I have been on that site puahate.com and it's full of the most bitter losers Ive ever seen. Because the pua material didn't work for them they sit around btiching all day about the community instead of thinking about what they could have done better. I even saw one poster complaining that he didn't have any success after a bootcamp and he didn't even approach one girl. WTF? Was he expecting the trainers to do the approaches for him?

As for the question, I have seen and read a lot of products and out of all of them two guys really stand out to me, Adam Lyons and David Deangelo.

Deangelo's material is great for inner game. I think that RSD and Deangelo's series are very similar and a lot of the points overlap but Deangelo's is more structured. While Tyler is a more dynamic teacher, no doubt about that, and Deangelo's voice at times can put you to sleep, I think Deangelo goes more in depth and cites a lot of sociological and psychological studies to back up his theories giving it an authentic feel. His Deep Inner Game series with Dr Paul and his Advanced 2nd Edition series are the two best products I've seen for Inner Game. He is also one hell of a bookworm, the guy has read more psychological books than I've had hot dinners and that might be the reason he is such an encyclopedia.

My favourite PUA trainer for outer game has to be Adam Lyons. I have seen a lot of videos of Adam Lyons seminars and the talks at the Under 21 Convention and to me he is the one who makes the most sense. Adam Lyons is another psychology geek who uses a lot of psychological techniques but unlike Mystery his techniques won't make you weird. I think it's very important to be normal if you want to game girls because it's all well and good pushing their attraction buttons but if you are someone she'd be embarrassed to be seen with she's not going anywhere near you.

Kezia is another trainer I like, her book was very good and she is one of the few women who'll give you an honest opinion on what really attracts women. In fact she seems very cynical of women.

A lot of people like David X but I saw his seminar and wasn't very impressed. To me he seems very misogynistic and he'd come out with things like "apart from your mother and you sister, every other women's a slut." I stopped watching after that.

I read Neil Strauss book Rules of The Game and to me thats a book for the really socially awkward, I remember a challenge to say hello to five women or to ask directions from five women or something like that. Thanks but I do have female friends and I am able to talk to women, I just need to get them attracted to me. If you're like me give that book a pass.

Like another poster said I don't think theres such a thing as a scam, just advice you don't agree with. Find trainers who make sense to you and go out and try their material, it doesn't have to be expensive, most of the products can be free if you know where to look

i think the idea behind PUAhate was usefull in the begining, there a lots of gurus out there and many of them are frauds or simple copy paste or other gurus and a site that warn you against those is really something great to have.

But like any 4chan thread it went to hell after a while. Is difficult to find really insightfull critiques to system and avoid trolls or selfhating idiots who complains about their luck looking for some reasuring that the blame falls into the system and not them

there will always be complainers, ungrateful people and people full of excuses...

David Dangelo is where every beginer should start with double your dating... I do not know if he gets girls or not, nor do i care, cause i used his stuff and it worked for me... Even though i been a natural and pretty much figure all this stuff on my own by trial and error... Then with the book the game i started to see the psychology of why i was good as a natural... All this pua stuff comes from mystery and David Dangelo, but for what i heard mystery sloppy writer, so get the book the game....Same shit!

Then study everybody and see who goes more with your style and lifestyle for me i am similar in personality etc... To Gambler and Sinn, but my game is dance game... Anyways they all descendants of mystery.

P.S. I teach martial arts, there are better martial artist than me who are horrible teachers, i am probably not as good as them, but my students learn faster with me, a good talent does not make you a good teacher...

This site, youtube, and keys to the vip(youtube) have everything you will ever need, you need to approach and forget all this bs, with time, failures, successes you will get a feel for it...


My game is dance floor game, and this guy pretty good

https://www.youtube.com/user/flirt2thebeat

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Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

You can either blame other people for your failures and just accept defeat. Or accept that you did something wrong, don't complain and learn for next time. The choice is up to each one of us to decide what life we want.

When it comes to learning anything it is easiest to learn from someone who had a similar journey. If you ask a natural athlete how to play a sport, the would just say practice and get good. But someone who started of bad could break the experience down and share info that the natural athlete just thought was either common knowledge or not a big deal.

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Now offering 1-on-1 in person counseling in NYC. For more info, send a PM

Adam has a few interesting things, but only goes halfway. From the sounds of it this is the same issue with Gambler, Juggler, David D. and countless others.

Brad P. if that's you're style has solid bit of advice. MM for the idea of a structure to game and Neil for an interesting read. Sinn has some good advice, but most of it doesn't have much to do with pick up directly.

Although, after testing just about everything out there I've found 95% is either too bloated, unnecessary, or is working for a particular guy for a reason other than the reason he thinks and will work for you if your style matches his style.

