I think the opposite. I think game is what GETS the woman to sleep with you, its not what makes them attracted though.

Agreed. I think "game" can help you pick up women. However, how many of those women are actually going to be sleeping with you? Lol @ you being the first poster after you "left".

I am not sure if I totally agree that it's not what gets them attracted to you. I can think of several examples in my every day life where girls I know have admitted that their boyfriend wasn't their "type" when they first met but it was the things he said and did that attracted her to him. Coming from a girl you can take it with a grain of salt but it's just my two cents. I guess it all depends on what you would say makes them attracted to you if it isn't game.

Yes, but thats part of a grooming process, but the initial attraction is allusive.

Top 10 Myths in the Seduction Community
10. The main purpose of canned routines is to get a reaction/result when talking to women (get attraction, open the set, etc)

training wheelsIt’s not that I don’t like or use canned (e.g. prescripted) routines. It’s that nobody really understands what they’re used for. I wrote a long post about this earlier in the year to address the problem, but I’d bet that most people reading this still think that routines are used to get a result. An opener is used to open the set. A DHV story is used to get attraction. A comfort routine is used to build comfort. Makes sense, right? If only it were that simple. Like most things in pickup, the truth is pretty counter-intuitive. The purpose of routines is to teach you a skill. It’s not to get a result. If that sounds weird or confusing, check out the full length article.




9. DHV Stories

storytellingAlmost a decade ago, Mystery pioneered this idea of the DHV — a demonstration of higher value. And while it was little more than very sophisicated and subtle supplication, the theory was founded on critical ideas — that women paid more attention to your subtext (what you said between the lines) than your overt communication. We took advantage of this by ‘embedding’ DHVs into our stories to convey attractive qualities about us. Now on some level we eventually realized that we were still in the same boat of trying to impress women, which we know today to be a very ineffective and unattractive mindset. But regardless of what we were doing, the stories seemed to get results, so screw all the naysayers, right?

Not quite.

I’ll be explaining the full details on this phenomenon in a future article coming in the next few weeks, but the basic premise is this: DHV stories don’t actually work as a result of the “embedded” DHV qualities. They work because you’re leading, you are confident, and you’re socially calibrated. What we thought was making them work was all wrong. Stay tuned for the full details on that in a few weeks. For now you’ll have to just trust me on this one.


8. You should never buy a drink or dinner or be nice to a girl

couple drinking wine on dateOooo, this one’s a doozy. This one has been debunked so many damn times, but to this day I still see guys making this mistake. It’s the old, “don’t supplicate to her” rule, and it’s vastly misinterpreted. It’s not that you should never buy a drink (or dinner, or be nice) to/for a girl. It’s that you shouldn’t buy her attention or otherwise try to impress her by buying things for her or being overly nice to her. In other words, treat her like a good friend. If you’re talking to her for an hour and you want to grab a drink, offer her one too. If you invite a girl to dinner (which you shouldn’t do in the first place, but that’s beside the point), pick up the tab when the check comes. It’s called being polite and not being cheap and petty, and if you forget about that, you’ll lose way more attraction for that than you ever would have because of some arbitrary pickup law. In a woman’s mind, there are very few things more unattractive than you being a cheapass. In the same vein, being a jerk to a girl because you don’t want her to think you’re ‘supplicating’ is also ineffective and bad form. (That said, do not buy her a drink if she demands it unless she has a damn good reason.)


7. The One True Way Method

the one true way - mc escher stairwayI have to give credit to Savoy for this one from the Magic Bullets ebook. Like football and religion (and well, most everything in a guy’s life), it’s really easy to get into something and pick a favorite ‘team’ and dogmatically follow their advice/path/career as the “One True Way.” Every theist-based religion revolves around this, as does sports, systems of government, programming platforms, operating systems, and countless other things. The problem, of course, is that it creates blind spots inherent in the group think mentality. Simply put, the One True Way fallacy means you follow one system, one guru, one method to the exclusion of all other methods. And we’ve already seen that that that didn’t work so well in the UFC. That’s why everyone in the UFC practices “Mixed Martial Arts” now instead of “boxing” or “karate.”

