Artful Roger Journal



Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests
Post new topic Reply to topic   Board index » Real Life Gaming » Field Reports




Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:03 pm 
Offline
Member of MPUA Forum

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 198
Location: London
Daniel, I've cut your post down not because it's not important, I genuinely appreciate the feedback and you sharing your situation and realizations, it really helps out a lot, and thank you for taking the time for the advice, you've given me a lot to think about, so I had to read your message a few times, contemplate and get into my own head objectively.
Quote:
Quote:
do I really want to be a PUA or do I just want a stable relationship? Gives some things to think about definitely.
It's really funny to me that you ended your post this way because as I was reading the first few paragraphs, I was thinking to myself "What he really wants is emotional intimacy more than anything else."

And that's completely fine. You seem to find yourself attracted to girls that come across as mature, stable, and emotionally open people - who happen to be in good relationships. I would guess that means that you are looking for mature, stable, emotionally open people who are capable of being in good relationships.
The funny thing is I actually noticed I had this tendency to be attracted to women older than me, not in a 40+ way, but definitely women who are 25+, but I shunned this thinking and after some analysis I realised my trail of thought was "I should focus on younger girls because it's what society expects of me. If I even get serious with a girl who is older than me, would it be weird she is older than my brother and his Fiancé?" Definitely got caught up in a terrible trail of doing what is expected of me rather than what I wanted.
Quote:
If that's the case, you simply need to go out there and "game" in a way that screens for that sort of girl. Ask the "hard" questions about where she is in her life, if she's single and looking, what she's looking for, what kind of relationship she is capable of having at this point in her life. Then, be as open and authentic about how you feel about those things in yourself, even if they are at odds. I love sexually open, emotionally intimate, affectionate, and stable girls. Therefore I need to be open about that. It might seem "beta" to tell a girl that I love affectionate girls and value intimacy and stability, but when I say those things, I am being strong and proud about who I am and saying "If you aren't able to provide that, have a nice day, it was great to meet you."
It's interesting you should say this, because I don't really think I've been someone who is approaching with the mindset of this is what I want in the girl; I mean I have some degree of knowledge and ideas. But to the point that you've explained it so throughly and detailed here makes me realise I really need to think this aspect through a little more. Right now I've always thought maybe if I just approach more, date more and sleep around more, then I'll know.
Quote:
Sure, you may clash and maybe you won't get laid, but you will be taking control of your dating life to get what you really want. Sure, you will identify emotionally unstable, manipulative, untrustworthy girls who you could bed and have sex with, but you will know that they really can't offer what you are looking for and you will let them pass. You'll screen out X number of girls and those potential hookups, but you will meet that girl that can satisfy you, you will know it from the start via your honesty and authenticity (and her response to it) and you will find that that is worth much more than a bunch of meaningless hookups with girls you didn't align with.
Admittedly reading this I was like, "yeah surely I won't meet many girls with such a focused list of traits" but then again why would I want to hook up with some who will ultimately piss me off. I think my approach style is just way too adaptable right now, so I kind of adapt myself to what the girl is looking for an ultimately not what I am.
Quote:
That leads to the all-important question: what is it you really want?

First, being a "PUA" is retarded. Don't fall into the trap of identifying yourself based on your social exploits. Its a deep, dark hole.

