your state of mind really concerns me to see man. Why not take a break from all this for a while.. this site, the drugs, the women. All the things that can be detrimental to your mental health if used wrong.

And just go hiking for a couple of nights, or on a holiday If you can afford it. Breath. Eat. Sleep. Try find some mental clarity.

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I'ma be what I set out to be, without a doubt undoubtedly, and all those who look down on me I'm tearin down your balcony, no if ands or buts, don't try to ask him why or how can he

Boarding schools and military academies train people as early as they can walk.

Sporting athletes start from a very young age.

There are immature people who are young and immature people who are old.

A healthy respect for learning can come from anyone.

A lot of people say they want success with women, because they are afraid to say they want to develop confidence to help them in all aspects of their life.

Yes balance is the key. as this hobby can turn into an obsession.

thank you.

_________________
Meet and Wing.

direct-game-birmingham-friends-that-wil ... 30930.html

The Jackal an Introduction.
[link]

The Field Reports.
[link]

The Lay Reports.
[link]

under 21-get a lifestyle, a few pointers on natural game and hopefully u'll not need anything else. Also when you're younger, its easier to undertake to big changes in life.

1) The Quarter Life Crisis:
You are basing a quarter life crisis on talking to other teens. If you see a difference between the way you interact and how teens interact that means you are maturing. In my opinion that is never a bad thing. As for a quarter life crisis itself, grow the fuck up who cares about that just enjoy life. Letting certain skills with women develop naturally can easily be done while practicing PU as long as the community sends that person in the correct direction.

2) Life:
I disagree, people can multitask. However, if you feel that you can not balance work, school, social life, and pick up then you probably should not being doing this.

3) Logistics:
The thing here is that most people date among their age groups. So those kids who live at home with parents are most likely to date women that are going through the same things in life as they are. However even if they do live at home it does not slow down their progress. Hell I live with my parents and my progress is better than 80% of this forum that live on their own.

4) Night Game:
All the biggest clubs where I live are 18+, so there goes part one of your argument. Secondly ANY type of game is a good training ground for pick up. Just socializing with women is great practice. Besides I would rather meet women at a grocery store, Starbucks, etc. At least they have class compared to the whores that go to clubs and rub up against 20 dicks a night to fuck the first guy they think is attractive.


5) Determination:
Any person willing to do pick up and stick with it will get results regardless of age. While younger people may forget about pick up more than older people do; does not make that a bad thing. My theory is people who are older that start pick up stick with it more because they are twice as desperate than younger people that still have tons of options.

5B) "Those that are older typically look for a method that has worked for others and stick to it until they make the results work for them too. This process may take as much as 6 months or more. However because of logistics its easier to practice this new skillset more often than those that can't. I think it's pretty well be proven to get good with this stuff there is no magic fix, you have to PRACTICE!!!"

No shit, of course you have to practice. That is like saying if I sit on this chair I will make a million dollars. It is not only young people that want quick fixes by the way. It is both old and young people. Do not be biased when trying to present an argument.

5C) "When you are still in high school, need a ride from mom to go out, don't have your own place, or your own schedule, or your own money....it gets complicated to try to really apply pick up to your life! Not to mention you are still figuring out who you are as a person and developing your own identity."

The few high school students that do not have cars are usually those who are freshmen and sophomores. Assuming that they do not have their own money or schedule is just stupid. My sister is in high school and has more of a schedule to her life than most who are grown up not mentioning is more responsible than many I know older than her. P.S. In my opinion the point of learning pick up is to become a better rounded person and learn to enjoy life. I do not see how that is a bad thing.

One last thing. If you want to effectively present an argument get rid of the fallacies and over generalizations because they are all over your writings.


--------

EDIT:

In conclusion it is not age in which an individual should be concerned about but rather their maturity level.

_________________
Sinceriously,
Serj

I started pickup at about 16. It taught me a lot of things. I learned to set myself goals and reach them. I learned to be determined. I learned to start living a more healthy lifestyle and having a more realistic mindset. It made me realize that when people say practice makes perfect they really meant PRACTICE. It taught me to accept there are no quick fixes. When I needed money I went job hunting I didn't rely oin my parents. When I had tests I studied. Just because I wanted to be the best I can be.

I'm 18 almost 19 now. There is nothing in my life that I need to change. Sure there are stuff that I WANT to change, but who doesn't?