Pickup is the same way. Every style or methodology has certain strengths and weaknesses. Some apply better to sexually confident men. Others apply better to socially maladjusted men. But no system is ideal for everyone, or it would have to be so vague and open ended that it would be worthless (which is why I teach fundamentals rather than a system). The danger in following the ‘one true way’ is the same as trying it in the UFC — no matter how good you are at your discipline, you’ll eventually plateau (or more likely, get your ass handed to you) when your blind spots start to hold you back. Think of what happens when a boxer gets taken to the ground. Or when a wrestler can’t get in close enough to take down a stand up fighter. The same concept applies to schools of pickup.


6. All you need is Inner Game/Outer Game/Lifestyle/Social Proof/etc.

cat looking into a mirro and seeing a lionSimilar to the One True Way, a lot of gurus and systems try to oversimplify the complexity of human interactions into a nice, compact, “all you need is X” type of formula. You’ve all heard it before.

“All you need is inner game. You don’t need to go out, you don’t need to change anything, you just have to have inner game. Do my 10 positive affirmations in your mom’s basement where you live and you will be the MAN by next week!”

Riiiiiiight. The same applies to outer game, lifestyle, social proof, or any other concept. It’s just not true. Maybe for a single isolated context it might be correct, but across the board it’s nothing more than a fantasy we’d all like to believe in. Don’t get sucked up into the hype. Run far and run fast from anyone who broadly claims that, ‘All you need to be successful is X.’ Unless of course, that ‘X’ is ‘everything.’

Last week I kind of stirred the pot a bit with Part 1 of the Top 10 Myths. If you haven’t read it yet, start there.

This week we’re going to continue with the Top 5. You’ll notice most of the things in this list revolve around the myths created by the marketing and the deification of the ‘gurus’ in the industry. But I won’t spoil it all yet.

Let’s get into it.


5. A boot camp or product will instantly solve all of your problems, no matter how bad they may be

Only $299.99, order today!

This one’s going to ruffle some feathers. Yes, it’s true. A boot camp or DVD probably won’t solve all of your problems overnight. Even mine. In fact, mine are designed specifically for long term growth so you might actually experience worse results in the first week or two after taking one of my programs. That’s part of the process. “During the path to greatness, you often get worse before you get better.”

What happens to the basketball player who’s been shooting baskets double-handed underhand (“granny style”) for 10 years when his coach suddenly shows him the ‘correct’ way to shoot? That’s right, he starts missing. A lot. But after a few weeks, he starts to get used to it. And after a month or two, he gets better. And better. And better still. His skills increase exponentially because of the correction in form. That’s what training is supposed to do for you. It’s not supposed to get you instant, overnight fundamental changes in your behavior or sticking points. Sure, it happens sometimes (especially with more superficial sticking points), but core-level change is often where most guys are experiencing problems, and correcting that takes time. Don’t buy into the hype. You should be taking a boot camp to have an expert analyze your sticking points and provide you with a path and a solution to fix them. You should NOT be expecting an overnight, instant fix to all of your problems.


4. Coaches are well-adjusted supermen who never get blown out, always have lots of friends, have great social lives, and are good people.

"Trust Me"

I take that last one back, THIS one is going to ruffle even more feathers. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not about to jump on the ‘let’s hate on the pickup community’ bandwagon that seems to be so popular these days. But I will call it like I see it, and what I see in this case is downright depressing. It’s not that coaches need to be supermen who never get blown out. It’s that they shouldn’t claim or insinuate that they are. I’ve been out with Mystery and Matador multiple times when they get blown out hardcore. But I’ve also been there multiple times when they pull the hottest girl in the club. Sometimes in the same night. Sometimes in the same SET. And they’ve seen me do the same thing. Blowing sets is like missing a shot in basketball. It happens. And anyone who claims otherwise is lying to you. The main problem I have with this myth is that it’s oftentimes perpetuated by the instructors themselves. Don’t buy into the myth of the guru, no matter how convincing it sounds.

