If he has any sort of brain he would. "Well, this hasnt worked for me, lets try something else."

What im saying is that insted of leasrning MM, it would be best to learn a method that removes the negative social conditioning.

For example. 60yoc teaches that escelating is attractive and that you should be sexual from the start. He goes on to explain why this is. Learning this first is a much better approach than being taught (by MM) to hide your sexuality and be indirect until you establish comfort.

_________________
Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

The whole method sets it up as you trying to win the girl over, thus setting her up as the prize...pretty shitty belief.

MM also pushes the belief that you have to prove to the girl that your higher value, thats pretty needy. If anything, she needs to prove herself to me.

MM also pushes the belief that you must "do" to create attraction. Attraction is NATURAL. You have a dick, a women wants a dick..its nature. You dont have to "do" anything, you just have to "be" an attractive person. And no, im not talking about physical looks. When I walk up to a women I dont "do" anything I just "be" myself. For some reason people thinks you cant learn how to do that first. they think they have to learn MM first when infact you can take a good method (RSD, VIn, 60, cory skyy..) and learn how to just "be" first.

I can go on and on about the bad beliefs when I wake up if you wish but for now, bed.

Cheers.

_________________
Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

Warped Mindless,
I'm only telling you this because you're basically on the same side as me in terms of the Mystery Method debate: Learn to fucking spell and/or proofread. Poor spelling = less credibility. It's an ad-hominem thing. Or, if you're going to spell things incorrectly, pretend to be fighting for whatever side I'm not on.
Yes. This is because the MM guys are too inside their own heads so they're missing the point of being in a social setting.
Yes. One of the biggest problems with Mystery Method is that it reinforces an AFC's fear of communicating sexually with women.
Yes. Another one of MM's great faults is that it reinforces an AFC's insecurities by denying him self-validation. It forces the student to continually rely on chasing external validation.
Yes. However, I'm surprised you failed to discuss the benefits of "being in the moment" as opposed to being inside your head. Although the benefits are glaringly obvious to some, there are unfortunately devout MM followers who would try to deny the fact that keeping the M3 model in your head while in field is a bad thing.
Yes. Mystery Method seems to reinforce the idea that the student is supposed to be fighting the world or some shit. An AFC thinks women don't like him as an inherent fact, and MM reinforces that idea by suggesting that he needs to neg women because they have a "higher value." An AFC thinks that other MEN all hate him, and MM reinforces that idea by suggesting that he needs to AMOG them.
Yeah. Just yeah.
Learn how to spell "escalate." It's a pretty important word in this field.
Yes, most of the MM guys fail to understand how useless it is to look for the conventional IOIs. Better alternative? Compliance.
Yes, your typical Mystery Method practitioner would be way too scared to do something like this, just as any everyday AFC would be.
Yes, and the MM guy is being this way because he's in his own head rather than feeling what's in the moment.
Yes.
Yes, it seems as though MM doesn't add enough emphasis to having an abundance mentality at all.
The biggest disadvantage to using the Mystery Method is that it assumes attraction is based on value (aka social value). Attraction is a subjective concept, so I'm not saying that it CAN'T have some connection to value, but any PUA who relies on building social value as a means of seduction is wasting a shit ton of his time and energy. A much much more efficient belief a PUA should use is that attraction is based on arousal. The more you turn her on and/or the more sexual tension you create, the more attraction there is. Social value completely pales in comparison as a means of seduction.

Now, in terms of being a "natural," I don't know what the hell that's even supposed to mean. Is that having solid Inner Game and having your Outer Game reflect your Inner Game? That's what I teach, and if that's how you define "natural," I guess we're in agreement about it.

Also, Ezo has mentioned before that learning Mystery Method when you start off is helpful. I couldn't disagree more. MM not only reinforces a plethora of limiting beliefs he may already have, but it also conditions the student to view the world in a very unenlightened way. As The Doctor (Dave Hart) once put it, it's like growing up while using crutches. If you do that, your legs will get used to relying on crutches and will not develop properly. MM hinders students' development in their journey of learning pickup.

Take it from me; I wasted a couple years learning and using MM with minimal results. I did pick up a few useful habits such as microcalibration and using plausible deniability as a logistics tool, but on the whole I would have been much better off not learning MM at all. The sexual tension guys like Gunwitch, 60 Years of Challenge, and Vin DiCarlo are the ones who know what they're actually talking about. RSD? Really good stuff but they're a fucking cult.

By the way, Warped Mindless, you smell strongly of space monkey. Take a bath.

I was using DHV Stories before I got into game. It's not about proving yourself to her, its about telling a good story and if it makes you look more like an AMOG in the process than why should you try to avoid it? It's not like you're going out of your way to do something that won't help your game. IOI's are something that I just have to use whether I want to or not because I learned them lol. Once I knew what IOI's were I always caught them when they were there. Ignore IOI's would be like me looking in the sky and not seeing the color blue.

