As an AFC myself i have to repeat a question Fin asked:
Or better: How hard is it for an insecure AFC with not so good inner game to get his inner game right and do the direct stuff?

Personally my experience is that inner game for some (like me) is not something you get right overnight. And as you stated yourself if your inner game is not good the direct approach probably will fail. And since you seem to think you should first build inner game, how would you advice to do that?

I am asking these questions since I am becoming genuinely more interested in direct game lately. Especially since it feels to be more congruent with my character than an indirect method such as MM. (Not that i am throwing MM out the window already)

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About the name Xenu:
http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2007 ... ogy-p1.php

Inner game is about understanding the underlying principles and internalizing them, instead of focusing so much on externalizing them and focusing on the outward results. You understand why and how things work, you understand social dynamics and what makes you an amazing person, because most guys don't have or try to achieve the skills you are working on. You realise that it doesn't matter if you get blown out, because there's always more sets, getting blown out doesn't hurt you, you learned something new and had some fun doing it; that gives you confidence.

There's all sorts of things that go into inner game and the only thing I can suggest, is that you focus on making yourself happy, achieving what you want to achieve with yourself, then you work on doing the same with others.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

I agree with quite a bit of what andeezy says.

MM does not need to be fake, the main logic behind MM is not to lie, but to show disinterest, it's like the male version of "treat em mean keep em keen".

I myself was origonaly a mystery student, however I have written and used my own routines, (inncidently as I write this I'm playing a game I made up where you exchange via msn three things that make you geeky/nerdy and three things that make you cool) canned routines, and stuff I make up on the fly. My DHV's I use, are real and have happened, I'm just simply aware of the female and male physchy so that I can understand what I need to do to get a better response from the girl, how to make myself non-threatening to the AMOG.

My body laungauge for the most part is non-interested and indirect. I may at times say things whoch are direct, while holding an indirect posture. I find it works wonders, as it really gets them interested in me and implements advantages of both styles; however I can see it conjuring the disadvantages of both aswell.

The mystery method isn't lying, but it is tempting to do, and unfortunatly many people fall for it and lie. This is a problem with the PUA community, not the method in question.

I think for the mental and moral developement of this community more focus does have to be put on inner game and the developement of the person, rather than the practising of routines on their own.

However the use of routines/negs/DHV's shouldn't be looked down on, their still fun as hell and stir up some really positive responces when combined with inner game.

Ill have to disagree with you. Mystery himself said it, "Even with Mystery, its still a great method". Which means you dont repeat all his routines but come up with your own that only apply to you that way you wont get called out. My friend and I are doing amazing things with MM and it is the fastest and best way to interact with people as long as you dont turn your interactions into a script. Just keep the model in your head and you are good to go.

That is lying; everything you are doing when you show disinterest is based on a lie because you are extremely interested in this woman and either lack the confidence to approach or don't believe she would accept you as you are if you made your intentions clear upfront. If you feel like being acting a certain way but are not in order to elcit a specific response from a woman that is lying.

Chances are whatever you say prior to her knowing you're attracted to her (opinion openers, ect.) you don't care about what her answer is and you are just waiting to be able to get to her on a romantic level; unless you want and enjoy all the initial fluff and filler of hiding your intial intentions you are not being honest in doing so and you are not being honest in anything you say because you are harboring an ulterior motive in every action you are making.

Who really cares about the AMOG? Hell I love being threatening to AMOGs (I'm 5'5 so don't think I have leverage) and find that it shows my alpha dominance far more than befriending them. I don't waste time with such things; when I go up to a girl and make it clear that I am interested in her up front the AMOGs are often the ones still hiding their intentions and after I get to her first and she is happy within 30 seconds of meeting her they will not dare try to mess with her happiness and simply won't touch me. I also don't waste time befriending any girl I'm not interested in with a group because if the girl I want is happy there is nothing the other friends can do to stop me.

I don't look down on any of Mystery's techniques (except negs; I don't believe in taking shots at a woman's self-esteem unless she does something to warrant it) so much as find them clunky, ineffective and unnecessary once you realize the much more powerful response you can have with your own natural, real direct alpha personality.

- Chris

Interesing point of view, but chicks pull that kind of shit all the time. Turn around is only fair play, and I agree, I find one of the best ways to quickly remove AMOG's is too state your dominance quickly and prove that you're here for a reason and you have every intention and belief that you will suceed. But then again I like making friends.

But telling a woman you approached her becuase she was interesting, is a lie, you apporached her because you want to date/fuck her becuase of her physical appearence.

You say that to a chick and 90% of them will run for the hills. However play a strong "comfort game" and I could possibly see this working.

