Well first of all, I don't ask a girl out. I tell her to come over to my place or to come join me with what I am doing. If she is busy, then I say no big deal and try again later. That is persistence. I haven't been outright denied by a girl in a very long time. But if she is "busy" for the next three times I ask her to hang out, I will give up. Just because she is busy one time, or flakes during the first couple of times, I view it as a chance to show her how experienced I am with dealing with women and I know how to handle it. Confident persistence.

Personally, I dislike the feeling that I am chasing an uninterested woman, and I agree with your standpoint, as well as doclove's in that you should invest in finding highly interested women of high integrity. Although I think you are misinterpreting my words. I persist through shit tests and other obstacles, not disinterest. In fact, I assume all women are interested in me and usually that is the case. I can say I have never met a woman with integrity by my definition and also never had a loving fulfilling relationship. I am still PERSISTING to find that woman instead of succombing to bitterness over my past experiences. I still believe there is my ideal girl out there somewhere, even though I have had bad experiences.

I guess you and I have differing views of whether the idea of the "one" is even feasible or realistic. I have been in many relationships with several girls and my experience, the "one" is simply your ideal woman projected onto another person and has very little basis in reality. There are some great principles in this post, but I look at them as ways to reframe the interaction to make yourself the PRIZE and am not thoroughly convinced that the "one" soulmate myth is actually real.
Big part of my perspective and game. In fact this is basically all I focus on now. If the girl is meeting my standards or not. I agree 100% with this mentality and until I adopted it, I had very little success with women.
Interesting, do you actually believe this? This is just flat out wrong.
Self-control is sort of what I mean. Basically I mean lets say you go to a club and talk to a girl and she slaps you or something. Some guys will let this ruin their whole night and start believing that no girl likes them or that they aren't attractive just because this ONE girl didn't find them attractive. Not having your state determined by anyone else means you would reframe the rejection and say, wow she has bad taste in men and continue sarging, staying positive and still "in state."

Being in state is feeling good about yourself and the world, feeling like you know your purpose and self. If external events or other's opinions of you can take you out of that state and then you focus on negative things, the past, or otherwise feel helpless or bad, you're reality is not rock solid.

If no matter what happens to you, you stay positive, love yourself and know yourself, you have an attractive, strong reality.

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Ahead of my time, like I live my whole life backwards.

Casthenova:

While I like the principles you work on, it could be worth picking your brain on these things.

1. If you consider yourself already awesome... how do you improve? Where is your motivation. You're living in a fantasy land of "everyone thinks I'm great" but that's a fantasy land... how do you get better than something that is already "fantasy land"?

Where would you attain the motivation to change and improve without first admitting that something is missing in your life?

2. Alot of these self beliefs you've talked about have been beliefs of external validation. "Everyone loves me" .

Now there is NOTHING wrong with external validation, it's a simple thing that occurs in every human beng, regardless of who you are, and searching for it is NOT something to be ashamed of.

But, external validation relies on others, and as such a reality created by beliefs of external validation relies on a constant stream of positive behaviour directed towards you to keep the system fed with enough positive energy to continue supporting your beliefs.

And as a result while it is a strong sense of "feel-good" confidence. It is easily shattered when happy fantasy land through some major or minor event; collides with the real world.

You end up getting plucked out of eden and now have to face that some people WILL hate you and some girls DON'T LIKE YOU and you may just find out you are another brick in the wall!

Now when someones beliefs of "everyone loves me" wins out against that, we call that arrogance, or stubbornness. A sense of purpose and importance that has no merit or basis, and in the short term people like these people, and on the long term people start to realise. This guy is delussional!


Or when someones beliefs finnaly crack, the confidence comes crashing down, with nothing supporting it except external factors. With all those external factors gone, this persons confidence dis-appears like a building with it's foundations blown out from under it.

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Now I'm not suggesting that you are arrogant, or that you even have an externaly based sense of self esteem, but I enquire where does your sense of self belief come from outside of external forces?

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The best kind of core confidence, is a confidence built in yourself, not others, and it does not deal in any facts about how people percieve you. Though those kinds of beliefs can make up the outer shell.

A belief in your ability to progress and to handel tough situations is the best way forward. Trying to build your confidence by only exposing yourself to facts that you want to believe and situations that produce 100% positivity can help build a feel good factor. But doesn't prepare you for the rough and tumble of real life.

Fin - I appreciate your response and questions. This is the best way for people to learn and your perspective can offer me insight into your beliefs.
I am OK with who I am and my past. It wasn't always this way. I am alright with my mistakes, have reframed them and taken responsibility for myself and my own actions while also realizing that I am no longer that same person anymore.

Improvement is my number one priority. Perhaps through a forum, the words come off as if I am totally satisified with my life and where I am at. I am coming from an entirely different angle. I am OK with WHO I AM. Not where I am at. WHO I AM as a human being, what I have done, I don't blame myself and beat myself up anymore over my own past and my own mistakes. I accept myself and I love myself.

Improvement is just a choice that one makes. I am always hungry for success, it is that hunger and inner flame that drives me to succeed. I want to make something out of my life, it isn't for women anymore. I am driven to make myself the best possible life and circumstances. But I am ALRIGHT with making mistakes because I always make sure that I am loving myself.
Possibly my world is a fantasy land but I don't rely on other people to "like" me or "think I am great" I just am myself. Life is too short. I think you and noregret both bring up a great point about living in some sort of so-called "reality" but my questions for you are:

What is reality?
How can you define reality and honestly say that you know it is real?
Aren't we all living in a fantasy and won't we always be?
How can you really know the raw truth of anything or any other person when the nature of our world is constant change?
There is a huge difference between your life and who you are. You can be cool with who you are and still want to improve your life.