The main difference between a natural and MM is that the natural is usually doing the same things but he isn't noticing because it's NATURAL. A natural doesn't know what an IOI is but usually he can just sense that he's doing good. The guy working MM game is using a lot more thought when he's gaming. That's not a bad thing but simply put, the natural will usually come out on top.

_________________
Nothing in pick up applies to all women. There's no such thing as rejection... they're just playing hard to get.

totally agree with the post, but i think that the mystery method is largely for people that literally have no idea how to navigate social interactions with girls. That's why it's so successful. Also, I saw Mystery at a bar one time, and it was pretty special watching how well he navigated the bar, he actually looked like a natural in funny clothes, you couldn't tell he was using his method.

_________________
Even the most naturally gifted can learn to become better.

No. Did you not read my original post? MM guys and Naturals are not doing the same thing at all.

_________________
Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

By "successful" im guessing you mean popular. Its popular because Mystery has one hell of a good marketing team.

_________________
Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

well yeh, that's part of it. but i think it's also pretty useful for complete AFCs

_________________
Even the most naturally gifted can learn to become better.

Ways to act like a PUA in this thread

1. If someone disagrees with you, tell them to stop crying for "validation" from you.

2. Always bash MM, always.


I don't really see how MM has negative beliefs. From what I understand of the chat discussion last night, MM is bad because it makes the girl the prize, because you have to neg or DHV to her.

I don't really see how DHVing is a negative belief. I know I'm cool, and I don't see any reason a girl wouldn't want me (apart from me not being brilliant looking), but both of those things count for nothing if the girl doesn't know it.

Body language, you say. "A true alpha would show the girl this without saying anything" But isn't alpha body language a DHV, whether intended or not?

For a girl to fuck a guy, he needs to have some value, I mean a girl isn't going to have sex with a tramp is she? (excluding porn)

Having said this, I do believe the natural method is better, but nothing is perfect! Each to their own. You can bash MM all you want, but if a guy likes MM better you aren't going to change his mind unless he wants you to. It's like the age old theists versus atheists arguments.

Edit

Having now read Chief's post, I can see how it can be limiting in the long run.

Im gonna repeat something Chief said in this very thread in case you missed it. I hope this drives the point home.

"Also, Ezo has mentioned before that learning Mystery Method when you start off is helpful. I couldn't disagree more. MM not only reinforces a plethora of limiting beliefs he may already have, but it also conditions the student to view the world in a very unenlightened way. As The Doctor (Dave Hart) once put it, it's like growing up while using crutches. If you do that, your legs will get used to relying on crutches and will not develop properly. MM hinders students' development in their journey of learning pickup." - Chief

_________________
Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

I started out learning the MM too. And I rarely use it nowadays. Still it gets you out of your house and gets you into the bars and it helps you gathering experience.

I guess it depends on how you learn. I thought it was good to have at least something to fall back on. Then again, it depends on how easy it is for a person to trash old concepts and replace them with new ones when he realizes that they are wrong...

_________________
I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

If you have to go out of your way (such as telling a DHV) for her to know your cool, your not actually very cool.

_________________
Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

The reason MM is so widely accepted, many AFC's who come into this don't feel worthy of women, and have a poor self image and self esteem...MM agrees with this, it says to an AFC, yes your are a worthless little piece of shit, heres the magic pill, say these things, follow this method and you'll get laid.

Its inline with the poor opinion they already have of themselves, and thus seems appealing, a voter is more likely to vote for a politician that shares their principles, a person is more likely to accept a faith that's inline with their views, people want to feel autonomy (self directed) so in terms of PU, a method that appeals most to AFC's is the one that is inline with the negative views they already have of themselves...thus, for most MM is the holy grail.

Wherever theres demand, there will be a supply, so MM is gonna be around for along time, and the new rehashed versions of MM that have the new magic pill, the new thing you have to do/say/get that fixes it all, aren’t going away anytime soon.

The irritating thing is, MM doesn't fix any negative beliefs, it just reinforces the ones you already have, and on top of that adds a whole new layer of shit on top of everything else, and makes you develop this brilliant front of a natural, except its just that, a front...an illusion, and a fragile one at that.

The main point seems to get lost in all the MM bashing that happens, all anyone who rips on MM is trying to say is that there are other ways to do this stuff, easier ways without much of the negative effects.

_________________
Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

Warped Mindless
I can see your point, but before I had ever even heard of the game I used to tell hilarious stories at parties about things that have happened to me or I've done etc, it got me on people's radar very quickly and enabled me to have a warm way into talking to girls.

These cool things have to happen before you can tell them. Like if something crazy went down at a party, it could remind me of one of my experiences like when we stole a boat and chucked it off a roof, everyone loves that story. Leading an impulsive lifestyle makes you anything but boring.