I agree with most of your points, there are negatives to PUA. However it depends on the person. Not the age.

thanks for your concern .. yes im taking break... im not really chasing woman or doing anything negative... sometimes i fuck a girl and if i really meet a good woman i will date her..but for now im more important...

pickup is not for everyone .. how you grew up and how your parents were are huge factors.. you have also personality factors and biology factors.. Of course there are always risks in life. pickup or social dynamics is not a game where you can be emotional or caring , it's not a game where you can be weak or without boundaries.

if you are new to pickup .. just do daygame..

when you are 18 or 19 you don't know shit .. when you are younger than 21 you don't know shit.. most of you didn't deal with pregnancy , bipolar/ borderline girlfriends , woman who just fucked you up in relationships..most of you guys didn't got engaged or didn't got married.. what the fuck do you know ? So getting after a few things taught you how to pay your bills ? i paid my bills and eduction before i got into pickup, i had my own house when i was 17...

just finish school...make friends .. instead of fucking woman just make them your friends.. we are all human , when you meet a really hot girl and she's really into you it's hard to say - especially when you are young. go into pickup when you are 23 or something.. you got your whole life in front of you.

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AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526

I disagree with this.

When I was a newbie about 4 years ago I didnt know anything at all. What got me going and speeded up my learning progress was that I:

A. Gamed constantly, you gotta live eat and breathe game.

B. Did every kind of game I could think of. Nightgame, daygame, different methods.

C. Was fearless. I did my AMOG practice in biker bars and approached anyone of and HB rating regardless of AA.

D. Did not take anything personal. Just accept that in the beginning you suck, totally! Everything that goes wrong is your own fault. This is how you find out what you are doing wrong. And it is totally ok to suck, you just started.

This is how you learn.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

ok .. you don't have to do daygame.. but daygame does have less negative external influences ..

about that learning thing... that is how YOU learned .. that does not work for everyone , besides most people get caught up in game and suffered from a huge identity crisis.. many guys had this .. mystery , jeffy from RSD..

some guys do well when they sarge 1 or 2 times every week... you are not the game... it's just you going out meeting some chicks .. you are not a pua, you are just you. research shows that there are people with different psychologies.. HSP people or empaths...im not saying it's bad to game , im only saying some people are more affected by life experiences , new sitations and external influences than other people.

_________________
AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526

19 year old here- Lets see what we can do:


Before I address your points I find that age in connection to ones state of mind / being is not as absolute as many people think- I've met 25 year olds that aren't as 'adult' as myself and about a year ago I've met a 20 year old that could honestly give off a 'father' vibe.

#1: (partially address this in previous little section)
I agree that many people when actively pursuing certain social scenes (e.g. going out to parties instead of sitting at home playing video games) will naturally develop a mediocre set of skills and comfort- but you seem to suggest this is limited to people of 21 and younger. Does the same thing not work for those who are going on 30? To many PUAs the goal isn't to so much achieve that level of natural mediocrity, but to surpass that into a state of superiority and elevated control over this part of our lives- something that merely 'exposing yourself' will not get you.

#2
Partially agree- a friend of mine failed his first year in University (his first year living alone, his first year having a job, etcetera) due to excessive sarging. However the word to take note of is 'excessive', if you don't cross this barrier you should be perfectly fine.

#3 & #4
I suppose this is also affected by country of residence, here in the Netherlands the government funds our entire University education so lack of money (monthly income from government aid), lack of transport (free high quality public transport) or problems with housing (extra support for living on your own) is not as much of a problem here. @#4- Again probably a problem limited to the USA, most of our clubs are 18+. (Several 'special' clubs for the 16-17 crowds)

#5
I somewhat agreement with you here- When I started studying 'pick-up' I believe I was 16, possibly 17 and spend almost all of my time as a theory junky. I was still in fairly unbalanced of a state which does require one to be a lot more enthusiastic and dedicated to stick with it than at a more adult state.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

I'd say as long as you're mentally ready for it and above the age of 16, you can start learning these things- while the process does become more efficient and accessible (don't try and f-close a cold target at age 16) as you progress towards 25 I wouldn't say that's a reason to just leave it in a dark corner until then.

I don't really think you should approach girls you're not attracted to. It's a waste of both of your time.

Hard wiring your brain for positive reinforcement through usage of women like a sock puppet = misery.

I don't know anybody who was very active with this stuff at a young age who enjoys healthy relationships as an adult. Starting off every relationship with one foot already out the door is ironic, tiring, habitual, and difficult to correct.

You are a wise man sir! Maybe I should retitle the post...but then again maybe not cause it's finally getting a good discussion brewing around here.

I think the point has been very well made that it doesn't as much depend on the "age" of the person but the maturity level in which they are at with their life. There are things that happen to us at young ages that make some of us grow up before our time so to speak... (Wait isn't that a Mystery routine) see I can't seperate reality from PUA anymore...