Second, if you replace that with "Do I really want to have a lot of casual sex or do I just want a stable relationship?" you arrive at a much better question to be asking yourself. I've said this before but there is nothing wrong with either of those things...if that is what you, and only you, genuinely want as a means of finding fulfillment in your life.
Right now, what I feel I want is to meet as many women as possible. Although I'm not saying no to a relationship, ultimately I would like to end up in something I'm proud of. I just feel I lack a lot perspective in the dating world and I really need to experience as many women as possible, in the context of casual sex. Not that I'm relying on that to help me choose "I want this girl" (although it could help), I'm just scared of getting in a relationship where after the 18 month honeymoon period is over we start resenting each other, and I want to move on. I guess I'm writing this is because it happened before with my last relationship.
Quote:
On the other hand, the exact opposite could hold true for someone else. Perhaps their friends or parents or whoever place great significance on being able to hold a stable, secure, intimate relationship. And if they find themselves single, they feel great pressure to get into a relationship, even if really, they don't want to be in one (casual sex or not).
This is an aspect that got me thinking, my parents are still together and I've posted about my brother getting married. So after thinking on this I guess there is an element of me wanting to be in a relationship because it's what my family has and I obviously enjoy my time with them, and I see them with their partners so I guess when we all meet up I'm the odd one out in a way. I reckon this is a bigger driver in my unconscious mind than I believe.
Quote:
I guess that point is, you really need to dig into your own emotions and evaluate what these things mean to you. And ask yourself if you are motivated by your own desires, by other people's views, or by a lack of self-esteem or worth. Only one of those is the correct answer and the second two are probably pretty inter-related (i.e. low self-worth means acting in a way to impress/please/demonstrate to others even if it is not truly what you want.)

I think you will find that if you look at certain situations such as this one, the writing will be on the wall as to what the proper decision is. I know it certainly was for me, even if I had my back turned to that wall for sometime.
Right now I think, I'm just being inconsistent with what I want; I'm certainly getting caught up in a cycle of going from what I want, to what I think my friends want of me, to what my family thinks I want of me. Like you put earlier I really need to get hold of my own things when it comes to dating and not be scared to be 100% honest with that whether with family, friends or girls I meet.

So I really need to give myself some time to work out, analyse and find out what that truly is - thanks for the help Daniel, definitely opened my eyes a bit.

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:08 am 
Offline
Member of MPUA Forum

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 198
Location: London
Quote:
Hey man, I see things are going pretty well over here! Nice to see.

About the girl you want a fling with. You can't force a fling, just game her as normal and see how she takes it. If she wants it and she knows you live far and are leaving soon then it's one of two things, either she wants a relationship too, or she wants a fling, too.

And if you're thinking of long-term gaming, it's possible. I've done so with a girl I knew and she was in Scotland and we chatted over Facebook. I pretty much gamed her like I would any other girl, however, we became something like pen pals, telling each other how our day went, etc. Add to that some cocky, funny statements, some teasing, some playfulness, and you keep the attraction up. Then when you see her next time there's a mutual attraction and comfort between the two of you and all you have to do really is to be normal and keep that going and escalate.
Hey man, thanks for stopping by. Yeah makes sense what you're saying, the thing is I've never actually long gamed before, my way of thinking was "oh I'll just get back in touch when she's back in town." Which I might add has never worked for me.

I do like the idea of keeping in touch with the occasional texting and Facebook message, we were actually texting quite a bit back and forth last night; so I think she would be into the whole pen-pal thing as you put it. But yeah as you said if I keep up the mutual attraction then when we see each other it's a given what will happen. With this I'm just gonna try it and see what happens, I'd rather get it wrong than avoid doing it to hurt me ego with her rejection.

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:11 pm 
Offline
Post of the month winner!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:53 am
Posts: 3102
Quote:
However my current sticking point is getting further than that, I can open and talk for a while I get a lot of numbers but I always fail with meet ups or dates. I really need to work on this, I don't why it is, maybe it's something completely out of my hands and something I can't control - but if it's consistent that can't be the case.
For ^this reason, you will find a lot of guys on this forum who claim that numbers are useless. However, if you cannot build a connection strong enough to warrant a 2nd meet-up, a one night stand will only be a trip to the ghetto for her and she'll never call you back again any ways. (Of course, for many, this is exactly what they think they want. . . )

You will probably see many iterations of the following strategy but let's keep it simple. All you need to really do is 1. Make her feel 100% safe with you. 2. Maker her feel 100% excited for you. That's about it. How?

Chapter 1. Have No Fear.

