Jsmooth I think you have an academic point but not a practical one.

Young guys want to get laid too, so very few normal guys are going to sacrifice, or as Napolean Hill said, sexually sublimate and transmute that desire into more worthy life goals.

I wish I would have started PUA earlier even in lieu of the academic and monetary success I had at a young age. Then shit would have been handled years earlier and I could focus on other life goals at a more advantageous age.

The only distinction I would make is that if I was very young again I would focus a lot more on inner game then outer game and high level technique.

I agree that as a general rule it's better to focus on inner game when you're young as the outer game may be too much to get your head around

Dear Jsmooth and all other older PUA's
I respectfully disagree with this thread. The community has been such a positive influence in my life that I can not agree with anyone who says me being here is a mistake. The sooner we work on our problems the sooner they will be solved. Also look at maslows pyramid.

Maslows pyramid is a powerful psychological tool that breaks life into five levels (like the food pyramid but this time it makes sense). First its physiological (food water other essentials), then safety, then love/belonging(this is where sex is), then esteem, and finally self-actualization. What you guys are suggesting is skipping love and belonging and pushing towards esteem(inner game) and self-actualization(improving your and others lives). However noble this thought is its against human nature, we want to find sex before we give a shit about solving problems or improving our lives. Its hardwired into our brain to be like this. You guys are putting unrealistic expectations on young people. Your not the only one with these expectations, every year new college students are made to listen to this garbage and push through hopelessly with a view that later in life it will just get better. Well I already did that, it was called highschool. It sucked. Then I was made to believe college would be better. Now I get to college and its the rest of your life will get better once your out of college. What next? When I get a job. Then a house? Its endless. I am not buying into this mentality that says it will just get better without me putting in work to make it better. I am not buying into sitting around waiting for the right time to make it better either. I am going to put out an effort until I achieve my goals. Then I will get some new goals. Repeat. Repeat again. Repeat until I die. I will die without regret though.

Peace,
Tippicanoe

What Jon is saying makes sense, but the reality is, most straight guys and also most females, aged between 17-21, want to get laid and with the legal drinking age in most countries outside the US being 18, if any such guys find out about pick up, they're going to want to do it, go to night clubs and start illegally downloading overpriced seduction information, even though they should really be focusing on getting good grades at college - university, for those guys who are academically inclined.

Whether most guys aged 17-21 have the maturity and persistence to stick with it and deal with rejections, is another thing. There's also the flipside, that if social dynamics and how to have social skills, was actually taught compulsorily in all high school to both genders from the 8th to 12th grades, there probably wouldn't be a much of a need for a pickup community that sells mostly recycled information and financially preys on the frustrations of guys, who don't have any social skills, because their parents didn't bother teaching them how to acquire them, as pickup is a lot of work.

It's not in the physiological mental makeup of most females to approach a guy, as they want a guy to approach them, hence why teenage guys need social dynamics training, more than teenage females do.

They say that age is just a number . . . I've met 16 year olds who started and ran highly successful businesses. I've met teenagers who traveled the World alone. There are 16 year olds who support HIS/HER parents. These kids are of course, on one end of the maturity bell curve. (Which by the way is probably not always a good thing but this is another topic . . . )

The age range that separates the men from the boys is probably around 21 - 30. This age range is the big divider. Perhaps some of you have noticed . . . you'll see a whole lot of 25 year olds who are 25 only in age and body. The rest . . . the kid's a 15 year old. Gets fed and housed from his parents. Plays video games all day long. Lives day to day with no apparent awareness of anything that is around him. All he wants to do is eat, shit, sleep, fuck, and play video games. (Judging by the posts in this forum, many belong in this category or are destined to be in this category)

On the other hand, there are many, many 25 year olds who have their shit together. This is the time in any man's life to get their shit going! And really . . . success isn't that important now. Successes take time. What is important at this age is the WORK that is required to achieve ANY kind of success. The only difference between the 25 year old who makes millions from an app development or the 25 year old who makes 10 dollars an hour trying all sorts of different day jobs is asymmetrical level of knowledge. Knowledge can be gained. Passion, maturity, and work ethics are far more difficult to develop.