The second part of this is the really controversial part. It stems from the fact that if you’re teaching this, you need to understand that you’re a role model to a lot of people, whether you want to be or not. Just the very fact that you’re a coach in this industry means that people are going to look up to you. And that means that it’s your responsibility to lead a life that will set a good example. The problem, of course, is that a LOT of coaches not only don’t take this to heart, but don’t have their own lives together.

I’d say 8-9 out of 10 coaches in this industry are either bad at pickup, bad at coaching, live a horrible life you’d never wish on your worst enemy, or all of the above. 80 to 90 Percent. That’s huge. Let me give you some concrete examples (and no I will not name names, so don’t ask):

I know a LOT of coaches who have no friends. Like zero. Seriously. I knew a coach who wanted me to drive 2 hours to come help him setup a TV because he had no friends who would help him. Screw pickup, do you want to learn social skills from someone who can’t even make friends?
I’ve met coaches who get wasted infield during boot camps and neglect students. Coaches who go sarge their own sets and ignore clients who are paying them thousands of dollars. Would you tolerate that kind of behavior from your attorney or surgeon or accountant? I would hope not.
I’ve met some coaches who can’t pickup a $10 bill on the floor. They can’t close the god-damned front door, much less a girl standing in front of them. I know coaches who tried to get laid for over 6 months and couldn’t close a single girl. And of course they can’t coach, either. But people continue to get conned, and then they come to me with their sob stories.
There are other instructors out there (some of whom are actually good at pickup) who can’t manage to pull a semi-healthy lifestyle together to save their lives. And no, I’m not talking about El Topo‘s ridiculous sexual debauchery, even though it is disgusting impressive. I’m talking about guys who have mental breakdowns on a regular basis. I’m talking about instructors who seem to live their lives revolving around negativity. I’m talking about “gurus” who are more ‘reactive’ than any “AFC” I’ve ever coached.

I could go on, but you get the point. Don’t assume coaches are the role models you think they are unless you see some evidence for it. And for godssakes, do some research before you take training. I can’t count the number of times I have a student contact me because he just took xyz boot camp and hated it and then found out after the fact that their refund policy stated that they had to sign a complaint form in O-negative blood at exactly twelve midnight with a full moon and a werewolf witness with gold teeth. When you take training, you’re investing in yourself. For most of us, it’s quite a sum of money as well. I probably spent $10-20k on training throughout the years. But luckily I was smart about it and didn’t get ripped off. DO YOUR HOMEWORK.


3. Looks don’t matter/Looks do matter

This guy is obviously banging that girl on the right

There are two camps here. One says that looks don’t make any difference at all and that a male model has the same exact chance that a 3’4″ troll-looking motherfucker has to attract that “10″ in the club. The other camp says that looks matter so much that you can’t ever be successful at this if you aren’t a male model.

Obviously, both groups are pretty off-base here. Do looks matter?

Sure, to some degree. They matter the way physical strength matters in golf on the driving range. Or the way raw intelligence matters in getting good grades in school (remember: Einstein flunked 9th grade math). On the whole, [god-given/genetic] looks matter to the degree of about 10-20%. Which means that everything else being equal, looks will play a part. And good/bad looks will have a larger impact than normal. But take a guy who’s a 6 on the looks scale but has tight game and put him up against a guy with 9 looks and weak game, and I’ll put my money on the 6 every day of the week.

Let me give you another analogy. Think of looks as the same degree of importance as breast size in a happy, long-term marriage. Sure, extremely small or large (FFF) breasts may be an issue, and nice breasts are certainly appealing to the eye, but in the grand scheme of a 50-year marriage, breast size (assuming in the normal range) is a very minor element. It’s only a really big deal if you are especially hung up on them or if they’re on an extreme end of the scale (e.g. deformity).

