Yes, and if you transplanted an average guys personality into OP he'd do better as well. His social skills are off. Not his attraction skills, sexualization skills, or anything else that comes after. Just the skills that make people comfortable interacting with you are off. Hence as you said, he should address those first.

When people are watching your youtube vides and keep referencing mental disabilities, it's not a good thing or simply haters. Because the girls you're interacting with are probably thinking the same thing. You're not approaching PUA's on a forum who may admire your balls, you're approaching chicks who umms and ahhs and weird topics are gonna see you as a creep or someone with mental problems. That's the harsh truth...how you come across isn't good. And you can spin it as screening for a chick who likes you for you, but if that's the case, don't expect to find cute or even average or even chubby girls to get turned on by that.

When I speak of looks, I am talking not just face value the way you seem to obsess but, instead, i am including aesthetics, efforts it takes to be muscular and toned the way he was. I also stated he embodies many if not all of the qualities PU promotes. I am including how he looks when self amusing, dancing, taking over booths just to flex, and entertain himself. You write everything off declaring looks. You do the same looking for some simple linear path the way many do for an easy answer. Society does this with promoting marriage, being a beta male provider, courting women, and partaking in the dating game.
And back to obsessing over looks again. You cannot help yourself can you? Simply beating a dead horse! PU but, follow society with monogamy, commitment, marriage, and having to look a specific way in order to win over a woman. What the fuck is the point of game with all this obsession over how another man looks?
He is not Zyzz though. I could learn from him at a music fest or rave. I would get in state pretty easy being around that kind of energy but, I sure as fuck would not be a better Zyzz since, he is Zyzz. A boot camp costs thousands and it has been established, many instructors have been caught paying actresses. Zyzz just pulled.
So, in order to self amuse, you need to be Zyzz? Someone outside PU could not possibly help someone with lesser game get girls? I am really poking holes through everything you are saying here. Way too much obsession with how this man looks.


He looks the part (authenticity) plays into his persona and character. In that regard, he really owns it, and trolls PU. More importantly, the way you beat looks to death dismisses everything he did do from his starting to point to what we know as being Zyzz.



It took lots of work to get there steroids or not.

http://www.rooshvforum.com/attachment.php?aid=7211


YaBoyDave was completely transparent as seen above.lol

Exactly. Zyzz self amuses, he trolls, he inspires, made people laugh, and people actually cared assuming he passed. Only twenty some odd years and this man has inspired millions; a lot more then PU. The unfortunate thing is that, people took things the wrong way assuming because you lift weights, you will get girls. It removed persona, the character that is Zyzz, and simply put, the no hold bars lols at life. He just made people laugh and was fun to be around so everyone wanted to be part of the aesthetic crew and women fucked him. Not hard to imagine since, cult shit does not breed Zyzz.
I think he is not bringing the party. There is being a dancing monkey since, most of what is taught in PU is not authentic nor is being an extreme extrovert the way Zyzz is. More importantly, if you had someone inplant Zyzz persona into you, you would be too into your own world to give a fuck. You would just lift, chat up girls, nail her, and dance or do push ups in the middle of the street because you felt you needed a pump. This guy is fucking ridiculous.
So, you now agree Zyzz being above average guy status, he with Zyzz persona would harpoon girls. Good for you.

I feel like he would get away with more if he just brought the party, self amuse, and once there, the rest is history. You are not seeking validation or for her to like you. You will just as likely clown away, dance, and go get more girls.
Those same people do not do PU actively or likely ever. Typing attacks and flame wars on youtube do not insinuate game or even the ability to do cold approach or develop even a relationship.

007, youtube, squating casanova. He got IP banned by Jeffy but, he is pretty good. He is Asian and (no racist), he countered stereotypes on the forums there about race or culture. https://www.youtube.com/user/SquattinCassanova

he too works out and is sort of like Mike Chang of Six packs abs only he does PU an lifts very heavy judging his pics and videos.
Absolute crap. He may need to approach several hundreds before finding those who like him for him taking the spam approach but, there is a more productive way of doing things. I feel like you guys are correct that there are ways of approaching that could be more probable in PU.

Now that I'm actually reading you two go back and forth I'm even more confused than before. You basically agree with each other, and keep getting hung up on slight differences that nearly boil down to semantics.