_________________
Hi, I'm A. Fahren and I'm an author. I love to travel, socialize, and am hopelessly addicted to movies. That's about it.

I like sinn a lot, he does not waste time... I like that..

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

Ok, here are my 2 cents:

Ross Jeffries
He's the founder of the community. The guy's got experience. Also, if he's ugly and old and gets laid, why can't you?
POWERFUL material, not only for picking up women, but also for general persuasion and sales. The way he applies NLP to change the way you speak is a genius work.
People who talk crap about him are only memorizing patterns and not really understanding the principles.
His tools for changing inner game are powerful too. You need to try his meditation stuff.
Bad sides: You must have a complete understanding of the material before being able to use it.

Mystery
I'm not a fan of his method, but this guy needs credit for lots of concepts in the community. Most instructors are ripping him off these days.

Swinggcat
He's got powerful tools, you can see a lot of NLP influences in him, such as the way he uses frames.
Bad sides: Needs tons of practice to get good.

Hypnotica
Doesn't have lots of products that'll help your game, but this guy's inner game is solid. There are good motivational speeches of him on how to be a powerful man.

Mehow
I like his products. He started using Mystery Method, but now it's geared towards using lots of tools in a naturalized way, aimed at acting like a natural player. And I kind of agree with his way of putting this. You can't really become a natural if you aren't already, you can only mimic a natural.
The infield videos are GOLD.

Sinn
Good for day game. Uncovers stuff that Mystery is so blind about.

David Deagenlo
Good inner game stuff. Cocky&Funny is also solid but doesn't work on all women.

Tyler Durden
The blueprint decoded is the best inner game product I've ever seen.

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"Their compliance is,
'Does she grab your hand?' F*ck you! I want to grab her mind. If I can
grab her mind, she'll be grabbing whatever I want, any way I want her to." - Ross Jeffries

You'll gonna hate me for this

The best product to get laid is you.

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How my life looks like right now: STUDY HARD, PARTY HARD

Although, there is a definite disconnect between some of the things he says work and the reasoning he places behind them. Of course this is easily seen if you take the time to test out some of his stuff and it isn't a make it or break it situation so it isn't really a problem.

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Hi, I'm A. Fahren and I'm an author. I love to travel, socialize, and am hopelessly addicted to movies. That's about it.

I wasted a semester using MM. It didn't work. This made me realize something very important: contrary to what his followers say, MM does not work for everyone; it is not the one-size-fits-all foundation of all seduction.

Now I realize that there's a step 0 that comes before picking a method to use. It's going out there, talking to women, and finding out what you already have that is appealing to women. Only then should you pick a method, and pick one that uses it. This thread is not going to do that for you!

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Trip on acid, not your dick!

these are PUA's whose styles I'm familiar more or less and they all seem legit.

RSD is quite complicated to understand if you don't have practice...so go practice for a year, rewatch blueprint and tell me what you think about it...a lot more starts making sense.

Still, IMHO the best for beginners is Zan Perrion's "Way of the natural"-its simple, motivational, no creepy staff...and btw, if you get to listen to it, pay attention because although he does mention all the basic technicalities you might need, he won't keep repeating them.

"The way of the natural"+ a lot of practice(do challenges for example) will get your personal life problems handled...and after about a year of practice...if you still feel the need for further self-improvement...check out some of staff Warped mentioned.

Also, I've heard of "Ars Amarata" which is Zan's relatively new program, but I haven't checked it out yet. As far as I know its the same concepts from The way of the natural+weekly challenges designed by Zan himself. I'm so excited to check it out.

others who have good reputation, but I am not with any material of include:
Hypnotica,
Vin Di Carlo,(I've heard his "Pandora's Box" is crap, but "Attraction Code" is legit)
David X.

Also thanks for the reply about old school PUAs...I'm checking TokyoPua right now. I never actually looked into ASF but seems like there is something to be taken from there.

P.S. About Mystery and Ross Jeffries...I find MM and SS to be too complicated. Some people find it useful. However, the fact that most of these people are still virgins speaks for itself.

A year, really? Three months should be all the work (3-4 times a week for 1-3 hours) you need to put in before you learn a system. I know that's all time it takes to become proficient in my natural + scripted fusion style game. Less time if you’re already familiar with a style of game.
Mystery Method was invaluable for me starting out with proper game because it showed me there was a way to organize your thoughts and to a lesser extent the process. Granted I threw most of the specifics out because they weren't tailored to my style.

A few bits in speed seduction, or rather NLP, are useful. Overall I'd also say it is too complicated and unlike other systems if you screw up or aren't very good you run the risk of coming off as a creepy guy.

_________________
Hi, I'm A. Fahren and I'm an author. I love to travel, socialize, and am hopelessly addicted to movies. That's about it.