I agree its this simple :
Why make life more complicated, oppotunaties are missed too often through over thinking and planning...
Men go out in groups for friendship and courage, women do the same but are there to filter the douchebags out aswell..

Gaming guys : remember most are AFCs - and to be approached is a huge badge of alpha status - those that dont get approached have to do the approaching.
A simple eye contact or bump in passing as Stella says with a smile and a follow me look (kino some more etc)

Dont forget the rule for most PUAs is get the girl to approach you by being open, fun etc.. isnt it? so like some women would say DIRECT is sometimes better. If he is a douche BAIL .

J1f

I totally agree with you Killians...if I approach his buddies, my actual target has no way of knowing he is the target. As a matter of fact he may back off because he thinks I'm into his buddy. So I see what you were saying Stella but unfortunately guys just don't get subtle cues haha.

Killian how do you approach a group of guys in a loud club/bar? In my case there were 3 (including my target). It is hard for my voice to carry over the crowd so it was hard to talk to all three at once...I tried to talk to my target but his buddy took over the convo and since I had to lean in so he could hear me, his buddies (including my target) left thinking I was only talking to him because I liked him. Any suggestions....have you ever had this happen to you?

One of the main points of female pua is that you don't have to sit around and wait for guys to approach you. Guys are horrible at reading signals. Even if you give him eye contact, bump into him, and smile he may still not approach. Now one argument may be that if he can't work up the courage to approach you then he wasn't worth the time in the first place....but with that thinking I may be missing out on a ton of greate guys. It is ok to approach a guy. I will def do things to get him to notice me, but I'm not going to sit around a club waiting for the perfect conditions so that he notices me or the perfect conditions for the right time to approach...that is how opportunities are lost and you are left thinking "well I wonder what would have happened if I just went to talk to him..."

Actually, I kind of disagree. If you are doing the friends first approach, you should approach them when he not around and keeping very platonic body language is in order. Then when he comes, you say.. you have really nice friends and isolate. Most guys are not that thick and if he is, will you really be able to have that much fun with him?

Boys.. feel free to disagree with me, but in my limited experience it seems that while men do appreciate women who are direct in approaching them, they appreciate a woman who reciprocates interest that they have approached (or feel like they have approached) first more.

Also.. obviously the end goal makes a difference too..

In my experience I have know plenty of guys that wouldn't approach me or hit on me bc their buddy liked me or thought their buddy liked me. So if he stays away from teh group out of respect for them then I can never even isolate him in that way.

But besdies that notion, I don't want to have to wait for the perfect opportunity to approach: i.e wait til my target leaves the group while the group remains...how long will this situation take to set up? Could be ahile if not never. Female pua is about taking the situation and bending it to your wants and needs, not waiting for the situation to open up for you....you control it.

I believe the expression is, "bros before hos"... yes if one of the guys is having a shitty night, we'll work to help him out. It really depends on the circumstance if the guy would be hurt or not.

Next time, go straight for the target.

FWIW, any conversation started by a female to a male will be taken as an IOI. Actually, a mega-IOI.

Girl - "Do you have the time?"
Guy - "Yes, it's 5:30.." [holy shit, she digs me!]

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"A man is but the product of his thoughts, what he thinks, he becomes." - Mohandas Gandhi

Go for the hug from behind! That would get my attention.
BS. We rationalize the actual sequence of events to fit our reality.

Say a girl in a supermarket asks a guy "Hey, do you think lucky charms are better than cocoa puffs?"...one thing leads to another and they've got a date next week.

What happened in the guy's perspective? "I talked to this cool girl and because I'm awesome, I got a date!"

What happens when he tells his friends? "Dude! I met this smoking hot chick at Albertsons! I made fun of her shoes and then scored a date!"

Moral of the story, it doesn't matter what actually happened, we're the ultimate cause of what happened. Who actually opened who will be forgotten a day (hours?) later. Now I won't say that it's not better to open a set then get bored/run away! Cat-string... we love a chase.