_________________
RSDTyler

Difference of opinion maybe. There was too much over emphasis in how someone looks rather than what it is he does. V, you acknowledge the personality, the persona, the package that is Zyzz who embodied that which many would kill to acquire in PU or even an ounce of what he harnessed.

Now, an even a better troll was Yabodave.



Too bad he went to jail. If he protected his identity better, we would continue to laugh. In many ways, he could be even more inspiring to others minus going to jail since, he did declare himself at one time or another that he was forever alone. Not sure what changed but, he clearly overcame it. I suspect there is some resentment towards women hence the troll videos and time spent to out whores.

Just about everything Neo suggested was for OP to work on his mental stuff(verbal skills, body language, etc). I'm actually the one who brought up working out and clothing.

If I were to summarize Neo's post, it would be "Yeah, Zyzz got attractive girls, but he needed his body to do it. If a skinny guy acted like Zyzz did around women, he would have nowhere near the success". Which I agree with.

You are saying "Zyzz's mindset and attitude in life, lead to him achieving his body, and his personality was a perfect fit for his body". I also agree with this.

I don't even see it as a disagreement. It's basically a wording difference. You both agree that you should work on your body, your mindset and your social skills. There is some small difference on emphasis.

_________________
RSDTyler

None of us are foolish enough to post videos living the way Zyzz did. Nobody does that who is not looking to cash in which should then make people suspicious.
Zyzz was the skinny guy but he transformed and transcended conventional boundaries. People rather going beyond that. People are stupid. They want a quick fix. Zyzz got laid because he got big or maybe, just maybe the hard work he put into his body is attractive to women potentially more so than the skin deep appearance. Everyone wants that quick fix; six pack abs in a minute, lose fat on some new supplement that promises nonsense, the trophy wife, the fast life, and easy life YOLO.

People want some equation rather than accepting randomness while chasing some end point.
I always admired Arnold. My old man taught me to admire his mind. Years later, I began to understand that the mind must conceive overcoming barriers and obstacles in order to transcend their life as well as those around them.
The finger pointing to the moon is not the moon.

People mistake the simple things for the solution. Zyzz is muscular so that in and of itself must be why he gets laid rather than acknowledging that the equalities he expresses are attractive to most women. I think again this is where PU is a faulty system because the amount of energy expressed is so much more significant to the miniscule of reward you receive. Zyzz never dedicated all this time to PU. He went after a variety of life goals and women followed him there.

This logic is incorrect. Yes, the people who are saying he has mental disabilities, they may be virgins, it doesn't matter, they're representative of society. They're representative of who OP is likely to interact with daily. If you are selling a product and most people say it smells funny, do you then say "well, none of you people know how to run a business or have a background in sales so your opinion doesnt matter." No you don't. And lets not get into semantics, I'm just saying that OP is obviously coming across as really weird, creepy and "cringey." If you showed OP's vid to 10 of your friends, they'd say it was creepy. Doesnt matter if they're fat, poor, do PU or whatever, they'd say the same. So while guys in PU may admire his balls, the average girl/person only sees creep.

I'm just calling a spade a spade man. Hard work is attractive to women but just stop trying to make this guys game some jedi stuff. Girls liked the way he looked, he flaunted it, he got them. This is what you're missing. I have respect for the OP, going out, filming approaches, buying the shit to record, putting yourself out there, getting so many rejections...respect. I couldnt do that. I'd probably give up myself. But I can still say, that even though he is working hella hard at it, more than most guys in PU tbh, girls arent choosing him because they pick up on his work ethic. I have much respect for Zyzz, not because of the chicks he got, because to get in shape like that requires alot of discipline. But I'm just calling it as it is, he got girls primarily because he looked like that. And looking like that gave him the confidence to do what he did. I've sarged with guys with far better game, more direct, more ballsy and got girls from them just because as the girls said they liked my looks. And the PUAs who saw the girls choose me, consistently, would make excuses beyond that my looks played a huge part. If I got girls from saying nothing, the PUAs would say "wow, you got that chick because you showed so much disinterest." Nvm that the girls were saying I like your friend he's hot. It's not fair but its what happens. Their balls which were much bigger than mine, didn't matter. And I can admit I wasnt getting the chicks due to better game or whatever.

I'm not even considering OP's looks here, just responding the your Zyzz example. Op needs to work on having a normal conversation and lose the creep vibe. Maybe it's his looks but what I see more is his speech patterns and topics. The foundation is bad, so he should fix that before building on top of that.

No sunny jim; it is correct. Do you actively do PU? Yet, you have an opinion. The forum is full of guys with opinions. This entire thread is about some guy who actually does PU. Instead of personalizing it, I brought up Zyzz being someone who actually has videos out. YaboyDave being another who has full on fuck closes online in a trolling funny manner. You say incorrect, you will continue to tell me why from the comfort of your living room with your gf but, how many sets did you open today? Yesterday? Last week? Last year?


That is where you are wrong. Forums are places where there is a miniscule amount of actual value to be found. Then again, there is even lesser value through mainstream media, society talking through their nose brow beating men into submitting to be provider male. You cannot have it both ways. He either approaches awkwardly and overcomes his sticking points or he follows the beaten path of marriage, divorce, custody battles for his children, and child support to a woman who may or may not have had given birth to his biological children.


I have no fucking clue what you are trying to say. Virgins are a representative of who OP likely interacts with or more likely, the socially conditioned are who he interacts with? Something I dislike about PU is misogyny because I know I have enough of it as is without someone who is suppose to be a role model or mentor expressing it openly. Tyler makes great points about being a beta male provider. Sexodus and mgtow do the same with pointing this out.
Do you own a business? Unless you do, how would you know? You target a particular group of people, you take in feedback from those purchasing the product. Tyler disregards most feedback because it is in fact from virgins, guys with opinions who do not leave their apartment in 2015.
Fair enough but, support constructive criticism with an alternative. I refuse to share my personal life without miniscule amounts of tidbits of info from personal experience. I refuse to share footage of my personal life or PU experience. 007 has which is awesome. I feel the need to encourage the action he is taking. Instead of attacking or saying he looks like he has autism, i rather give some positive feedback as well as resources he could look at. Squatin Casanova is a channel I suggested. I never met him before but, he takes actions, he has a lot of PU experience, infield, many programs taken, and is just a good resource. I also linked videos of Zyzz. I also linked search engines that include the video where Yaboydave pig roasts a engaged woman with a buddy. This is an alternative to virgin flame wars and negative youtube comments from guys who do not pull or even have the balls to approach.
If we compare it to Zyzz or Yaboydave, there is no comparison. None to Squatin Casanova but, he will improve. He will not if he follows the negative comments and offs himself. Many of those who gravitate towards PU have struggled their whole life with women. You have not had this experience with women so you have said. You are in a relationship. Monogamy does not sharpen PU skills. One of the most destructive things about monogamous relationships especially marriage is that, men are worse off then before they got involved. Their emotionally in a wreck losing the woman, their children, financial ruins, and starting over again without any skill. I wish this on nobody.
according to the Game, PUAs must be different from what everyone else says or does.
Its easy to say coming from someone who is not doing PU currently. This is not a personal attack man. It is the truth. You have a permanent supply of having sex. He does not. I do not unless I go do PU and pull. I found myself in a position where I have multiple women in my life and I will turn down the ones pushing the wrong things (pig roasts, gang bangs, wanting children now). It is a good feeling but, no girl spells happen still. His game is not like Zyzz or Dave or Casanova but, who is? if he sticks with it, he will improve. If he approaches a 100 girls and gets a few, who is to call him a failure? I do feel like spamming is the less productive way of going about PU.
You want something linear. You want the easy answer. He looks a certain way so, it must only be because how he looks and in and of itself, he offered no value. What Zyzz did was attractive to lots of women. If OP had his personality, he would get more girls because Zyzz was less tense. He was passionate about a lot of things. He was fun. Fun is something OP is missing.
I think this is why we just do not see eye to eye. It came easy to you. It does not come easy to him. Instead of acknowledging that and trying to understand it despite no experience there, you say you would give up on yourself. I will always respect 007 and anybody like him who it never came easy and they persist despite the outcomes. I respect Dave because he said he was forever alone and he achieved despite being forever alone or self proclaimed.
This is really becoming a waste of time. I agree to disagree. Again.. you go back to looks rather than acknowledging Zyzz had other qualities. Zyzz did not wake up one day and women just fell out of the sky feeding him grapes and sucking his dick. He busted his ass in the gym, he transcended his life beyond barriers having the balls and desire to want more of it. He seen he had what it takes to be that man. Arnold Schwarzenegger did the same with body building as mentioned in his autobiography. He saw it before the rest of the world would. This is a quality I always admire in people. Being a man of vision is attractive because looks will fail you.

To be honest, I kind of feel sympathy for you based upon your perspective with LOOKS. You obsess over it. If you do have a gf and we take your looks obsession into account, she is with you not because she likes or loves but you but solely because of how you look. If you were in a accident she would be sucking the next guy off? This is a shitty perspective to have of the world. No doubt, there are women like this out there but, you will continue to see the world through that lens.
I am getting the feeling he does not have many friends making social skills even more trouble some.

Which is why both of us keep telling him he needs to make friends, instead of sauntering up to TWO random women per day and creeping them out.

He's left the easiest place to meet women(college) and gone to the hardest place to meet women(the street). All the while, lacking basic skills. He will struggle in college, but totally fail at street pickup. His plan is talk to just 1,000 women in the course of the next two years. I am very confident, he will still be a virgin at this point, if all he does is read about game and do TWO approaches per day.

That's an unbelievable waste of two years of what should be some of the best years of his life.

Not everything should be encouraged. If someone said their life goal was to get into a televised MMA match, and the way they planned to do it, was by playing every MMA video game ever, and doing lots of cardio for the next two years, would you encourage that too? It's certain to fail.

Saying "You keep playing those video games! And keep doing Zumba! That's closer than most people get to being a competitive MMA fighter!". Encouraging poorly thought out processes, just reinforces failure. This is one of my main issues with the "Everybody gets a trophy" mentality in culture.

_________________
RSDTyler

Yes to the bolded part. Are you really arguing that OP isn't creepy in his videos? Are you really saying that in all or most of his approaches, the girls weren't creeped out? They weren't not attracted...they were creeped out. So the girls in the video look creeped out, people are telling him online he was a creep...but that doesn't matter, keep doing it, you'll get better.
How is saying work on social skills, making friends or get a coach not an alternative. Keep in mind, I never said to not approach. I'm the guy saying "you have halitosis, get it fixed and keep approaching." Your the guy saying "good job, keep doing it but add xyz."
His target group is creeped out. I can't believe you're acting like it's not creepy.
Why 2 alteratives? I'm saying he should focus on the awkwardness and fix that. Also, you keep saying I'm obsessed with looks, you're way obsessed with all these mens rights stuff. Nobody is talking about feminism, divorce, child support or whatever else. If you see girls rejecting a weird guy as some feminism thing well that's your thing.
You bring up Zyzz and these guys who are ripped and fucked girls with no effort, (from what you said, Dave fucked some married chick who hit him up for sex when he didn't do anything) and when I point out that they used their looks primarily, I'm obsessed with looks? I say I admire Zyzz discipline above anything else, you hone into looks. Who's obsessed here? lol. I'm more sorry for you joe, because you have some really negative views about women. By your own words, most are cock carousel riding, quick to divorce and take your money while making you father another man's child. I couldnt wake up in the morning and have to worry about the things you've admitted you worry about. All you can do is assume I think the way you think i would, but I don't. But from your own words, you've said you have these thoughts. Maybe it's not you but your environment. If that's the case, maybe you should move. But, I would hate to be poisoned by your pessimistic thoughts about women.

No, my game doesn't get dulled in a relationship, that's stupid and the incorrect way to be in a relationship. Why? Because I still flirt with my gf daily, I still am aggressive sexually, I still live my life beyond her and I still improve myself while with her. So I could wake up tomorrow and be dumped and my game would still be sharper than it was 6 months ago. Sorry man, I aint the guy who begged a girl to be my gf and gave up my life for her so whatever happens I'll be fine. Your thoughts on relationships, reflect more of who YOU are, not me. If you become an AFC due to a relationship, that's on you, not me.

I've seen advice like yours mess guys up more than anything. Because instead of giving true constructive criticism, either you can't identity creepiness and call it such, or your pussy footing to save OP's feelings. You can say "good work approaching, but damn...that was creepy. Change xyz." I've met so many guys in PU, who sucked, and became better when I met them because I gave them real constructive criticism. "Your clothes are terrible, your breath stinks, you need to work out, you have a twitch." They fixed it and got better. Before guys were just patting them on the back saying keep going you have balls while they took rejection after rejection. Telling the guy to follow the ripped dudes' ways is irresponsible, and ironically, when he gets rejected doing that, is actually going to make him resentful of his own looks, because that's the factor missing. Unless you're telling him to hit the gym, it won't help. But anyway, OP will continue doing what he's doing, as you say, and his results will be the same. The guy is depressed and has suicidal thoughts, so yeah, I guess agreeing that he should make some friends and fix the other shit in his life was a bad idea. He should keep going and just ask for numbers from girls who are already rejecting his presence. If you bring up Zyzz, expect a conversation about looks. My original advice had nothing to do with looks so lets stop playing that game.

You are trying to make a VERY socially awkward guy skip learning how to be a normal guy to be an "epic slayer" like Zyzz or Dave? While dropping out of school and being suicidal...nice. "Girls are looking at you like you're creepy and people online question your mental health? Screw them! They don't post infield! Keep going...Saying made up Chinese to a non Chinese asian woman is a great move....Keep doing stuff like that... Here look at this video of this guy getting girls easily!"

I wasn't going to get into this again, but...

Neo, I don't know why you're still arguing points with a guy who you can basically copy and paste the framework of his responses to everything.

You: hey OP I feel you are doing good in this area, but you need to fix xyz.

Certain predictable guy: No! If you change XYZ you are catering to female privilege that promotes screwing men over in (insert negetive things about marriage, and women being whores, and evil Jezebels in general). All you have to do it approach 100 women and you will get 1.

You: But all he has to do is work on xyz

Certain predictable guy: No! OP don't listen to anyone who does not have an infield video on the internet they are kjs who don't know how to PULL. Everything they say are lies or untested theory! (Then he goes on to talk about why he doesn't post infield videos, and skips over the fact that he just called himself a kj that does not know how to pull)

Then you just recycle the guy's last two responses to everything you say.

When he finishes his framework my plan is to help him remove any creepy shit and add basic social comfort. He already said he was going to do that, so you can't bash him anymore for not being willing to remove the creepiness. Matter of fact he has stated that he is testing out new topics already so he is on the road to taking your advice. Give him a little credit.

Granted he doesn't want to form a new social circle to test out his skills. He want's to jump into the deep end of the pool. That doesn't mean he will 100% fail. If he adds basic social comfort and polishes his routine he will get girls at his current look level and style. I've watched a bunch of his videos and not every one looks like the one he made this thread about. Some of them he had the girls really into him.

He used this technique I told him to drop and he is going to drop. He would intentionally KILL the girls enthusiasm then lean back and try and force the girl to pick up the conversation from scratch. He thought this made the girl invest and chase him. I see it making the girls uncomfortable and looking for exits. - Girls in general aren't great conversationalists on their own.

Also there were a few videos where he actually could have taken girls numbers since not 100% of his videos are of him creeping girls out. He just dragged on the conversation forever with a bunch of fluff and did 2 things. He made the girls buying temperature turn cold through the pointless chatter, and often he just simply left the interaction without asking for the phone number when he SHOULD have. Blowing himself out. Like I saw a few videos where as he was leaving without asking for some sort of close the girl would ask him his name to try and hook him back into the conversation. He would say his name then still leave. Blowing himself out.

These are just rookie mistakes. He is still he just needs to stop committing the same mistakes over and over again. My problem with him was that in other threads we already told him this shit, and then he posts a video like this ignoring all of the advice. It made me mad because I started actually caring about his success seeing him work so hard, but in this thread he is expressing a willingness to improve so he has my respect.

_________________
I am a hunter of human excellence. I seek out those individuals who break the norms
and demonstrate to all of us what’s really possible. I learn what those few
extraordinary individuals do that’s different from everybody else, and then emulate
them.

No offense V. I feel like so many people watched one too many boy meets girl frat boy mtv movies or tv shows. College campuses are full of women yes but, they are also full of feminist ideology, women right groups, groups that are anti male. If you are to behave in a particular non conformist, it could end not too well like the kid who was kicked off a campus in another thread.
I was complaining about the participation trophy but, the participation trophy comes in many forms as I stated already in this thread.

Sorry, I forgot to add his third response: "Insert negative view about society in general."

Again, 007 if you're still even following this thread, go ahead and work on those things I pointed out in my previous post and hit me up when you're done with that framework.

_________________
I am a hunter of human excellence. I seek out those individuals who break the norms
and demonstrate to all of us what’s really possible. I learn what those few
extraordinary individuals do that’s different from everybody else, and then emulate
them.

There being attracted or not is irrelevant. What you go back to is again how he looks which seems to be an obsession with you. It plays into female privilege. More important was that, 007 was doing PU, he saw someone who he was attracted too, and he acted upon it. He did not sit in the comfort of his apartment and not leave it in 2015. He has no gf. Rather than point and laugh that he did not get a gf, provide resource, speak about how you met your girl, and the things you did. Beating looks and changing the word looks to attraction is just more looks obsession.
There is nothing wrong with emphasizing social skills. Most of what you stated plays more into societal narrative of looking and being a certain way that plays into gynocentrism and female privilege. That is not PU. Its not stepping above your deviation. 007 is doing better than most people in that he is going for what he wants even if the women are above his deviation. Most men do not pull over their deviation ever. Most settle down with women and even get married once they are past their prime done riding the cock carousel of players who will not commit to them.

The question again was do you own a business? You went there and went back into what the woman thinks or what you assumed she thinks as you cannot read minds. If you can, please inform me of this discovery.

That is perfectly fine with fixing the awkwardness. My problem is the over emphasis on beating looks to death, on female privilege in the form of prioritizing what she thinks and feels rather than the guy in the community doing what you are supposedly affiliated no matter how loosely. It seems to continue to go over your head... your prioritizing of her being attracted, looks, her being creeped out plays back into female privilege rather than PU. Her opinion is irrelevant. She is not interested. So be it.


Yes, I did and I will again as he is a better example then the PU has to offer. Carry on.
Surprise... more about being ripped, more about how a guy looks, and of course, no effort because not only can you read minds, you knew how much effort and time Dave spent into pulling these girls? Granted from all the troll threads, videos, and links by Dave, he sure as hell offered a lot more value rather than beating looks to death on a PU forum.

vimeo.com/user6762004/videos

^ accurately depicts the kind of quality of women in the world today. Prioritizing what she wants (marriage/children) is irrelevant because their actions contradict earning that privilege. Marriage is something you are thinking about. There will always be someone better looking then you and I out there so, what does that mean for us? That any woman I end up pulling and your current gf is going to run around riding the cock carousel because someone is better looking?
I feel sorry for you. You have dropped PU. You are beating looks to death. If and when you and your girl break up, she can show up to the bar 30lbs heavier than she is now, and she will get laid before you. Not going out for women does not hinder their ability to get laid. The same cannot be said of men. Your game is not better then it was before you entered into a relationship.

And you claim I assume you think a specific way the same way you assume Zyzz or dave got laid because of looks alone. You are one dimensional in your perspective. To you, game is just how you look.


Bro, that is the saddest thing I have ever heard in my life. Your game does not get worse because you flirt with your gf? The guy I said who provoked a woman into a gang bang flirts and leads women into sex before shoving them off. You do not even flirt with other women lol

I think you meant "identify." So, they got better when you met them or because they met you? If he were passionate about being an artist and he met women through that outlet, this could be just as effective if he were working out. I know guys with guts who do not workout and they get hot girls. They were not obsessed with looks or being in front of a mirror. Even guys who model are not talking about looks as much as you have posted in this thread.

Yes, he should request more numbers but, likely they will flake still due to a lack of interest. It would be a great learning process.
Again, Zyzz and Dave would be in a much better position to post here. They are not here so, I linked their vids. Most people do not do what they preach. Instead, they preach and do not even go out. They create flame wars and talk nonsense.

Russell brand has poor mental health. it never stopped him from getting laid. The DSM is very general in diagnosing someone. Are you a psychiatrist? Psychologist? Yet, you are making online diagnosis. I await your prescription for 007.