This is quite simple.

Have your lady friends ask them to leave.

Your groupies are adults, therefore they are fair game socially. At least they are in the free world.

If you punch others, absent legitimate self defense it is a crime. And you're liable to face repercussions in a legal sense or otherwise.

If someone is acting improperly or refuses to leave when asked, call the police, request a bouncer, etc.. and have them escorted away.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM

I'm having a bit of trouble following what exactly your getting at as well.

Your wanting to know how to get creepy gus to leave? Tell them to leave

Your wanting to keep creepy guys from coming? Don't let them into your events

That seems like to basic of an issue to warrant joining a forum and posting about...

What are you really getting at? You were offended by some people you assumed to be PUA's? lol, you want to let loose a group of expert PUA's on your girls insted of the amatuers?

It sounds to me like the guys you've delt with are just jackasses who think they have "the game" because the read the book of the same name, and use some of the lines out of it.

A real PUA you almost wouldn't be able to help but like... or at least respect.

As far as AMOG'ing there were some good examples listed here earlier, so there's no need for me to re-iterate them.

You want your girlfriends to be 40 year old virgins? Give the guys a chance. Yes, most of the guys are probably idiots and new to this, however they would make AWESOME boyfriends for your friends. Now stop being selfish and think about your girlfriends. Women like you are the reason men have to learn how to be ''players''.





I think I read most of this but missed a LOAD of the topic due to lack of time reading only half the original, But I think I pretty much hit the mark.

as I stated before, I respect mature PUAs, watching them work is a learning experience, and I would LOVE them to come and interact with my friends, as long as they don't hurt them later on.

LOL. Dude, how do you think the mature PUA's got to be mature PUA's?

As long as they don't hurt them later.

Ok, you're a guy right? Seriously.

Ok, you're a guy right? Seriously.

No, he's a female in a frat.


I think you should clarify why you dislike the guys. Are they just bad at picking up women or are they too clingy/kino escalating without invitation to do so. If that's the case, I'd get rid of them. If you dislike them just because they use the same stuff to meet every girl, most of my friends all say Hi to a girl. Are we evil?


And also, everyone keeps saying that they need to learn. A bunch of big frat guys kicking you out of a party/fist in face is def. a way to calibrate and not do that action again. Social dynamics guys.[/quote]

_________________
I'm the best.
And no I'm not positive, I'm definite.

put yourself in my shoes, and think along the line of HIGHER VALUE for a minute. After all, getting women isn't the only purpose in life. (In deed, if you are successful, you will most likely only have to devote a very small part to it. We have HB7 and up COME to our house for SOCIAL PROOF).

Now, when you throw a party, you think about two things.

1. The reputation of your organization

2. Cost and risk management.

Now, you can probably admit that the Venusian art is NOT a mainstream form of behavior, and to many women, people who practice such art are negative people. I admit that our organization primarily cater to younger people in the school, mostly freshmen. I couldn't careless because I date people of all age, from 18 to 40, but they do, and we are not the one to break their little dream about knights in shining armor, it's against the greater good of our organization. Yes, we pick up women, and yes, some of us may unfortunately hurt them, it's just how life works, but while the social interaction happens in our establishment, we try to keep it along a vibe of geniune, sincere social interaction where every men's goal isn't out there to get pussy (I guarantee you, if you tell women straight up that you JUST want sex, they won't go for it).

See, we have people who really just want to get pussy despite their oral allegiance to our code, it's unfortunate, because they should really have other more important things to worry about. But as an organization, it's my job to make it look good, and that's where the problem with amateur PUAs come in.

See, when a master PUA comes in, they can sense the vibe change, and they change their style accordingly. I don't care if they are sincerely into someone or just want to have a good time, but as long as they don't make the girls think that they just want sex, I am good with them. Unfortunately, 99% PUAs I've met aren't at that level. I bet 99% percent people on this board aren't at that level. Girls are amazingly good at calling out routines/insincerity those days. They may not point it to you face to face, but those guys end up hurting our organizations because they tend to create the girls out.

My point is, if you aren't good enough to the point that your set aren't aware they are being manipulated, you are welcome to come, otherwise, I would love to find a subtle way to let the guy know why his game isn't up to par. (this is my question in this whole post, no one seem to answered, yet).

2. cost and risk management issues.

This is what I want to adress to LA. True, people don't become experts over night, but our establishment is NOT a training ground.

Now, step into my shoes for a minute. Parties are expensive, and we aren't that rich. I am sure it doesn't make me an asshole when I see guys in my house, drinking my own money away, hitting on our own girls and make them damn uncomfortable.

Also, the risk management. We have big guys who beat the shit out of people who try the BF destroyer routine on his girlfriend, everytime, that's a risk management issue.