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"A man is but the product of his thoughts, what he thinks, he becomes." - Mohandas Gandhi

Okay, I guess I never take this point into account,. But you do this to generally help a guy out or b/c you just dont find the girl to be that attractive so you don't really care?
Haha, oh if that was only true for ever guy.

Question for you Bonita:
If you bump into a guy, wink at him and smile, and then walk away and he doesn't follow. If he's actually too dim, or afraid, to read the signals; Is this a guy you'd want ?

Wouldn't he then turn out, most probably, to be either weak intuitively or too socially uncomfortable to dare approach (standard AA) ?
Note: I consider intuition to be, probably, <i>the</i> most important trait in any person relating to others, and especially in/on/between sheets.

But as Smartass said, a woman opening is, in our world, a Huge IOI.

It shouldn't be harder than to tell the guy straight out "You're cute!"
Direct is always easier.

Well, speaking from personal experience and the guys I know...none of us would follow you. We're too busy having fun/doing our own thing to drop everything and follow a girl that winked and smiled.

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And I lift my glass to the awful truth
Which you can't reveal to the years of youth
Except to say it isn't worth a dime

this is sooooo true for every guy. Sometimes I guess we ll just act cool.

You bring up a good point...ideally I would want a confident guy who would open me if I did that to him....but the whole point of female pua is increasing your options by taking an active step in your love life for once. I could wink at the guy and smile and that MIGHT get his attention and get him to come over, but the probablity is greater if I just open him. I will be able to find out if he is worth it soon enough into the convo....it wouldn't be a big loss if he doesn't turn out to be the guy I thought he was...but I might never know unless I open...and I could have missed someone great.

Also with being direct, with my experience and talking to some other pua's, guys love to be opened but women have to be careful how they go about this. If a girl is too forward then he will write her off as a slut. Saying "you're cute" is not too forward, but then he already knows your stance on things so even if you push pull, he knows that you are digging him already. Guys like an attainable challenge, but if you say "you're cute" too soon it takes out some of that challege which is FUN for both parties. This isn't a mind game women play with men just for the hell of it...the challenge leads to sexual tension and testing the level of attraction....that is what makes pick up so fun.

Hehe, I see your point there.

Then you adapt it to something more ambiguous like "You're kinda interesting"
or something of that essence, I'm sure you can cook up better than the example, but yeah.

Not all guys would want to be just cute... come to think of it, girls too tend to want to be more than just "cute".
So the line "You're kinda cute when you...(whatever action)" can swing both ways, and is not a straight forward guarantee that the girl will be sexually attracted..
Or am I off here?

Ambiguity is probably the easiest in the long run if you're gaming anything but PUA's and naturals, since your AFC is, mostly, blind to body-language and IOIs.


Hand him a little mystery, and let him try to solve you.
That way you will also, in a way, get some impression of his confidence-level and his self-image.

to take the example "Interesting" he can think there's something positive or something negative. You get it I know.


But back to the thing about reading and acting on a woman's non-verbal communication. If you do get one of the blind people, won't that leave you with all the irritating moments, unless you start teaching the guy how women communicate ?

lol... what would be the point of pushing the ugly girls on my friend who's having a bad day? lol... Of course we do it to help him out! I can't speak for everyone of course, and it's always possible that one or more of your targets has a girlfriend...
Oh my god.... In case you didn't get it already, it IS true for EVERY GUY. If some girl asks us the time, we assume she did so because she wants to jump us. Now..... the difference between an AFC and a PUA is the response..... an AFC will just give you the time, get nervous and cower in the corner. a PUA will say, "wow! that was a great excuse to come talk to me! ")

Back in my AFC days, I was walking through a supermarket aisle. I was walking one way, and a hot girl comes walking at me and says, "wow, that's a nice shirt!" That is probably as direct as it gets, but being an AFC, I just ignored it and pretended I didn't hear it. Really lame, right? I still think about that and how much I've grown... Even direct openers won't turn an AFC into a PUA, but something as subtle as a wink - I probably wouldn't pick that up... she might have dry contacts...

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"A man is but the product of his thoughts, what he thinks, he becomes." - Mohandas Gandhi