1.) I joined to upgrade my skills. I'm a professional wing. Also, I enjoy helping others. Furthermore, I love learning. (total dork, seriously)

2.) For some girls, yes. It will detract if you act self-conscious about it. If you own it, then you can literally change the way a girl looks at you. Bring her into your frame, into your party (learned this phrase last night in the field), and you are in charge of what she's really looking at.

3.) It is what it is. No reason to hang onto something awkward. Usually, situations like this either turn into something we can joke about later, or create sexual tension if I was interested in them (just didn't want to kiss them yet.)

4.) Physically, it's all about presence and stature. This can be achieved by short men as well as tall men. I'm attracted to a guy who owns his own space, his own experience. I am about as independent a girl as you'll find, but running around with a guy and feeling like he's welcomed me into HIS space is the most comfortable feeling in the world. Let me know if I need to explain this with a different metaphor.

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- Zip

Haha..

Sorry.., no such thing as mind control. Maybe you're confusing this with NLP. I'm reminded of the snake oil salesmen of the old west.

You cannot get a woman into a bedroom that does not want to go into the bedroom. Unless you forcibly do so, or you drug her or something (both which are illegal).

NLP is nothing more than using the power of suggestion and arousal, through indirect communication which can be non verbal, verbal and often a combination of the two. Think of it as charisma for the average Joe.

Nothing immoral about NLP. In any context.

Now if you feel having sex, or the suggestion of having sex by men outside of a committed relationship or a religiously based union is immoral, then that's another issue entirely. But this is far from a male dominated endeavor.

This is typical female behavior. To avoid any responsibility whatsoever for the decision, or the progression to engage in sex. You often here this from women "I was swept off my feet." "It just happened."

No, I'm sorry, it didn't just happen. It was a choice made by two consenting adults. And, absent of drugs or physical force you were a full and willing participant. It takes two to tango. NLP in this context is simply an indirect method of suggestion and arousal.

Whether one chooses to act on these suggestions or this arousal is a personal choice entirely. And a lack of resistance to suggestion does not constitute force or mind control. It simply indicates a predisposition or willingness to engage in such activity.

Now, let's go on a nature hike.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM

Starbuck,

You are absolutely right. I didn't mean to imply or attach anything about morality to my statement that I felt NLP was cheating the system. I could have connotatively chosen a better word.

Also, didn't mean to imply that NLP was like some mind-control maneuver. It's not. I knew I was going to get a lot of flack for my opinion of NLP, and I'm welcoming different perspectives.

I guess what I mean by "cheating" is for me...personally...I don't like too many shortcuts in a game. I'm about serendipity, not about plowing from point A to point B. I'll give you another personal example to help you understand what I mean: I think that using drugs to be more creative is cheating. No moral judgement, I just think it's a shortcut for artistry. And that's just my own personal principle. MANY people disagree with me on this, and I concede to agree to disagree.

I've decided to revisit some NLP literature so I can get a better grasp on it than I obviously have. I'll be excited if I can change my own mind on this.

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- Zip

You're a mature woman Zip.

I suppose in that regard it's simply human nature to want to take credit for things when they go right. And avoid responsibility for them when they go or are perceived to be wrong.

In my opinion, both men and women suffer from this affliction equally.

Since women are the receivers and have to suffer more social consequences in regards to sex outside of social or cultural norms, this is nothing more than a defense mechanism for them.

I agree it's not a fair situation. But one that's also based in biology. Fortunately men don't get pregnant, and their sexual apparatus in on the outside. They are also not a protected commodity due to the reproductive function.

One of my favorite come backs to a women who suggested that 'sex just happens', was that 'sex doesn't just happen', I make it happen. Meaning of course that as a male if I didn't push for sex in some form it would likely never happen. Women are simply not sexually aggressive, in an overt sense. And if they are it's usually a turn off.

Like the MM points out, nowhere in the animal kingdom do females of any species mate with males who are not sexually aggressive. That being said, of course there's a very fine line in all this. One that in a human context I've often compared to walking a tightrope.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM

I have a few questions but could you answer them from your high school level?

1. What did you find attractive when you was in high school?

2. Does kino work well on high school girls?

3.What stood out in a boy (whether talking or not)?

4. Did your friends influence your decisions about relationships or boys?

I would like to know these answers.

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The Drug

1. At school I was attracted to athletes and guys who were socially popular. However, I was also attracted to guys who were "different" from everyone else. I had a secret crush on guys who were extraordinary.