So what does ^this BS have to do with pick up? I'd say that a great majority of 16 year olds can read and study pick up all they'd like but it won't happen. They just don't have the maturity . . . and I refuse to believe it will F them up much either. They don't have enough 'powers' to really cause any damage. To most in this age group, PU is a fun read, a few jokes, and a couple of "dares" from their buddies: Harmless. . .

^This is the reality for half of the guys in the 20 to 30 age group. Hmm. . . probably more than half. And when I really think about. That's it . . . the separation that occurs in this age group lasts until death.

I think I was about 16 when I first got into the whole "PUA" community. I definitely believe that was to early, and really clouded my judgment.

Picture trying to run club game at school...

Hey, when you don't get it, then you're basically walking in darkness. Someone who is successful tells you to do this and that, then chances are you're gonna listen and apply it.

Judging by this post, I've already reached my Quarter Life Crisis, and I'm only 18. I used to think just alike all my friends and such and I just went through a bunch of emotionally/life changing events that completely changed my focus in life and my outlook. I am happier and more focused in my life, though I find it hard to naturally connect with people my age now because I'm just not a, go crazy, party person anymore, forget responsibilities etc. I have to fake it around a lot of people, and I find going and hanging out with my friends where we do absolutely nothing a social chore that is required to maintain the connections I have with my friends.

Though, this dramatic 180 change in my life has also rapidly expanded my natural game it seems and talking to women just became so much easier, connecting with them, making them laugh, and getting them to like me without even trying. I guess this is just a side affect of more or less becoming alpha with my life and priorities and who I am? At least, it's what it feels like. I have two home businesses and a side job and am making a decent bit of money, so I guess I just matured earlier than others? Even though my facial hair isn't even completely developed yet. Lol

I dont think you did. I think it sounds like you are going in the wrong direction more than anything. Faking it and finding being social a chore is not a good start!

^ maybe this is a good example of the OP's post. you are still young.

@ OP I kinda agree with you, I have a little brother who is 12 and I wouldnt dream of trying to make him ever read a pickup book....instead Id like to offer him advice and am looking forward to him growing up and meeting girls and be there to offer my advice (if he will listen)

I learnt at the age 18 and yea I think it wasnt the best for me at the time... and Im even pretty embarrassed about some of my learning curves. But now I wouldnt change a thing because of the things I learnt. Now I'm 21 and over the last year Ive never been so happy in my life =)

_________________
I'ma be what I set out to be, without a doubt undoubtedly, and all those who look down on me I'm tearin down your balcony, no if ands or buts, don't try to ask him why or how can he

Right, I'm 17, and I started gaming about 6 months back, and I could hardly say it's been a bad idea. It's opened a whole branch of opportunities which I would never have had access to before. I found myself highly interested in the entire self-improvement genre, from general 'making friends' stuff to fitness, all of which has improved my life dramatically.

I mean, yeah, I'm young and impressionable, but isn't that the point? The older you get, the slower your brain produces neurons and synapses, meaning that the earlier you shape your brain into what you want it to be, the better. At this young and impressionable age I can choose what paths I want to go down, I can drill the basics into myself meaning I can expand with much more efficiency at a later age. Grow into the person that I want to be.

But yeah, that's just my two cents. And lets face it, no-one should be gaming, at any age.

pretty interesting point of view

It's not that I find being social a chore, I enjoy being social, when we are doing something. When the only thing my friends do is sit around and smoke all day, it's a waste of time for me to go over there, sit and do nothing - I don't even smoke anymore because I don't like how it makes me introverted with hightened anxiety. As far as being social, I get immense pleasure from going out and talking to new people, navigating their minds like little playing boards. Poking at their mental functions with verbal subtlties, seeing what responses I can get, allowing me to get a true picture of who they are. Not to mention, everytime I go out I meet at least 1 person, oftentimes 2, who does something with their life that is a major asset to me.

The comments about my friends is just me pointing out I've matured past my friends, rather... I'm have a different direction going in my life. They're stuck on this direction of not taking their life seriously.

It's not that I find being social a chore, it's just I find it a chore to hang out with the same group of friends who smoke pot everyday, which is what we did all throughout high school. It's like having to repeat live in the same episode of a TV show over and over again. I feel I have to do it though, because the benefits they offer to my life presently are far too much to just give up, so I do what I have to do to maintain the friendships. Anytime I offer to go out and meet some girls, they would rather sit around and smoke weed. The only one in the group who has alpha qualities and gets practically every girl he talks to, doesn't feel like going out to do it because he's already done it so much that it's like walking down the street for him and doesn't get him anything then he already has.