Your god given looks are the same.

That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t take care of yourself or maximize your appearance — after all, even saggy boobs look halfway decent in a good push-up bra. But at the same time, don’t believe either camp when they try to delude you into thinking that looks are either 0% or 100% of the game.

Bottom line, I don’t think there’s anything more succinct than the fact that if a 5’4″ below-average looking Asian guy can get a lot of hot girls, so can you.


2. You can get any girl in any situation

Sarge her. Ignore the gun. 5 for 5.

Now on the other hand, this “5 for 5″ bullshit has got to go. For those of you unfamiliar with the term, it’s something that Mystery used to believe in — that he could approach 5 women and start 5 sexual relationships. It’s basically the equivalent of batting 1.0. It’s also about the same likelihood. Namely, damn-near-impossible.

The only way to guarantee 100% consistency is if you can control 100% of the variables in the equation. And in a club with lights, music, her friends, her own life and attitude and disposition… you’ll be lucky if you can control HALF of the variables. Which means that you have a greater than 50% x-factor involved here. That’s why you can’t hook every set. That’s why you can’t get every girl. Because there are always factors present that are out of your control.

That being said, I still advocate that when a set blows up, you ask yourself what you could have done better. Maybe you couldn’t have done anything to actually change the ultimate outcome, but there’s also no way in hell that you did everything perfectly. You DID make mistakes, and you do have things you could have done better, even if it wouldn’t have changed things (hint: it usually would have). But keeping this mindset not only keeps you healthy and sane, but it ensures that you will always be improving.

And finally… the number one myth in the seduction community:



1. You don’t have to change

I suppose this is loosely related to #6, but I think it deserves to be #1 because it manifests itself in so many different ways and it’s so harmful overall. Think of how many times you’ve heard the following:

All you need is this one routine/method/system and you’ll solve all of your problems!
Stop using routines and techniques, you don’t need that crap, you just have to have strong, masculine intent!
It doesn’t matter if you’re poorly dressed, ugly, out of shape, or drive a shitty car, you can consistently pickup that 10 if you have killer game!
Are you running out of things to say? Then use this routine stack to never run into that problem again!

Q: What do all of these things have in common (aside from being in most sales copy)?

A: They play on your natural desire to believe that you don’t have to change. That you just have to acquire some magic skill/potion/routine/natural game/nimbus and everything will fix itself. You will magically have friends, your clothes will magically be fashionable, you will magically have social skills and be funny, and your life will magically change.

I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that’s just not realistic. Most guys who get into this are not attractive men. I don’t mean just physically, either. Most men get into this because they have this gaping hole in their life and they’re here to fix it. And then they get sucked up into all this marketing hype that says that change is superfluous and that all you need is XYZ product/service/whatever.

I’m calling that out for the bullshit that it really is right here and now.

If there’s one “message” that the community should have, it’s this:

“You’ve wanted to change your entire life. You’ve wanted to be someone else. You’ve wanted to be attractive. You’ve finally found the resource that can make that happen. It won’t be easy, but it will be rewarding, beyond your wildest dreams. Welcome to the seduction community.”


source: http://www.taoofdjfuji.com/2010/12/07/t ... ty-part-2/

I've been following the guys below for some time now. (Multiple channels, not just 1) They seem like smart honest guys. When I first saw there video I wasn't convinced. Here it is.



Then I ran into seductionmyth.com. I looked over the different pages, and it made lean towards the guys I posted in the video. I highly recommend going to this website and just look it over.

Finally, I ran into this article I'll post below. Writer has some really good points.
In conclusion... I never thought I'd say this, but I think Warped Mindless was right. Pick Up is a numbers game.

I don't think everything in PU is bs, if I did I'd be on PUAHate. PU still has some solid material regardless. For example, "Never buy a girl's affection".

Discuss. . .