LOL. No seriously, I am here going on record saying it is possible a younger person could go forth with PUA and be just fine depending on some other factors. However, I will remain steadfast in saying that the majority of those in that lower age bracket are not aware of the harm they are causing themselves by not developing these things naturally.

And while I do appreciate you younger guys posting who have started game when you were 16 and now you're 19 kinda thing if you are still under 21 and no closer to your mid 20s it's harder for you to say you weren't effected in a negative way. I'm sorry but you are still very young to be making that determination where as someone who's older in the mid 20s to 30s who started in their teens I think will have a better perspective on that which I'm sure you agree.

The bottom line summary is that at an earlier age in life it's hard to know all of the negatives that PUA may bring in your life, you are still developing, and PUA is a life altering way of doing things. You may have developed certain skillsets naturally if put in those situations. Just like the caveman developed the skillset of fire out of "Need" so might you develop some natural game. Can you just go to PUA instead for your game certainly being a mature person regardless of age you can make that decision. Just realize there are consequences to any decision you make.

Just like there is a certain age in which you have to wait to buy cigarrettes and alcohol in my country (US) because of the very negative consequences regarding those decisions it gave me the idea that potentially younger people may not be FULLY aware of the impact of decision they just made.

_________________
Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

I think the point has been very well made that it doesn't as much depend on the "age" of the person but the maturity level in which they are at with their life. There are things that happen to us at young ages that make some of us grow up before our time so to speak... (Wait isn't that a Mystery routine) see I can't seperate reality from PUA anymore...

Agree with sentence one and two.
Sentence three is just a cheap way to try to get a reader to agree with you.

LOL. No seriously, I am here going on record saying it is possible a younger person could go forth with PUA and be just fine depending on some other factors. However, I will remain steadfast in saying that the majority of those in that lower age bracket are not aware of the harm they are causing themselves by not developing these things naturally.

This I can agree on which is why I said previously that we as a community should send people in the right direction.

And while I do appreciate you younger guys posting who have started game when you were 16 and now you're 19 kinda thing if you are still under 21 and no closer to your mid 20s it's harder for you to say you weren't effected in a negative way. I'm sorry but you are still very young to be making that determination where as someone who's older in the mid 20s to 30s who started in their teens I think will have a better perspective on that which I'm sure you agree.

The thing is, every single decision in life has a con to it. So in other words pick your poison.
I will not deny that there is a possibility that I may have affected my life in a negative way but, I can easily think of how my life could be much worse off without pick up.
I went from being an anti-social person with little to no real friends and didn’t care about a single thing to being social person, making new friends, and turned my life around.
For me the pros outweighing the cons by far.
Without pick up I would most likely still be the same guy I was years ago who sat inside playing World of Warcraft.
I believe without a 100% doubt in my mind I made the right decision and we can help others take the same steps.

P.S. Trying to use your age and "wisdom" as a reason does not make you right. Everyone has a life that is different. Maybe learning about pick up at a young age for you did not help but, for many it has.

The bottom line summary is that at an earlier age in life it's hard to know all of the negatives that PUA may bring in your life, you are still developing, and PUA is a life altering way of doing things. You may have developed certain skillsets naturally if put in those situations. Just like the caveman developed the skillset of fire out of "Need" so might you develop some natural game. Can you just go to PUA instead for your game certainly being a mature person regardless of age you can make that decision. Just realize there are consequences to any decision you make.

The bottom line is that you do not know the future. It is called taking a risk.
Besides I would have rather learned something the wrong way and learn from my mistake than "maybe developing certain skill sets" and hoping that I learned correctly.

Just like there is a certain age in which you have to wait to buy cigarrettes and alcohol in my country (US) because of the very negative consequences regarding those decisions it gave me the idea that potentially younger people may not be FULLY aware of the impact of decision they just made.

Fallacy once again… Cigarettes and alcohol have been proven that there IS very negative consequences to them; however, pick up there is NO proof that severely negative consequences will happen. It is like you are trying to compare the similarities of an elephant and a lizard because they both have four legs.

_________________
Sinceriously,
Serj

If ^this is how you describe pick up, you're safe . . . but it also really has nothing to do with this discussion.

Kasabi:
If this is how you describe pick up, you're safe . . . but it also really has nothing to do with this discussion.

It shows that positive things can happen from learning about pick up at a young age with the right guidance. I wrote that as an example because J Smooth tends to be very biased towards not learning at a young age due to negative effects. So in reality it has everything to do with this discussion.

_________________
Sinceriously,
Serj