Why can't that be the case?
Just because your OK with who you are means you have to give up on achieving?
Why does something have to be "missing" in order to grow?
This is actually my inner game sticking point. Because you can easily convince yourself of some false mentality that you "don't care what others think" but like you said, often times we do care to some extent, it is our nature. I am working on defining my own beliefs, values and identity without being overly obnoxious about my sense of self. I just have changed a lot in the past months. Instead of approaching people with a "I don't care what you think" mentality, I approach them from a frame of self-love and outward love.
I've been here over and over again but the thing is that after you go through this destruction of your own morals and sense of self you return incredibly strong. The reality that I am discussing here is one that is unbreakable. Perhaps you consider that a fantasy principle, but even in the face of rejection, nothing changes the way you feel about yourself when you truly love and value who you really are. I have been rejected in the real world, by people and organizations that I wanted to be a part of. I didn't let this bring me down because I believe in myself. Rejection is a one door closed, two doors opened somewhere else idea to me. Women don't reject me because my ideal woman is highly interested in me, if a girl isn't highly interested in me after the initial meeting then I next her long before she rejects me and consider her incompatible, not that I did something wrong. It's the framing of the events in life that create our perceptions of ourselves.
I've been arrogant, I know how people react to arrogance. I have been brought down by my peers and ridiculed. I have been through that before. I have been pushed to the absolute outskirts of society and mocked.

My sense of self comes from my own past and my own struggle. My own heartbreak and my own bitterness towards women who have destroyed my heart and dreams of what an ideal relationship and ideal love would feel like. My sense of self comes from my own principles of life that make it worth living. Life has no meaning to me unless you live it with complete integrity and complete dedication to your goals and life.

I don't always follow my own discipline, but I strive too. My sense of self is a feeling and belief. It is a knowledge and a journey. It isn't based on external factors in ANY way anymore. Because external factors bring you nothing but temporary fulfillment. For me, the true path of a warrior spirit is to find one's purpose and stick it to mercilessly. Comitment is my biggest motivating factor.

I have been through the arrogance, the false sense of confidence, the external validation. I have realized the true lies that I have taught myself so that I didn't have to feel the pain of admitting the truth, which is that I didn't love myself. In fact I hated myself for years. Because I was so destructive to myself and my loved ones, my sense of purpose comes from a place of total love and acceptance. That is what I am striving for now.
I have sort of lived this way in the past. Only accepting the good, expected that life owes me good fortune throughout my life. Expecting that girls view relationships the same way I do. Expecting people to operate on the same caliber of integrity that I do. Life is just not that way.

I appreciate your post because I value discussions like this and they are the reason I come to forums like thses. I have never been a "Pick up Artist" and I never will be. I am just a normal guy with a rough past like anybody else. But I am here to tell everyone that no matter what has happened with women, life or anything there is change if you are willing to accept your OWN true reality about your communication with yourself. This "game" isn't about women. It's just about you and your true self.

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Ahead of my time, like I live my whole life backwards.

sounds like some hardcore one-ites to me -just sayin

Great so you are defining yourself on who you are not where you are.

Now the nature of your inner game depends on how you measure who you are!

Some will take an approach like aristotle seperating behaviour from character, and some will be more behaviouralists seeing behaviour as character.

"What is reality?"

Listen, I've just written an essay on the problems in Epistimology and I'm not going to go into them at length with you now.

I'll just say this, "truth" that is to say, agreed truth or scientific truth is a hypothetical, an accepted hypothetical.

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What do we mean by reality based minset? A mindset which is congruent with the actual physical, and real facts.

Unrealistic Belief: I am a gentle and compassionate person; The Reality: this person is psycho-pathic, and as a result cannot comprehend feelings of compassion and is prone to indiscriminate violence if it this persons feels it will help them fulfill their objectives.

Realistic Belief: I have alot of friends; The Reality; This person is a widely popular person, with many good friends (7-8) and very few if any enemies.

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Incidently I always find this "aren't we all just living in a fantasy land" quite funny.

Many religious healers, homeopaths, alternative medicine practitioners, psychics and various horse-shit peddlars will tout these questions when told.

"Your idea's have no basis in reality and are a fantasy"

Truth is, if you saw me on tv saying that I planned to jump to the moon using no apparatus except me legs. And after being informed by physicists that my plan was lunacy, I responded "You say that my idea's are un-realistic.. but then again, how can we be sure of reality..."

I would not look down on you for considering me a moron.

Simple says, outside of investigating how we go about finding and defining truth, episistimitic questions are both invalid and silly.
A good rule of thumb, but people need to review themselves, you can believe that you have alot of potential at snowboarding... but if after ten years of intensive training and not one medal, it may be advantageous for people to re-assess the situation.


Interesting way to frame your search for a girl. But, do you see her being highly interested in you, as a positive about her? Or just something needed for it to blossom.

This sounds alot like an external locus of control.

(Oh we are not compatible) a.k.a blah blah blah, something that isn't my doing. This halts progress in this area becuase it's projecting responsibility onto others and doesn't allow you to take the repsonsibility that is required in order to make changes.

As opposed to an internal locus of control.

(Ah fucked it up!) a.k.a blah blah blah, something that I control and can change.

Alot harder on the ego, much better for your development and it will not shatter.

Trying to reframe it so you don't face rejection doesn't prepare you for when the mask slips and you realise that you were rejected.

Some good stuff in there. Good luck!