I understand that one dont like the "LIE" part of the method or routine but does it work? I mean i personally dont see anything wrong with lying my ass of to a woman (im quite good at it) and is kinda funny for me seen how far can i make her believe is kinda perfomance pride i guess.

I asked does it work? because the argument of lieying or not is rather personal, some people dont mean being fake/acting/been manipulative/etc some other hate it and other love it. So i think the question would better be the above, does it work?

i have tried your "just say hi to her" opener and its true it does work, but after that is much more difficult to continue the interaction. What method/author would you recomend?

Why? im not arguin with you here, i just want to know why his method deteriorate my inner game

Lmao, Mystery didnt create the community and Tyler Durden had his own style before doing the Mystery Method. Where do Mystery's dick riders make this stuff up from? Only MM followers have that mentality.

_________________
"You don't want girls to think you suck dick at fucking pussy"
-Seth (Superbad)

PLEASE . . . NOT . . . AGAIN . . .

Read the book the game, best historical account of all this stuff... Taylor whatever comes from mystery, and i am a natural with a little bit dangelo not a mm guy...

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

Chief! IS wrong! Mystery Method = Rock Solid!

Have you read "The Game"?

Tyler stole everything!

And most of it was from Mystery and Style!

Well...Ill throw my two cents in...

I think that MM can help alot of people starting out who have NO idea about how to talk to girls, how to escalate a situation, and how to close. I feel like for someone starting who has NO IDEA on what to do, it gives them a workable model by which they can START to understand social situations. It is in noway the end all be all of PU. I feel like it definitely IS beneficial to alot of people to learn some kind of structure, so they dont feel like they are going out with no arsenal. Also, anyone who has been into PU for some time, realizes you in noway need to follow the exact progression described in MM. Every girl is different, and as such, you don't need to follow any model once you learn to FEEL the situation.

Next, when it comes to direct v indirect...It is a debate which will never be finished. Some situations I go direct, some I go indirect. I use opinion openers, and I use observational openers. I think each can be beneficial depending on the situation. Also, I really dont give a shit if I'm using an opinion opener n it really is a lie. I don't NEED to be 100% honest and I'm cool with that. I do agree with Ryan that direct has alot of advantages compared to indirect in the sense that your intentions are basically clear from the get go, and she has the ability to make her decision pretty quick. The only thing I would say about going indirect, is that you can quickly make your intentions known too. If you use an opinion opener, assimilate into the group, and are playful and flirtatious from the get go, your target will get the point.

The issue with going indirect for alot of people will probably be that they don't know how to transition from using a platonic opener, to being flirtatious and fun. I have definitely lost sets before by using an indirect opener, n it not really going anywhere, but I have lost sets going direct n it just being a beat set. Shit happens tho, and I in noway dwell on it. I just say nice to meet you and bounce. The benefits of going indirect are easy assimiliation, but with the requirement you have to OWN the group, and shift them into a more sexual fun vibe.

I personally am a very social person and always have been. I played sports all my life, was/am very popular, and its really not an issue for me to be fun, playful, and assume the dominant role in social situations. For people that are not this way, MM can help them to learn patterns, and social trends. It can give them guidelines for social interactions, and it really is a WORKABLE model. After you have been at PU for some time, you will realize following ANY model is really unnecessary. It is much more about FEELING the vibe and learning how to roll with it, not using a bunch of canned material. The material DEFINITELY helps people starting off, because it gives them the confidence to know they aren't going to a gun-fight empty handed. After a while tho, they will abandon any MODELS, and just learn how to vibe out, escalate, and close without HAVING to follow ANYTHING.

Have you read Mystery's archive where HE HIMSELF says that Tyler, Style and himself were about equal parts in making the M3 model.

In Tyler's archive all his field reports are mainly based on Cocky-funny and rapport methods (also social proof similar to AFC Adam). He studied with Mystery to understand more about Mystery's style not to steal it and this was back in the day before people paid money for E-books.

Mystery invented a model called "FMAC" = Find Meet Attract Close which he found to be outdated. Reading their archives is a great way to learn about game because you get passed all that marketing and 'style and trademark' bullshit that waters down the advice.

Mystery and Tyler were also great friends for a long time and so was Style and Tyler. Half of their archives are the 3 of them speaking to or about each other lmao.

Its worth noting for Mystery haters that Mystery never condoned lying but making routines true to yourself otherwise thats just weird.

_________________
"You don't want girls to think you suck dick at fucking pussy"
-Seth (Superbad)

Seems some of you could use a refresher to community history. Mystery most certainly did not start the "seduction community."

[Taken from an old post of mine]:

--------------------
The Beginning
--------------------

The true beginning starts with Casanova and Don Juan. These two historic greats recorded their chronicles of seduction and had been studied by many men sense. It would be wrong to say these two have no part in all of this.

--------------------
1980's
--------------------

Although most credit the beginning of the modern seduction community to Ross Jeffries they would be incorrect. The actual beginning of the modern seduction community would be the day Eric Weber's book, "How to Pick Up Girls" was published. This book was read by many men, some who later would go on to become veterans of the seduction community.

A few years later Ross Jeffries (RJ) hits the scene with his own seduction influenced style of NLP which he calls "Speed Seduction (SS)." Towards the end of the 1980's he published his first book which detailed his philosophy and method for laying desirable women.