Good point Frat.

And I know exactly where you're coming from.

Read my post again at the top of the page.

You have no obligation to entertain guys (no matter what they call themselves) who fail to act socially appropriately on your property or otherwise.

I think to lump all guys into the PUA camp is a little disingenuous though. Many young guys fail to understand and take into consideration the social context they find themselves in. These guys are often lonely and trying to establish relationships the only way they know how. In other words they are learning.

Like I said, simply ask them to leave.. Be nice. And if they wont walk, walk them. If on your own property, designate a few guys as bouncers who can escort the unruly, or those who can't a hint to the door. If in a club, ask the bartender to handle it for you.

If you can't walk them, they refuse to cooperate or they put up a fight, etc.. call the cops or the management, etc...

One more thing. Some women, especially the younger variety are just panicky troublemakers. They love nothing more than starting trouble, then acting like they had nothing to do with it. Consider this fact. And don't bounce or start trouble with guys that are otherwise acting appropriately just because of some emotionally unstable chick says you should do so.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM

First of all, sinner, you can't always judge just by a screen name.
Man, I seriously don't think you are reading our posts.
You don't have to insinuate that we are not thinking of terms of higher value, because if you'll read us closely, we ARE talking and thinking in terms of higher value. I'm just not sure you're wanting to hear what we're saying. Who said otherwise? But, the fact is, some women will, some won't. Ok, you have said in earlier posts that you are against people being dishonest, putting up a false front, whatever. Now, you're going against your own words. Two major points about this. If a master PUA comes in and makes the set unaware that they are being manipluated??? Can we say double standard?
Secondly, you have been told, more than once in this thread, subtle ways to tell the guys they are not up to par. One is you can either display higher value yourselves, which will blow the guys out anyway, because the girls will focus on YOU, which is apparently what you want, and if the guys don't get the hint, like Starbuck said, take more action. Get a bouncer, call the cops, whatever you have to do. If you want to do something to more directly tell them their game isn't up to par, here's a novel idea . . . talk to them privately. Actually man, everywhere you go everyday is a training ground. I'm sure people at work, at clubs, and everywhere else you guy don't want that to be a training ground either, because you get real tired of the crap from people that don't know what they are doing. But, the fact is, EVERYWHERE is training ground. YOU can't personally stop that, short of just telling the people they are not welcomed. But, before you do that, I seriously suggest you look into your own double standards. Again, call the cops if it gets to that point.

A true PUA will not manipulate women. He is genuine and what he
does and says comes from his own life experiences.

AFC's and generally fake people are the ones who manipulate by
overusing canned material or lying about who they are... or buying
women gifts and dinners to get sex.

Know the difference.


Secondly, the guys on this thread have told you how to subtly let a
guy know his game is not working or up to par. It's called AMOGing.
Alpha Male Other Guy. You said you have
big guys in your organization (frat?). All one has to do is stand beside
an AFC and give him the evil eye and that is subtly letting him know
he needs to quit hitting on his girl... and that's only one small example.

Others include: Patting the guy on the head and treating him like a
5-year old or a puppy dog. Standing over him without saying anything
to him. Accusing him of being gay. Pick on him in front of the women.
Go over and start making out with the girl he's talking to. Talk to the
girls and act like he's not even there. Purposely call him by the wrong
name. It's all about YOU having a stronger mental frame than the other
guy. Your definition of "subtle" may be very different from mine, but
the stuff above is way more subtle than physical abuse.
Hmmm.... I've been reading this thread since you first posted it and
have been thinking the same thought: Fear of loss resulting in anger.

Take my outside opinion with a grain of salt, but: I would reconsider
who you accept into your organization if this is what happens. For a
man to ruthlessly beat up another man over intangeable words is not
the sign of a true man... but in my opinion, a coward. He is scared
some wimpy nerd who is armed with a few lines he stole out of a book
or a tv show is going to steal his girl = fear of loss.

With what you are writing, it sounds like your organization is flooded
with guys using pick-up routines. Is that really the case? Or is it like
3 or 4 per 100 person party? Or just a couple of guys that just simply
suck talking to women?

I've seen many a guy man-handled out of a bar, but every measure
was taken to do it harmlessly. Listen to Starbuck.

Thank you, this is the stuff I was asking for the whole time. Very enlightening post.

I agree that there's way too much misconceptions in this community (at large, not refering to this forum).

As of the honesty issue, I don't have a crystal ball, I can't read people's mind. I don't know if someone's being geniune or not, but as long as he can fool me (or more importantly, our guests), it's really a non-issue. What happens between him and our girls is their private issue, as long as he can carry himself to the end and not have the girl bitch at him and tell all her friends "Yeah, I met that guy at this frat's party, stay away from there.", I won't care at all.