That would be like me going to Venusianarts.com and saying look Mystery reviewed his own product and gave it two thumbs up so it must be good!
It is not the fastest way; direct is the fastest way.

I was at a wedding once and was put at a table with a HB8 sitting next to me and I said to her:

Chris: Want to know a secret?
(leans in as I move toward her ear)
Chris: There is an absolutley gorgeous girl sitting next to me and I wanted to find out if she is a friendly as she is cute.
(confidently lock eyes briefly as she takes it in)

And from there I can move to what M3 would regard as A3 and immediatley start qualification sucessfully. They want you to believe you need the M3 model but the simple fact is you don't and there are MUCH more efficient and simple ways of doing things which are natural.

If Mystery Method is all you know you will think it is the fastest; if you don't know another way other than being an AFC it will be the fastest and best way to interact. The model makes things harder than is necessary; if you want to build the best possible life for yourself work your inner game and get it to the point where you can be fearless in the face of rejection and approach any girl and get her number whether you have 10 hours or 10 seconds.

- Chris

No kidding. I thought it was set in stone that you don't walk up to a girl, smile and say "I just had to meet you, what's your name?" What does this tell her? That you're a dude who knows nothing about her and is only approaching her because of how she looks.

Juggler's e-book goes into this in detail, you wait until she's given you a reason to be interested in her so she thinks you're not like every other guy running up to introduce themselves.

You don't go up to a girl and say, "I just had to meet you, what's your name?" that is the AFC "I like you for your body so now I'm going to interview you" trap. You are confusing a key point of direct game comes in. I go up to women and say, "You are absolutley gorgeous and I want to [meet]/[get to know] you."; I don't tell her she is interesting and lie to her. If I don't believe or feel like saying something I won't say it. I make it clear that I liked her for her physical appeal and wanted to get to know her better to see if she was someone I see as a potential romantic/sex partner or both and make no aplogies or excuses like stories, DHVs, negs or hiding my sexual interest in her as a man.

I'm in control of my interactions not Mystery or Style or anyone else. The other difference that almost no normal guy has is that I bring her in to my reality and dominate hers when I approach; I'm unlike any guy who has approached her and my confidence is unshakable.

If a woman says to me "I have a boyfriend" I will often remain silent and confidently keep looking her straight in the eye with a slight smile/grin until she says something else which often is something along the lines of, "so what's your name?" and it becomes as if she has never even mentioned the boyfriend and I just passed a HUGE shit test where most AFCs would go, "okay tell him he's a lucky man" or just walk away feeling rejected.

As for AMOGs I can respect that you want to make friends with them and if you enjoy that then buy all means keep doing it but personally have enough friends and I will make more on my own time but in that moment I am not their to get friendly with the boys I am there to attract a HB in to my life and get a beautiful woman and that is what I chose to make my focus.

I don't play "comfort game" or any games for that matter and most women I meet are intruigued and entranced by my confidence and that is more than enough to qualify me to them as worthy; that 90% figure is a guess based on the logical reasoning of a Mystery Method practitioner who assumes that direct doesn't work. And if you did try it and got rejected 90% of the time on direct your inner game is way off.

- Chris

agreed, however I should make it clear I have yet to buy mystery's book.

I simply like his style, but are you honestly saying that you have walked up to a chick and said "I find you attractive, I want to get to know you, with the ultimate goal in mind being you to suck my cock."

If you can, kudos to you, you must really have "unshakable inner game".

But I like my style it works for me/ its relatively unique/ and I enjoy it. With my fastest number close being 30sec.. ..F-closeing on the same day.

And I have yet to be flaked.

However you seem to be convinced that things are working out for you. So kudos, but lets not jab at eachother.

You should read everything you can so you can keep your mind open to everything that's out there.

Right now on my hard drive I have the following books which I have read all of:

October Man Sequence
The Venusian Arts Handbook - Mystery
Get The Girl - Mehow
The Game - Neil Strauss
How To Be Alpha - Chris Nosal
Magic Bullets - Savoy
Without Embarrassment - Mike Pilinski
Secrets of the Alpha Male - Carlos Xuma
The Dating Black Book - Carlos Xuma
How To Get Beautiful Women Into Bed - Mystery
The Art of Approaching - Thundercat
David Shade's Manual - David Shade
Double Your Dating 2nd Edition - David DeAngelo
Mode One - Alan Roger Currie
Real World Seduction - Swinggcat
How to be a Pick-Up Artist - Juggler

Any more recommendations would be welcome!

If you're happy stick with what you're doing; you make your own choices and the resutls that go along with them.