2. Kino works very well on high school girls, as long as it's coming from someone around their own age.

3. Confidence. Humor. Teeth. Body Language (posture).

4. Yes, hugely. If the guy I was thinking about dating was not okayed by all my friends, then I did not date him (publically.) However, I did secretly date a few "different" guys because I really was attracted to them. I just didn't want to lose social status. (Awful, I know. I was a mean girl.)

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- Zip

Damn, no wonder I couldn't buy a date in high school.

Unless it was a secret rendezvous out in the woods some place.

Heck, not much's changed.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM

I agree that sex doesn't just "happen." People who argue this point are probably the same people who blame things they said on their being drunk. Alcohol doesn't MAKE you do say anything you wouldn't think/say...it just lowers inhibitions. Now... before I go linking NLP as a metaphor here, I'm going to do some homework.

P.S. I was ALL about secret rendezvous with guys! Some of my favorite boyfriends from high school were the ones who I made duck if any of my friends walked by. I really should be ashamed of myself, but it was so much fun being awful. (I'm a bit more mature now, I hope)

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- Zip

Heck I was always the bad boy type.

M-65 field jacket, etc.. They used to call us frocks. A cross between a freak and a jock. This was in the midst of school de-segregation in the south.

You didn't invite me and my friends to any parties, unless you wanted some shyt to go down, because we were usually in the middle of it. Rebels without a cause was an apt description. James Dean probably would have been our hero if most of us had knew who he was.

We were shunned by most social groups and the social climbers. Not to our faces of course.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM

Did someone say NLP?

Actually for a good NLP practitionor... givin a willing participant and 20-30 minutes you can change ANYTHING about them... thats enough time to modify someones belief system, pain/pleasure paradigmn, and nueral pathways. That takes care of the three elements that need to align to cause permanent change... Concious, Sub-Concious and Biological.


Now I don't know if I'd say it's like playing Zelda with a walkthrough... there are so many diffrent aspects of NLP... many would more be like starting with 1 extra heart... on up to like using a gameshark to give your self unlimited everything and invicibility.


On advanced levels using NLP can be very very much like mind control... the subject must be receptive, thats it... If they are recptive you can work someones mind over very much like an electrician wiring a circut.

Also if your at that level of expertise in NLP, and you were to take sexual advantage of someone through the use of advanced techniques were the person has little control of there own mind at the time... it could very well be considered rape... similiar to how a proffesional fighter would get assault ith a deadly weapon from a street fight... because his level of expertise makes his body a deadly weapon.

So to sum up. I use alot of more basic NLP in my daily conversations even... it's become completely natural for me to pace people, alter thier submodalitys, elicite emotions and anchor them, conditon responses and anchor those... it's just habitual now I don't even think about it.

And as for why I don't use more advances techniques... It reminds me of hunting for rabbits with a 50Cal... it's just ridiculous overkill... plus if I had to edit someones personality completely to get them to be with me/ me to like them... then why would I want that in the first place?

(Note: I would be willing to share basic NLP with those interested... however the advanced stuff I'm talking about... known as Instant Behaviour Modification, do not ask me about... I refuse to teach that NLP area for PU reasons, or to someone who isn't already a rather advanced NLP practitionor.)

NOW, if only we could open some brains around here and 'drop' this in there . . . lol

Thank you for clearing up that metaphor for me. Starting with an extra heart works much better.

P.S. As soon as NLP came up, I was hoping you'd post since you know so much about NLP and I know so little.

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- Zip

Zip, you'd better be careful talking to Doc..

He might put you under his spell.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM

lmao



Oh and Zip I'm not sure what you were studying on NLP but I'd going to recommend "Awaken the Giant Within" By Tony Robbins (I know I sound like a broken record player) That book will give you an excellent understanding, and probably all you'd need/want to know about it... unless you wanted to become a therapist who worked in NLP (Which is why I have studied it so much, I used to want to do that very thing.)

Ok back to getting Zips opinions everyone!

PS. Great Thread Concept Zip and Tripp (Haha I rhymed)

Hey Zip,

Thanks for taking the time to do this we all appreciate a girls point of view.

I have a 3 questions for you

1) As a girl what are 3 negs that work best on girls (you).
2) As a girl What are 3 of the most effective ways guys can demonstrate higher value.
3) From a girls point of view what are 3 ways to get her comfortable/build comfort.

Thanks for your help/input its much appreciated.