Instead of just assuming that I think everyone is a sheep because I have a thought provoking signature, maybe take a few moments and see what you can give it.

For me, it made me think a lot and it reminded me how everyone in their early teens goes through a misunderstood phase where they think that they are the only one who thinks that way - how peoples' MySpaces only a few years ago were all about branding oneself, giving them a new sense of identity in their very first years of becoming independent from their families and now those very people are now out of that stage.

I thought back to when I used to get bullied because I was different, and was I the only one who was so different, and was I really that different? I fit in perfectly well now.

It also made me think of the book 1984 in which the main protagonist Winston thinks that he is the only conscious individual who is aware to what extent the state is in power; whether anyone else knows about the Thought Police and whether any of the other glassy eyed automotons keep a diary and remember what Eurasia was like before the IngSoc revolution.

That led me to think of politics today, whether people are aware that the world definitely has enough resources to feed all of its inhabitants, and if they knew that, would they change their political views?

I thought about much more and all because of a simple, thought provoking picture. I am a thinker; when I look at art I look not only to appreciate it for what it can give me, but also what I can give it. A bit off topic now but for example, The Unmade Bed, represents pressures of society? lack of time in the modern world? That all we essentially boil down to are the numbers of money, and that due to a high pressure lifestyle and the economy being predominantly tertiary is it not slightly ironic that with a vast array of leisure we would still rather more money than leisure time? All these questions and thoughts to ponder, from what a lot of people class as tasteless crap.

Like those short stories that have a lot of thinking to be done before you can gain the real wisdom from them and have a eureka moment, as a training historian I've learned that different pictures hold many different perspectives depending on their context and era as well as how they are perceived. Sometimes you have to think about things to work out why they are said.

I didn't actually put the picture there for any reason other than I like it and it made me think.

The only difference between the bully and the bullied is a louder voice or a bigger physical frame. The common denominator between the two is a deep lack of social awareness. The "bullied" and the "bully" lack the ability to address the needs of a social group. Thus, they argue . . . and the one with the louder voice or the bigger physical presence wins.

You fit in perfectly now? How do you know? Do people around you remind you? Do the people around you offer "high fives" over your intellect?

All it takes is a satisfaction and comfort of your self. At that point, YOU CAN in fact "jive" with any social group you desire. Remember . . . the dummy can only jive with other dummies. They can NEVER obtain what they DO NOT HAVE. But if you have the ability . . . and you know the needs of a given social group, YOU CAN "jive" with them.

There is a reason that the Wall Street Journal is written at an 8th grade level of written English. Those Phd's and egg heads would much rather communicate at a higher level . . . but they do no do this. They NEED to communicate to a larger audience. In order to achieve these goals, they DUMB THEMSELVES down.

What is your goal? Is it to continuously prove how "smart" you are regardless of whether others understand it or not? . . . Or is it to communicate to others how/what you feel so that they can UNDERSTAND you?

Accept this and you can fill your life with understanding and affection. Ignore it and you will continue to be "misunderstood". This is YOUR doing . . . you have the power to choose; others do not.

Allright, since I'm in lack of a spoon, I thought scissors would do the trick too. English isn't my main language so as i let it flow, things might not be 100% understandable


The scissors consist out of two big parts that are kept together by a third element. The scissors can't cut when the two part's aren't joined. The are dependent on eachother, they cant cut things from eachother without being joined. As I write this I think how we can relate this to our own lives, there is probably a way to relate this to our lives yes, but do we absolutely need to find deeper meanings in every object? We can derive life lessons from probably every object on the earth. So there would be a billion life lessons to be learned. The problem here however is that because we tend to think so much about these messages that objects enhold, we give the messages alot more value than they have ( or maybe we are giving them the right amount of value that they diserve ). The point is that we rediscover obvious things in life, things we have never thought of. Are these thoughts useful? Would it be useful to me to see scissors as the relation that two people need eachother in order to cut things apart, in order to damage and split others off from another group. They couldn't cut if they were alone. But what if the scissor had three blades? Would that mean that there were 3 people needed to cut, must you simplify things to their elemental form to do their function or would we see a wrong message in this.

Most of the messages we would get from objects would be useless or incorrect? Maybe we relate to the objects and reflect their capabilities into our own lives. We may see personal messages that our unconscious sends us when we relate to these objects. Should we take these messages seriously and start thinking about messages in all objects? No, but if you want to think about life, maybe an object is a good thing to start off from. If it just catches your attention and makes you think about it in a non forced way, maybe it is because we can can or want to relate to the object.

Here my mind went blank on the object-message theory. For me it is completed here and any more words would just redecribe the core messages. I don't like people who say the same stuff over and over again but in other ways to formulate them, so I won't do it either.

Ever noticed how scissors don't have an up or down side? They cut exactly the same no matter what side is up, well that is the case with the normal standard scissors, there are other types of scissors who don't have this property.

I kind of blocked myself here into writing deeper thoughts about the scissors as I questioned the usefulness of seeking messages in random objects, but let's give it a go and see what comes out.

If we take the two persons who can only cut things apart when they are joined, there would be other thigns needed in order to relate to the scissors than only two blades that cut. There is an external force needed that makes them want them to cut and there is one point the two blades have in common before they would cut. The persons would need a common problem or reason to find eachother to cut things and they both need an external force to push them to cut things.

This external force could be society or the environment that FORCES ( hehe) them into these actions. Now this being said, would the brain automatically make senseful messages out of these objects, like they guide you to think logic things so that you can not get a wrong answer? If you just let your mind free that could be the case yes. Seeing as i come again on the message part of objects, it makes me see that the subject was not completed for me yet, I just broke out of the flow of making relations between things. The flow was broken. My mind wasn't free anymore and became conscious, I had full control over my thoughts and this full control made me go blank. It's funny how I called it full control, because if you think about it has not so much to do with controlling since i can't chose to go into unconscious mode right again. The capabilities of the person in unconscious mode are amazing, but how do we get there? Maybe it is trained by exercises like these. If i analyse this it is being relaxed and feeling no pressure, nobody that would judge you for what you say, there are no hesitations to say what you want, you have complete freedom, you do not make an impression on anyone. We want to reach this flow, but how can we reach it if we can't force it? You have to be comfortable and feel the things i just describe in the neighbourhood of other people.

This being said, thank you scissors.

this thread has helped me a lot. i often find myself feeling a bit uncomfortable in conversations because i like to keep them as interesting and useful as possible. i am going to start flowing more and sacrificing some substance.

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Happily Married Since 12/30/09

This is an old topic but I'm thinking you want me to take a look at your writing. Here are my thoughts:

1. Focus more (on your OBJECT)
2. Wander less (which basically means 'focus more')
3. Your writing lacks power. I'm guessing that your conversations also lack power. Work on 1 and 2 and you you will find yourself communicating with more fortitude.

Take a look:
No need for explanations or apologies. You did nothing wrong. Why not just slap the title, "Scissors!" and just go with it?
You lost focus and began thinking too much. If you want to relate scissors to our lives, then do it. If you don't want to relate it to our lives, then don't do it. Had you written. "It would be nice to go fishing with these scissors by sticking it up my ass, attaching a hook to the end and then shaking my ass under water." - I would have told you, "Perfect and powerful." You forgot that there is NO WRONG here other than 'self-censorship'. Unfortunately, you do it too often:
"There are a lot of lessons to be learned . . . but we think so much. Is it useful? Maybe it's not . . . " Woh, woh, woh. . . Take a stance, grab your balls, and just WRITE. Nobody is going to hate you or laugh at you for any stance you choose. Thus far, the only opinion you've had is that you have NO OPINION.

Finally, some interesting thought but still to much 'would', 'could', 'maybe'.

How does this relate to pick up?

The Mystery opener goes, "Do I look a drug dealer?" Right?

How would it sound if you told the girl, "Do I look like a drug dealer? But maybe I don't. I probably don't. But sometimes I do. Maybe tonight I do. Yesterday I didn't. Tomorrow is another day."

Read RX's exploration of the spoon. This guy's got game.

I like to use free association with keeping a journal. I never did growing up, I thought diaries were gay but now I sort of need them. Its nice to write down your day and refresh yourself the next morning, and the past week, it gives you things to talk about. One thing that used to kill me was when people asked what I did that day, or the weekend, I would usually just say "chillin" or something boring most of the time because I got brain overload trying to remember something substantive enough to respond with. Maybe I suck at short term memory or killed too many brain cells doing stupid shit but still it has seemed to improve my ability to lead conversations.

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The best PUA advice is also the best fighting advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ijCSu87 ... rn-1r-4-HM

thanks, so if I want to get better conversational wise I should do this:

- often do some free writing
- focus more on the subject itself, not drifting too much off
- Make statements and not wondering
(Problem here is it was free writing and in my head i was wondering, so i wrote it down)
- be unapologetic

Should i go over to strangers and try to keep them interested as long as possible in something uninteresting as a spoon to train these skills after a few days of free writing training?

What do you guys think a good training plan would be?

I dont know if this has already been mentioned

But wouldnt most conversation start extrinsically ? e.g. canned openers , or things that have been bugging you that you want to ask a friend , or a simple how are you ?
and then generally lead into intrinsic ?

oh and an amazing piece of advice which i read on this forum small and simple

conversations that talk about the present don't go any where , talk about the past and the future

either way great post im going to apply this to my inner game

x

That seems like a plausible principle. Can you elaborate on what you mean by conversations about the present?

Good to see the post get resurrected. I really think there is some good advice here and lots of practical knowledge and experience can be gained from simple exercises such as writing down exactly what you're thinking, or just freewriting about a cup or a spoon.

One of the most important things to remember is to have an opinion. When you are in a conversation about whatever topic, be it something as broad as politics or something as specific as bumblebees, you need to think to yourself:

"What do I have to say about this?"

You will always have something to say. For example, I was having a conversation once about insects or something along those lines, and the conversation led into bees. I brought up bumblebees, and said something like

"Have you ever noticed how much bumblebees suck at flying? It's like their drunk all the time. They suck at flying."

Wasn't scripted or preplanned. It's just what I was thinking about when we were talking about insects. I didn't censor myself, I wasn't afraid to state what I thought about bumblebees, and it got a laugh and kept the conversation going.

Conversations are like their own entity. It's like a being separate from the people who make it up. It's greater than the sum of its parts. So although you have a certain amount of control over a conversation, if you try too hard to control the conversation it becomes too forced and unnatural. It's best to relax and let the conversation lead itself wherever it will go. If you are talking about religion and the topic suddenly leads into travel and then into culture and then into music, go with it. Don't think

"Shit, I had something really good to say about religion, lets go back!"

Let it go, and roll with it. Say whatever you feel about something. Don't inhibit yourself. Don't be apologetic. There is a difference between being 'opinionated' and being 'confident with your perspective of reality'. Once you are in touch with that, you will almost certainly lead more natural and fulfilling conversations.

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-Sharplin
My journal:
sharplins-journal-vt84603.html?highlight=

This shit is pretty dope, i'm feeling all the exercises and what not. Idk for everyone else but I love writing stories. I played free association wtih a fellow student government member this morning. So it was pretty cool.

Very good info.

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You miss 100% of the sets you don't open.
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Very good info.

_________________
You miss 100% of the sets you don't open.
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Havent actually read all the responses to this thread, so maybe someone has already posted this tidbit. I have a few girls, whom, due to distance circumstances, are strictly txt/FB in terms of maintaining a rapport, although at one point, that was not the case. In this context, you are forced to pay attention to their end of the convo, without any distractions (visual, auditory, body language monitoring...etc) and the convos are ALWAYS natural and intimate. Perhaps it is a good excersise to find someone to have a real time chat with online, and monitor your thought processes (afterwards, scroll through the chat history and try to remember what was going on in your head), then translate it into your everyday life? A lot of us put emphasis on maintaining our body language to remain confident in appearance, but I have noticed that you can hit a point in a convo and actually RELY on your nature to convey your genuine interest. We read a lot of NLP stuff that would have us focus hard on both ends of the communication loop and project accordingly, but as it is mentioned repeatedly, the "dance of rapport" is a natural occurance, we try to fabricate it to mind fuck ppl, but if you can genuinely engage someone, letting go of your control is actually more appealing to their subconcious. I am a pretty good natural conversationalist, but will trip up if I am in a position I feel I have to monitor myself (Ie DRUNK at the club ) and I usually can recover if I just admit to how drunk I am and go with the flow, rather than pretend I am not and filter myself through caution. Awesome post my friend, really makes a guy think about all the time he spends not thinking...CHEERS