As of the drunk guy punch wimpy guy issue, believe me or not, it's being used as a way of DHV by our guys, not a demostration of fear. Not saying I agree with the practice, but I can't deny having impulse to just physically harm anyone who's obviously trying to manipulate my girl into thinking that I am not a good person (non of his business). To tell my girl such is to personally disrespect me. I am not the strongest guy out there, but this kind of respect is one that I am willing to get physical at.

As you can see, I am pretty against the whole ideal of BF destroyer situation. You can potentially drag another possibly innocent man into this, and indeed, in primal society, violence was broke out often for such an act. Look at Helen and the war resulted by her. Even to today, if someone's ballsy enough to do the BF destroyer routine, he should prepared to be punched or punch back.

EDIT: I also appreciate the mod who open up this post back up again for discussion. Although I studied PUA methods, my study was not deep enough nor did I actually used any established methods in my romantic life. I geniunely believe that men need emotional comfort as much as women and it's ok to do things for woman that one truly love, and I am aware that maybe not everyone here agree with that ideal. Additionally, I also had my prejudice (subtle or not) against some ideals of this community when I came in.(Some naturals in my brotherhood have VERY STRONG prejudice against the community, which is understandable) but most of you have proven to be very mature and great in facilitation our discussion. I hope to learn more about you guys and myself during my stay here. To reiterate again, I appreciate the civil discussion.

Nope, it's not understandable.

It's insecurity, jealousy and perhaps a little envy. Which equates into cockblocking behaviors. This is not uncommon in certain social circles, and among those that feel their only appeal to women is in a 'protector' sense. This often leads to violence, and paranoid and inexperienced young women often do their best to cause it by failing to act socially appropriate when approached.

So you and your friends lump every new guy that approaches a woman in your pack clumsily into the pick up artist camp. Then treat them with contempt, jealousy and sometimes even uncalled for violence.

I'd say that most real PUA's would avoid your functions, and gang/cult mentality like the plague.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM

I agree. You guys need to stop being so judgemental of every other guy that's not in your organization.

And, you may THINK that you are using the drunk guy punch wimpy guy thing as a DHV, but believe, you are NOT DHVing yourselves. You are in reality doing just the opposite, whether you want to ADMIT that or not is a different story.

Let me clarify, I don't agree with them, not totally, or otherwise I wouldn't be here seeking advice from PUAs. I like to evaluate arguments from both sides before reaching a conclusion.

To be fair, our natural's concerns for the community isn't motivated at all by fear. Their point of view is that PUA tends to use women for sex alone (which is very prevalent in the community but obviously not everybody does it. Non of the material I've read so far explictly condon such behavior).

Additionally, our functions are designed to create comfort first, excitement second. Most of our brothers have significant others so they don't think along the same line with someone who may not have such a commitment. As I understand, one of the underlying principal of venusian art is to disrupt comfort and create uncertainty.

Third, a little selfish reason from the naturals against PUA, perhaps, is their feeling of that PUA have "cheated" nature. Although they never stated it, perhaps they feel the same way for PUA comparing to say, women with beautiful breasts feel about women who had breast enlargement surgery.

Afterall, I must curiously note that it seems it takes MASSIVE amount of training, disclpline and commitment for a total beginner (say, World of warcraft nerd) to rise to the level of even a moderate natural, not to mention the psychological unrest involved.

Good deal. I suspected as much.

Look, I suspect many of the fellows you're talking about are nothing more than big kids trying to fit in and get their needs met anyway they know how. It's sad really. Sometime it seems like every thing's against you out here in the real world.

I'm a 46 y.o. married, former Marine that's seen about every sort of shyt you can imagine.

I know you feel like you're getting hammered on both sides of the equation, and you probably are.

Every situation and ever individual is different. And I can't give you a formula that will work every time, other than just using good judgment and evaluating others behavior based upon logical assessments. Then taking whatever action is appropriate or not.

I suspect guys will continue to try to talk to chicks, and attempt to enter into relationships with them. Chicks need to be able to politely turn down such approaches, whether clumsy or not without turning the situation into a riot. And guys need to keep things in perspective.

I don't envy your position, but feel I think there's a happy medium here some place.

Beyond that, we as a community are no more responsible for the clumsy attempts of some young men that attend your functions, as you and your buds are responsible for our failure to pick up the target of our choice. This stuff has been going on since the dawn of time itself, and obviously some guys are simply emulating what they've seen or heard from a variety of pop culture sources.

We never suggest anyone harass a woman, or a social group. On the contrary. Our goal are mutually satisfying high quality relationships, and safe interactions between all involved.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM