the beginning that I think that young people should learn game, I just don't think that Neil Straus/Mystery are the way to go, there is a lot of great advice out there that wont have you wearing leather jeans and a furry hat.

I consider this to be a discussion, not an argument.

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"Stay hungry, stay healthy, be a gentleman, believe strongly in yourself and go beyond limitations.” - Arnold Schwarzenegger

It was just an example to prove a point that learning at a young age can be helpful. Nothing more.

The only problem I have with J Smooths argument is he feels that being under the age of 21 that we are not able to make decisions that are best for us. Which is completely wrong. Denying you cannot make the best decision for your life at whatever age shows nothing but ignorance. While I will not deny that young people make wrong decisions at times but, who doesn't? That is a part of maturing and learning from mistakes.

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Sinceriously,
Serj

I am assuming that since you are in defense of those underrepresented in this thread that you yourself started at a young age, and must've had relative success. I have only a few words. YOU sir are perhaps one of the few who succeeded. Some people already possess the talent for seduction at a very early age and need it unlocked. There are always exceptions to the rules, but the vast majority of men in the mid and late teenage years spend their time blundering and in self-pity. Most are confused and lack several character traits. Character is not something which is learned in a short span of time. It is something that is learned over a vast expanse of time or through several experiences. And few men at that age have the wisdom or foreknowledge to generate those types of experiences for themselves.

And I think this is the heart of what J Smooth was getting at. There will always be those young guys who will succeed with women, the vast majority who only have a few women, and the miserable few (myself until my mid-20s) who will not have many women. Until an individual is able to understand what makes them unique, success, and attractive, or is at least able to play to those advantages, they will not succeed. I guarantee this.

Most guys who seek out pick up are the ones who are either the miserable few, or the guys who had previous talent but wish to sharpen their skills. There are few guys in between, and based on this analysis I'd say that this messaged was tailored for the miserable few and not the pick-up prodigies.