--------------------
1994
--------------------
,
In 1994 a student of RJ, Lewis De Payne, founded alt.seduction.fast, one of the first internet based groups based solely on seduction. This helped spawn an entire network of websites (a popular one being 'Cliffs List') and discussion forums across the internet based on PU.

alt.seduction.fast quickly became infested with spam and to combat the problem Moderated alt.seduction.fast (mASF) was formed. Many of the big name gurus posted on there back in the day. Mystery, David DeAngelo, Badboy, Shark, Tyler Durden, Stephan Nash, Hypnotica, Zan Perrion, Steve Piccus, Juggler, Swinggcat, and Carlos Xuma.

--------------------
2000
--------------------

Although RJ has been giving seminars sinse he started his company it wasn't until around this time that "gurus" started taking their students out into the bars and clubs. The first to do this was Juggler of Charisma Arts.

Juggler style didn't focus on canned material but at the time wasn't very natural either.

Soon after Juggler, Mystery followed suit. These two gave birth to the modern bootcamps the Gurus have today.

--------------------
2003 - 2007
--------------------
David Deangelo's ebook "Double Your Dating" gets mass marketed to great success.

2004 saw a small shift in the community. A user that went by the name of WoodHaven (Vin DiCarlo) posted a series of revolutionary post on mASF detailing what he called "natural game."

In 2005, Neil's book "The Game" came out. It was a national best seller. He was featured on talk and radio shows all over North America. The community, at this point, had been exposed more than ever.

This caused a huge surge in guys logging onto the internet looking for answers to their problems with women.

Along with a surge in popularity, a surge in "gurus" came about too. And with the gurus came the massive load of products.

In 2007 Mystery's show "Vh1 The Pick Up Artist" hit the air. Again, this caused an even bigger surge in the number of men studying PU.

--------------------
Current Day
--------------------

The Seduction community is now bigger than ever and shows no signs of getting smaller or even slowing down.

Vins original post inspired a movement and now the community has experienced a big shift in thinking. Many people have now traded their canned scripts for newer, better inner game beliefs. The community in now divided up between three differnt schools of thought. Speed Seduction, Canned Game, and Natural Game.

_________________
Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

"Fake it til you make it"

Faking is lying.

Pickup should be an expression, not an impression.

Casnova spent most of his days writing about food, politics, music, language, maths and sex. Very little of it was spent writing about seduction.

Don Juan was a fictional character.

Casanova if anything helped with the spread of certain popular cures to STD's, but this was purely to do with his education, nothing really based on his "reputation" he did write some literature on contraception, but that's about it. Don Juan being a fictional character used by multiple authors has no "chronicles".

So I don't think either of them have anything to do with Pick up.
----------

And I giggled when it was said that todays beliefs are "better".

The community USED to be a bunch of people in silly hats looking for attention, it's now something altogether more frightening and depressing.
------
Other than seems a decent account of history, nicely put together.

Depends on interpretation. If one doesn't 'understand' music, does this mean he/she must study music history, music appreciation, music interpretation, etc . . .? Even if he doesn't understand music, he can simply be exposed to music, not only come to better understand it but also to gain greater passion for it as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_method

I learned to play the piano at a young age by simply watching/hearing my teacher play. I didn't know any scales or the difference between Bach or Mozart. I simply watched, and copied my teacher. I copied not only her fingering but also her physical gestures. Through this 'way in', I eventually learned many more facets of music than 'copy cat', which I'm sure you'd agree is itself an important aspect of music.

Many things are this way. If you're hired for a new job and you don't fully understand all the operations, what do you do? Tell your boss to give you 2 weeks to study up? No . . . you learn your tasks as quickly as you can and start doing it to add value to your team. Eventually, through action, you will better learn how your tasks function in harmony with the rest of the team.

How will you explain calculus to a kid who's opening up a text book for the first time? How do you explain multiplication to an 8 year old? You can stand there with charts, graphs, and apples and oranges or you can simply get the kid to start memorizing the multiplication table or figuring out some basic formulas. Just practice it and eventually, there will be understanding . . .

It's easy to tell that a great majority of members here have very little understanding for the dynamics of social interaction. What would you have them do? Read a hundred books? Meditate all day long? In fact, some of your advice to GET OUT THERE and start interacting is advice for 'fake it till' you make it." There doesn't need to be an understanding for this. Do it . . . and eventually, they will get it.

Okay you got me there. But it depends how you take 'Fake it till you make it', from what ive read (and i could be wrong) this mainly meant in terms of 'confidence' and just acting like youve done it before rather than talking about youre ex-stripper girlfriend.

So i guess thats lying but you learn a behaviour by adopting it and repeating it, so its kinda apart of the process.

Like voice control, you 'fake' having a strong voice and slowing it down, being more clear and louder UNTIL your brain has learnt it. Obviously there can be other underlying factors too, its just without this one you wont get good voice control.

_________________
"You don't want girls to think you suck dick at fucking pussy"
-Seth (Superbad)

you guys think about this shit wayyy too much lol. what the fuck does it matter.

_________________
BANNED FOR REPEATEDLY BREAKING THE RULES!

Bosss +1 right on...

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction