You say that following the advice/path of others makes you a fake PUA? Seriously? Does going to school make you a fake academic? No. Everyone starts somewhere. The guy who has no idea about pickup will only benefit from reading the Mystery Method, asking for advice on the forum and LEARNING. Get your head out of your ass- you were once that same guy. You weren't born with killer game or you wouldn't be here. You're basically a hypocrite. You learn, practice, learn, and then form your own ideas about what you have learned based on experience.

That has to be the stupidest comment I have ever heard. Going to school gives you knowledge to express your own personality they don't script your actions for you they provide you with information and you choose to express it in your own way. Mystery method teaches you how to clone others as a blanket over your personality to turn on when you need it; you're not simply following others with Mystery Method; you are cloning them

Mystery Method is unnecessarily complex; it was a revolutionary step in pick-up but has run it's course and needs to be put out to pasture; the reason it is still around is because Mystery essentialy has a monopoly on the seduction community with his M3 model and Neil Strauss' book being the gold standard for current and incoming community members.

Obviously you are a strong Mystery Method advocate who hasn't experimented. There are much simpler, easier, more effective ways and the guy who is introduced to Mystery Method by The Game is led straight to Mystery without being offered any other options.

I wasn't born with killer game and chances are you don't have killer game; you're like piano player with sheet music but if someone pulled the sheet music out from under you and asked you to use NO Mystery Method and get a woman using nothing but your own personality you wouldn't be able to do it.

I was not born with any game at all; I came here to learn all I could and view all the community had to offer and create conclusions based on that. I spent over 3 years using and mastering Mystery Method so I know it inside and out and have experienced it and can stack it up against direct seduction.

As for your last comment:

Hypocrite [hip-oh-krit]
Noun
a person who pretends to be what he or she is not [Greek hupokrinein to pretend]

hmm your using someone else's lines and pretending you don't want a woman when in reality you would fuck her in a second. you neg her to disqualify yourself when in reality you are totally into her. You befriend AMOGs and ugly chicks you don't even care about, like or are interested in with the ulterior motive of getting through to the HB. After you get her number you wait two days to call her despite wanting to call her the next day or even earlier.

Mystery Method PUAs come online to ask "Should I have negged here?", "how long should I wait to call?", "What if I telegraph too much interest?" which are all questions anyone not trying to fake a personality display is capable of answering themselves. Mystery Method teaches men to put on a show to supplicate a woman into being attracted to them.

I've opened many women amazingly with "you're absolutley gorgeous and I want to meet you." I don't waste time befriending AMOGs and go straight for the woman I want while the indirect AMOGs are still asking for her opinion on what their favorite dog breed is. I call a woman whenever I feel like it. On a date I won't worry about what she thinks - PERIOD. If I think her hobbies are stupid I won't go out of my way to be mean but I will laugh if I damn well feel like it. I am the man being the selector not the selectee.

Let's stack that up with my philosphy: make your true intentions known and do and say whatever you feel like; bring the woman into your reality.

Let's stack up Mystery Method's philosophy: start with negs, opinion openers and actively show disinterest or neutrality despite your desire to plow a woman's brains out.

Who's pretending to be something their not? Although I have a lot of respect for what Fin said you're pretty brainwashed by Mystery (Mike Long has done a good job on you) in your argument.

Don't argue a direct pick-up advocate being a hyporite [someone who pretends to be something their not] when you're using a method that is built upon hiding your intentions to a woman for ANY amount of time. If you like a woman sexually and you present to the world or even just her that you don't that alone makes you a hypocrie.

- Chris

After you graduate from school, at whatever level, you use the knowledge you have learned (not your own found knowledge) and you use it in your life. At this forum, and through reading various methods, you use the advice in your life. Both ways, they are used to shape your attitudes and course of life. Is learning calculus natural? Would you have found calculus on your own? No, yet you use it in your job as an architect. Similarly, someone that uses 'unnatural' game is utilizing knowledge for their own goals. This isn't fake. There's no such thing as originality- everything you are is not genuinely yours.


You must have a reading comprehension problem. Where did I say that I advocate the Mystery Method? No where. Keep reading. I said that all methods have value- they all contribute to your own game- a combination of things you have learned that work and don't work. Before you make assumptions about me, make sure that they are based on something. I value the Mystery Method no more than any method out there.

Make less assumptions, they just make you look stupid and like a loose-cannon. And also, a hypocrite is someone that preaches one thing and does the exact opposite. The OP says that he relies solely on natural game, yet he began here- he takes people's advice, he reads different methods and he forms his own conclusions. And this, is what my point was in the first place. Foundly enough, you were arguing/insulting someone that has the same opinion that you do.

Instead of ripping one method apart, perhaps it's good to take everything in stride. I'm a fan of a lil bit of everything, so I've taken bits of MM that seem useful. However, MM was created purposefully complicated and with additions so Mystery can continue to make money.

Perhaps it's not neccessarily the method, but the effect it has on those who "know" it. Perhaps confidence and conviction are really the only deciding factors...

Give any guy with confidence or self image issues a lesson in Mystery Method and send him out into the field. He'll FAIL! You can tell someone what openers and routines to use but it doesn't mean anything if they're betrayed by their body language or deliver them meekly and without confidence.

Look through the Mystery Method and try to find a place where it says "pretend to be this person." It doesn't. It gives you guidelines for playing the game, because that's all this is. Most things in life are a game. It's the reason Strauss called his book what he did.

So I'll never understand the concept that MM is a way of giving yourself a fake personality to attract women. If a series of guidelines and phases makes things too artificial to you, whatever. It isn't about lying and misrepresenting yourself, it's about following a ruleset in such a way that your behavior is more alpha and you come off as having a high intrinsic value.

If you want to rage against something, rage against the value system. A woman is going to immediately size up a man and determine if he's of high enough value to go out with her. Now imagine how many AFCs get blown out because they've never traveled across Europe or they don't have stories about base jumping. And how many of those AFCs might have had genuine, compatible personalities that would have clicked with the girl had she given him a chance?

MM is just a way of getting around the initial value barrier so that you can get face time with a girl and show her how great you really are.

I just had to give my opinion...

The only thing you need is confidence

The M3 is the best method for most of the people because most of the people is new... What do you want when you are new... a step by step guide.

M3 is one of the few methods with a solid structure, it is A+B+C=D and when you are a new guy, that still a virgin and can't hardly talk to a girl, that helps a lot, thats why it is *consider* the best method, yeah it has a lot of support from Neil and the book and more... but the key point is that it has a structure, it is like a check list. If you told a new guy to go to the hottest girl and ask him to say a Direct, spontaneously line... ( not a Canned Line) he will Crash and Burn because of the lack of Inner Game...

The methods and routines were created to give confidence...


If you haven't approached a girl in your life, you want to have something to say ... so they give you a guideline, they give you,routines so after some attempts you build confidence knowing that you have something to say and that you won't panic, because you know how to say.

They want you to get the correct mind set... Throw NEGs, pretend disinterest... why? to get you in the mind set that otherwise you couldn't have unless you had enough women in your life that you don't need any particularly and clearly you don't, so they tell you that to make you realize that thats what a woman is looking for... and that is what you have to become... and when you have enough women you won't be faking disinterest, you will show it because it is true... you don't need that special girl.


The third generation will be based in natural direct game... but they will start with the canned stuff and they will hit bottom hard... but they will learn.

I also do Direct Game and I love it... but you have to understand direct game as an advance technique not as a beginners technique...

cn12 there are many methods because we all are different, you might be good with cold reading but I'm better at being direct, and so on... you might be good at C&F but I work better with Prizeability, there are different methods because everyone is different and if M3 doesn't work for you it doesn't mean it is a bad method.

We aren't fakers, We are Artists and We Perform in the field, doing what We love

Success,

XFMAN

_________________


My website: www.pualife.webs.com

New TWITTER account: http://twitter.com/xfman1

Facebook: xf_pua@hotmail.com

Agreed 100%
On the Mind of Mystery DVD set on Mystery's Holy Grail DVD he uses the same lines with every woman he meets; this is not natural or real it is puting on a show and on top of it most people use someone else's lines for their routine.
Because a person uses the same lines and techniques [Jealous girlfriend, best friends test, the cube, ect.] over and over. These are not expressive of their personalities; everyone was taught these techniques, openers and lines by someone else and copies them.
If you're interested in a girl and you're not telling her or using negs, false time contraints, uninterested body language when your'e interested you are lying [ulterior motives] and misrepresenting your intentions. You don't need a ruleset. So few true alphas are at there that after having done over 1,000 direct approaches I can tell you that going up and saying, "You're absolutley beautiful and I want to get to know you" to HB10 with full confidence and dominance over reality is enough of an alpha display to convey high intrinsic value without all the wasted time and effort of A1+A2; I don't waste time trying to prove myself to a woman. I state my intentions and in most cases a woman will light up like a christmas tree at an alpha male who can approach them in this manner and is not afraid to be a man who speaks his mind directly and takes what he wants.
Once again, going up and saying, "You're absolutley beautiful and I want to get to know you" to HB10 with full confidence and dominance over reality is enough of an alpha display to convey high intrinsic value without all the wasted time and effort of A1+A2. AFCs get blown out because they will go up cocky and say, "hey baby wanna fuck" or go the other route and stutteringly say, "Hi, I think you're really beautiful want to get some coffee." and show no direct interest in the woman whatsoever. Having not used direct you are extremely confused about how the value system works because Mystery holds a complex method which dominates the mainstream so that he can make money.

If a woman says to me "I have a boyfriend" I will often remain silent and confidently keep looking her straight in the eye with a slight smile/grin until she says something else which often is something along the lines of, "so what's your name?" and it becomes as if she has never even mentioned the boyfriend and I just passed a HUGE shit test where most AFCs would go, "okay tell him he's a lucky man" or just walk away feeling rejected.

As far as how many AFCs get thrown out because they haven't had any really amazingly unique experiences; none with direct because they open and skip right to A3 and go from there. I don't waste time with DHVs or negs or any of that shit. My alpha personality is enough to attract a woman on it's own and I don't need any models, methods or anything else and neither does any other man. Of course if Mystery Method is all you have seen other than AFCdom you will think that you need them but until you experience the power of a direct approach for yourself you won't fully grasp it's power and effectivness.
Try direct; really try it you will get far better initial value with most women than you could ever dream of with M3. I have worked with both extensivley for over a decade in the community; I've used and mastered both methods through and through.

Let me get this thing straight ... I saw in one of your post you use a line, something like: "The girls sitting next to me " and that was in a party and then in your webpage you use the same "Opener" in other place... so now your being unnatural and unreal as Mystery is ?? Because you use the same line twice?

_________________


My website: www.pualife.webs.com

New TWITTER account: http://twitter.com/xfman1

Facebook: xf_pua@hotmail.com

I am being honest. There is a girl sitting next to me and I want to find out if she is as friendly as she is cute.

When you ask a woman's opinion in A2 is the story true and are you genuinley interested in hearing her opinion. Are you genuinley feeling and showing her, "hey I really want to hear what you think because I value what you have to say" and are you showing body language and responding in a way that is truly expressive of how you are feeling?

To answer your question I am by no means being unreal as Mystery is; he could give a shit less about what a woman's opinion is on a story he made up whereas I am telling a woman the truth, being honest about my feelings and do not have an ulterior motive [I'm not making my feelings or intentions look like I want an opinion when I really want the girl]. The girl clearly knows that I want her and how I feel.

- Chris

Indirect Game? Direct Game? Confidence? Canned material?

Psh. Screw all that stuff. You're all wrong. All you need to do is to buy the woman lots and lots of gifts while being as nice as possible.

jk

IT ALL WORKS. They are all just different tools for different types of artists. It all boils down to preference and style.

Always count on Chief to come in and be comic relief! :p

Hey

I use various of method's besides MM. MM is a starting point for AFC's to get where they want to go-however, they need to branch out into their own style or system. However, being Alpha male is natural-however, some don't know how to tap into the inner powers of being an alpha male. Some think it's being an asshole, but some that out there that do it right. I however, experimented with both direct and indirect methods. When I feel the babe is so hot-it's pointless to tell her she's hot because she already knows she hots. However a HB4-7 will be more likely to put a smile on her face when she here's she a cutie pie. There's are some 9's that have an mentality of a 5 or a 6. There's some 4 and 6's that have an mentality that is a 10. I get what you're saying Chris but in order for the AFC's to reach that point will have to build enough stronger inner game. I think my friend Rye can agree. It's not about outter game that counts it more about the inner game and who you are fundamentally. If you have a strong frame and supreme confidence then you shouldn't have a big problem opening sets. They should open you up on the spot. Rye is right the game is revolutionalize different espects and changing dynamically. Long time ago people used indirect because it was the only way to go; however it's a crutch for some-however once you break way from it then you can start putting the building blocks of the next level of the game in order. You can have all the techniques and tactics you want but if you don't have a strong inner game then you're literally fucked! Aren't you? Yes. I'm the kinda person that isn't afraid of telling a girl what I think is stupid and what isn't. So everyone here has a point and so does you Chris.

_________________
"Women Love What They Can't Have!"

My official underground website

http://f4fc0878.linkbucks.com

The funny thing is MOST of the time, I don't have approach anxiety. I can go up to any girl and open them with anything from "Hi, I'm Charlie" to my own opinion openers (which, funnily enough, I only ask as I tend to want to know the answers). In my head, it's only asking someone a question, and that's not exactly a hard thing to do - much like asking someone the time. In a way, direct game like Shock and Awe or the Apocolypse Opener are routines (and have been promoted as such), I guess it's a matter of definition.

However where I have issues is what to say after opening, and I'm starting to find that having a few routines in my pocket helps with not running out of things to say. I notice in your field report that you linked to you were talking to the girl for an hour at least. I can talk with girls but rarely in a way that gets them sexually attracted to me.

So knowing a few routines and a few steps to develop that seems like it will help me. In your original post it may have been helpful to point out how to get to the place you are without using routines / MM etc. rather than just bashing MM, as then you would have prevented a lot of people critising you for sounding arrogant, which frankly you did, and also actually helped people here - which is what you say you want to do. (And probably sold some copies of your book in the process )

So I have a question for you if you would care to help: as I'm someone who can approach, but has problems after that, can you provide any advice? Would your book help?

If you are hunched over with awful Body Laungauge, dressed like a clown and look like the elephant man, you will fail at PU.

Outer game allows people to bond throught the use of games, funny stories etc. It acts like a social lubricant, allowing people to jell.

Yeah the cube is a reused cliche game - but its fun.

Yeah the story of the fight is overused - but it gets people laughing and talking.

Besides most PUA's who use MM are natural, its their own routine, and they show their actual personality. I have yet to find a MM student who lies about his life or fakes his personality.

After a couple of dates the persons personality always comes through and if you've lied or faked it... ...well the relationship falls apart,

I think this whole natural thing isn't new wave of seduction its just something that more people are becoming aware of, it was discussed a while ago the concept of "assumed attraction".

You're argumment seems to be more against outer game and indirect game as a whole, rather than just MM.

Fair enough I do the same now and again but you can't get the 10s going direct unless you look like brad pitt, If you go indirect and work the room well ,merge sets and have awesome social proof you can get the 10 no problem.