Parents have been telling their daughters to be aware of strangers since God told Eve to stay the fuck away from the serpent. This is "fear" is instilled into their souls. . . so unless she's a masochist with suicidal tendencies, she's not leaving her social ring of comfort unless this fear is somehow squashed. The good news is that this is easy and there are many ways to do it. You already wrote about chatting with a girl about your childhood, growing up in a certain neighborhood, etc. . . To make this better, try to get as specific as possible. The serpent didn't tell Eve, "Oh, I know people like that," He told Eve that he KNOWS GOD. Try to name specific names of people you might know. Specific shops, restaurants, schools, etc . . . And it's strange to think that people tend to believe that people with security and a job is more trustworthy than a person who does not have these things but I don't tell people what to believe. I just go with it. Often times, it's enough to tell people what you do and where. Whatever it is that you can think of, be as SPECIFIC as possible. Get in the habit of doing this and you'll begin to notice the transformation. . . it's a clear as a light bulb being flicked on.

Chapter 2. Are You Excited Yet?

Too many guys make the mistake of thinking that in order to get her excited for YOU, you need to get her excited for YOU. And they also think that in order to get her sexually aroused, you need to get her sexually aroused. This is absolutely NOT TRUE. Let me explain:

As a musician, you should know that people often "transfer" their emotions from one thing to another. You jam with your buddies, everything clicks, then you guys head to a bar/cafe and everything is just awesome. The beer tastes better. Chicks look hotter. You guys are more social and in a better mood. In this example, you gained excitement from a jam session but then projected that excitement to people you met a bar; this transference of both good and bad emotions occur all the time. Those of us understand this reality can associate/link the source of others' positive emotions to us.

I probably wrote about this hundreds of times on this forum:

1. Chat about holidays/vacations/dream getaways. Again, specific is better than general. The time I "motorcycled through Vietnam and a family on the beach invited me to join their picnic and shared shots of some vodka type thing together. . . I think I saw the head of a snake in that jar. . . " is better than, "It would be great to go to to some warm tropical island."

2. Isolate the highlight of the story that excites her. (You won't have to search for it. She will tell you. "Oh My God! Wow! That's amazing!" etc . . . and even "gross. . . a snake head?")

3. Associate that excitement to a real life idea for a date. "Oh that reminds me. There's a Vietnamese restaurant downtown. They have a jar of snake head wine in the window. I'm pretty sure it's just for show. . . blah, blah, blah."

Seems simple but there's a lot going on ^here. Creating emotions . . . bridging, association. . . and there are many ways to accomplish ^this as well. This is the difference between being a fun/exciting person vs. telling others that you are fun and exciting. Figure this out and I assure that you will often hear, "I want to go!" Before you have a chance to suggest it.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:09 pm 
Offline
Member of MPUA Forum

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 198
Location: London
Thanks for the reply Kasabi, I've thought about it for a while which has really made me get into my own system of interacting with people. Also I really enjoyed the added humour of breaking it down into chapters that really made me chuckle!
Quote:
Chapter 1. Have No Fear.

Parents have been telling their daughters to be aware of strangers since God told Eve to stay the fuck away from the serpent. This is "fear" is instilled into their souls. . . so unless she's a masochist with suicidal tendencies, she's not leaving her social ring of comfort unless this fear is somehow squashed. The good news is that this is easy and there are many ways to do it. You already wrote about chatting with a girl about your childhood, growing up in a certain neighborhood, etc. . . To make this better, try to get as specific as possible. The serpent didn't tell Eve, "Oh, I know people like that," He told Eve that he KNOWS GOD. Try to name specific names of people you might know. Specific shops, restaurants, schools, etc . . . And it's strange to think that people tend to believe that people with security and a job is more trustworthy than a person who does not have these things but I don't tell people what to believe. I just go with it. Often times, it's enough to tell people what you do and where. Whatever it is that you can think of, be as SPECIFIC as possible. Get in the habit of doing this and you'll begin to notice the transformation. . . it's a clear as a light bulb being flicked on.
This makes incredible sense, and I think putting a person at ease is the most important part of conversation now you've pointed this issue out, with rules/mindsets installed in children from parents from a very young age - these thoughts are unconscious habits that we see as a social norm for judging and assessing people as "normal." As you've pointed out I can see why specifying people, places, etc works because it says you know what I know and that equals safe.