I think I do need more friends who are on the same directional path I am on, but there's too much that I'd be giving up if I stopped hanging out with these guys just because they are boring. They are assets in my life lol. Though this doesn't mean I can't have more friends... On this path I'm on it's just so difficult to find friends who want to do similar things as me. It's like on this path there's not really any time to 'chill' with friends. The only time I see being social with friends with a similar mindset as me, is when we are out actively doing something, and not sitting around chilling.

I'm teaching my thirteen year old cousin many of my techniques that i use in seduction, though, I will admit, my game is quite different from PUA's in some sense, I don't consider myself a PUA, 24 women in 2 years does not a pick-up artist make from the stories I hear about Pick-Up artist, and I don't pick-up women, I take advantage of social situation for which sex is a possibility, or getting a date is a possibility. A woman's reading the same book I just read or am reading (social situation), we're at a conference together, she's at an event i'm throwing, we're running in a marathon together, we're at a friends CD release party... any of these things are my bread and butter. I've rarely picked up women at clubs, I have to make sure my skills were capable of doing it, but, I'm not a huge fan of clubs. I've rarely stopped women in the street, however, I have and have had good success about 50% of those whose numbers I asked for, I got, and that was in just 3 to 5 minutes of conversation.

But, I believe that a lot of Game can be used in everyday life to become popular, to be the Alpha Male, to be respsected, talked about, and admired. Students who are liked get graded more leniently by teachers (at least those who are well liked for their social savvy).

Much of the PUA community, I would agree, is quite innapropriate for someone under 21, because they just don't serve a purpose. High School is that closed community, like that of the cavemen, and reputation is everything--where you can approach dozens of women on the street without ever getting a reputation, you approach two or three girls without success, you get a reputation. What I'm teaching my cousin is how to create a social circle, how to expand yourself into others social circles, how to become a person of the people whose liked and talked about. He could do it the way I did it in High School, the shadow, the person who was remembered, but neither liked nor hated, just accepted everywhere. Or the way I do it now, I'm the center of attention whether I'm at a Marylin Manson concert with goth and rocker friends or I'm at a Mellissa Etheridge Concert with lesbian friends. I've learned social group mastery, and I've placed myself as the go to person in those groups, and at 23, that's saying something, since I usually am the least educated, and make the least amount of money (I've started my own Hypnotherapist business).

Social Circle mastey started in persuasion material like so much of the PUA community, and moved its way to the PUA's. It's powerful, it's vibrant, and it's the easiest way to pick-up women. However, I also teach him how to recognize when a girl's attracted to him, and teach him a lot of natural game, just how to be playful, talkative, and a storyteller, so that he can build attraction. Also, I've taught him several structures of disarming touch, that can increase arousal or just intimacy.

There are plenty of great techniques to teach people under the age of 21 about the pick-up community, but, I agree with the OP, the basic community structure doesn't have much use for people under 21. However, college parties can definitely work well.

I am now 17, started learning PUA when I was 15. This stuff has done me more good than bad, on more levels than women alone.

It should be still acceptable as long as you know your priorities and don't dedicate your life to it. Logistics are a bitch but you can work that out. I think better arguement would be work on inner game and social skills until you sort out your logistics and then focus on seduction.

For you guys that have been in the game a couple of years no offense but being older and being in the game longer hindsight is 20/20 and because of the game and what I know with it... There are some things about women that I have learned that I won't be able to unlearn.

-Fact that women cheat very often on boyfriends and husbands
-They go home with guys all the time
-They are just as sexually dirty minded as we are
-They want erotic fantasies just as much if not more than us
-etc....

These are things that can alter your perspective on women for a long time. It can make it hard to trust women and it can definitely make you start seeing women as just an object instead of that wonderful looking creature you get a feeling for.

There are both hazards to learning the Game psychologically. Also, there are commitment issues that many underage PUAs don't want to deal with. Not saying there aren't some of you that can make that decision at a younger age and do well with it. Congrats to you! The majority of guys can't and shouldn't.

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Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...