I don't have the goal in mind of simply getting her to suck my cock (although many direct guys I know do have this mindset and I certainly wouldn't have any complaints) It's personal preference really but my mind personally enjoys emotional connections as well as physical but my eyes and senses need a woman to be physically attractive to warrant me wanting to date her in the first place.

As for my inner game; I don't care what society thinks of me when I'm trying to get girls. If I have the goal of getting a girl and she's with 3 girls and 2 guys I will push them aside dominate their space, dominate her reality and meet her.

I am personally curious about how many approaches you have done if you have yet to be flaked; even the best of the best have been flaked at one time or another. Good job on the f-close the same day although that doesn't strike me as that abnormal.

- Chris

Been doing this for nearly three months, so not long. But my transformation of who I am has been amazing.

I've opened roughly 100 girls. Num# closed somewhere in the regions of 70.

The rest were warm up sets, or me just doing it too have a laugh with them, or back in the early days when I was still trying to find my feet.

I try to get as much material as I can but money restricts me, and yes I realise you just made me qaulify myself to you, haha!

How much NLP do you use? Not as in preselected but as in "on the fly".

I saw the octoberman in their, so I am naturaly curious.

I understand what you're talking about now. I agree the transformation an AFC undergoes is incredible.

I know what you mean about money back in the day I didn't have a lot of money when I was studying pick-up so these books were somewhat out of my reach; a lot of these "gurus" charge way too much for their materials. There are so many people out their to purchase product that to sell them for 40 or 50 bucks is just greedy.

I don't really use NLP; I have a very solid working knowledge of hypnosis so I may use it unconciously but I don't plan anything I say other than my opener; I tried octoberman and yes it worked because I had prior NLP and hypnosis training so I fully understood it. It works for making women feel attracted and it seem liked god's gift to pick-up until I found the direct approach; I found that I could pump a woman with feelings of attraction even quicker than OMS which until then I hadn't though possible.

Also I will read any pick-up material that is placed in front of me because I like to see every idea that exists out there.

- Chris

So c_n12 has solid inner game, and can approach directly. Well done, you get a gold star

But seriously, as one previous poster said, the key here is getting solid inner game, one way of which is by approaching loads of sets and gaining confidence that way.

One way to do this is by having some canned material to help you get by, so that you can learn and improve your confidence, and your skills. Once you have gained that inner game, the content (i.e. routines) becomes less relevant, and direct game becomes easy, and natural.

As Neil Strauss said, the routines etc. are like "training wheels" i.e. they can be dropped once the concepts are internalised, as c_n12 said in a different way earlier. Style also said that all the structure of the method(s) is just guidelines, and should be ignored as if something works, it works.

My point here is that this is just two sides of the same coin. c_n12 doesn't use "structured" or indirect game because he doesn't have to, and good for him. Other people, who don't have their inner game handled, may have to approach it in a different way.

If someone can post a way for an AFC newbie with no inner game to use direct game successfully right from the start, then we might have something interesting to discuss. Otherwise it is all just sound and fury, signifying nothing. To a certain extent at least!

Hope that makes sense.

As far as approach anxiety goes it is fairly easy to overcome within your own mind; I guess I just don't see it that way because before Mystery Method was around all I had was my friend in high school who taught me how to get women using direct approaches. Then when Mystery Method came around I thought, "wow this is so technical and specific it must be more effective" so I took every intiative to master indirect game.

However, back in my original direct phase I went from a kid who was afraid to even ask a girl what homework was out of fear of her saying I was hitting on her and thinking I was a pervert to approaching HB8-10s on the beach in a matter of months so I don't really see training wheels as necessary. I was what you desribed, intially I had technical issues learning to properly use tonality and body language to maximum effectivness through trial and error but the inner game was fully solid.

I have helped many others eliminate approach anxiety completely by reaching it at the source in their mind by discovering and releasing the inner conflicting beliefs.

Here is an email I got through my MySpace from someone as an example who read my book and had approach anxiety issues. He emailed me for help and then emailed me back three days later with this:



For the purposes of approach anxiety I utilized psychological regression techniques in my attraction methodology that are primarily built on this technique:

http://www.inlpa.org/index.cfm?CFID=784 ... 38&a=10096

I am very direct and sometimes in text it may even appear borderline arrogant but I really do care about helping people. I have been through many facets of direct and indirect game very closely in the last 12 years and I know everything I have done has worked and I have picked out the best and built methods upon that.

That's why I am so passionatley against training wheels and the Mystery Method, because everyone I have really taken the time to help hasn't needed it once they overhauled their direct game and inner game under control and it didn't take countless approaches to do.

- Chris