Everything you mentioned(like speed of finding out whether she has a bf can be done within first few minutes of conversation.) The question is what are your first words. You can start with "Hi, can you help me find blah blah blah - Which way is (insert place)" and then when she xplains just cut her in the middle of the sentence saying "I actually know where it is , I just used it as an excuse to talk to you because I thought you were cute."-again not necessarily the way I' go, but still better than starting with you're cute. Saying you're cute right away is a form of a pull-and whats natural reaction of a tense organism(girl who isn't used to you yet) is? Push. That's why many girls won't even listen to you. Even if you're good looking. By starting neutral you're buying yourself a little bit more time, so that your personality can shine through.


Peace.

The following statements speak volumes to your immaturity and lack of success.

That's ok I wasn't stating an opinion I was stating fact. You have no credibility what so ever. Taking advice from you is like taking advice from a drug addict about impulse control, its foolish.

I've seen my fair share of "ugly guys” (in the subjective and unquantifiable sense) who have had sex with plenty of women. In fact, the guys who were “ugly” had the most success when they were very honest about their intentions. Looks were definitely not a part of the equation unless the individual in question made it a part of the equation. I don't know how I look because that is not something I worry about. I just go out and do. You’re saying "going direct is for noobies" and you are simply abusing the meaning of the phrase, not fully understanding what it means to go “direct”. Your words hold no weight and your brain might as well be that of a fool’s.

To dickflow.

We're talking about openers here. Whatever you do in your follow up game isn't the subject of this discussion.

Opener=first words you use.

You try to judge my looks, my intelligence and my credibility without ever meeting me. Says a lot about you.

As for ugly guys getting laid a lot=I'm glad for them, if they're honest with their intentions-that's good, but in my experience, every overweight guy, with skin problems and anything that would be called ugly by society's norms, never got laid by opening direct. I'd even go as far as saying that they never got even a chance to display their personality.

Your comparison of me to a drug addict is stupid. Not even funny. Think of something a bit more creative next time.

Also, I believe every person has a right for opinion, no matter how ridiculous it is.

That's not a reason to be a dickhead, dickflow.

If your ugly and your going to go indirect, what makes you think that you can change her mind about you?

My sentiments exactly. He seems to be under the illusion that you can find a way to sneak into a woman's pants.

I stop this conversation because you obviously are arguing just for the sake of it.

Not really, you are being a bloke for the sake of being a bloke. But I agree we should stop arguing because you have no idea what you are talking about. You still think that "looks" is a part of the equation, I feel sorry for you...

you still think they're not. I'm sorry for you.

ok. as for the coment in the orginal post saying something about getting blow out 3000 times cus of direct. ok well wether you go dirrect or indirect it dosnt matter. you are new to thisand you sre still gona get blown out.

as for this ugly vs goodlooking stuff, i think its horse shit. iv experienced both forms of game while being both extremly good looking and realy ugly and it realy makes no difference.

as for the matter at hand, each style of game both has the equal amount of pros and cons so it dosnt realy matter what style of game you start with. however what should definately be considerd is the fact that diferent people work better with different styles of game. there is no dominant method, just different ones.

you see the thing is, when it comes to starting out in the game, indiect is always gona atract more ppl simply because its the most tangeble and easy to learn. these newbies dont have a dam clue about inner game and how outer game effects it or callibration methods or adopting certain atitudes to boost direct game. they dont know any of that shit!!! they are clueless. and to start off with direct game would be like throwing them in the deep end.

newbies want structure, they wnat modles, they want lines and routines, they want guidence. and thats wat indirect game offers. indirect game is great for newbies because it gives them great frame work.

i think going direct can be creepy if done improperly.
saying I find you beautiful and lets talk etc can be very intimidating
The way I do direct game is tell them I'm here to pickup women and I find you to have attracted my attention but there are plenty of hot girls around so what makes you special