From a personal point of view, I'm often not very specific about myself, mainly as I don't really enjoy talking about myself; I know myself already, why would I want to talk about me more? However this is clearly a method I need to work on. Well actually now I've just typed that, it's more of a nervous thing I've realised, I get nervous disclosing details about myself. Kasabi could you suggest anything to help me with that please?
Quote:
Chapter 2. Are You Excited Yet?

Too many guys make the mistake of thinking that in order to get her excited for YOU, you need to get her excited for YOU. And they also think that in order to get her sexually aroused, you need to get her sexually aroused. This is absolutely NOT TRUE. Let me explain:

As a musician, you should know that people often "transfer" their emotions from one thing to another. You jam with your buddies, everything clicks, then you guys head to a bar/cafe and everything is just awesome. The beer tastes better. Chicks look hotter. You guys are more social and in a better mood. In this example, you gained excitement from a jam session but then projected that excitement to people you met a bar; this transference of both good and bad emotions occur all the time. Those of us understand this reality can associate/link the source of others' positive emotions to us.

I probably wrote about this hundreds of times on this forum:

1. Chat about holidays/vacations/dream getaways. Again, specific is better than general. The time I "motorcycled through Vietnam and a family on the beach invited me to join their picnic and shared shots of some vodka type thing together. . . I think I saw the head of a snake in that jar. . . " is better than, "It would be great to go to to some warm tropical island."

2. Isolate the highlight of the story that excites her. (You won't have to search for it. She will tell you. "Oh My God! Wow! That's amazing!" etc . . . and even "gross. . . a snake head?")

3. Associate that excitement to a real life idea for a date. "Oh that reminds me. There's a Vietnamese restaurant downtown. They have a jar of snake head wine in the window. I'm pretty sure it's just for show. . . blah, blah, blah."

Seems simple but there's a lot going on ^here. Creating emotions . . . bridging, association. . . and there are many ways to accomplish ^this as well. This is the difference between being a fun/exciting person vs. telling others that you are fun and exciting. Figure this out and I assure that you will often hear, "I want to go!" Before you have a chance to suggest it.
It's funny you should say that actually as I've just been viewing some videos on youtube and thinking about good story telling.

I posted some videos of Ryan Gosling, a lot of chicks are obsessed with him so I thought he would be good to figure out why they love him so much. So I've done my own bit of analysis into the vid and figured that Gosling is just a really interesting guy, I've watched another couple of interviews with him on Letterman and Lenohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m44goj3hVZE; and he just has a really interesting descriptive story for everything. But what he manages to have is an answer for everything he's asked, what stands out is he makes the answer interesting by telling a story but also drags your emotions into it as well, so you're truly engaged in it. As well as having positive body language and great tone of voice, but I feel this really helps out. But please feel free to add anything you think I may have missed out on.

On another note that kind of story telling is obviously getting the good vibes out of myself, but I assume I would have to draw them out of girl at hand with a similar technique. The example you gave me sounded like a "my story to her" situation rather than me almost extracting the good vibes from her story and focusing on what makes her excited. Would you say there is a balance needed between extracting the good vibes or can you afford to focus on yourself or her?

Thanks.

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:08 pm 
Offline
Member of MPUA Forum

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 198
Location: London
So I thought I'd update because I almost fucked up hometown-L, and I still think it's a dying interaction right now. Basically I was out with 2 friends today and I bumped into her ex, so I thought this is a perfect way to reengage contact. So I jokingly around texted, "guess who I bumped into today" things from here were interesting as she obviously knew who I meant, but then I stupidly said "obviously I confessed everything to him." Now this was an insensitive joke too far and she was really worried, so I had to do a lot of explaining here and reassuring that I didn't tell him, and that the only reason I know him is because of school, and living in the same town - he's not part of my social circle if you like.

Fuck, it was hard work but I managed to in the end to regain her trust and she started investing details about her wanting to be friends with and even admitted to me that up until last month she actually wanted to get back together with him, but now they're trying to be friends. Sounds friendzone stuff that right? Indeed, so I tried to steer the conversation away from that with focusing the subject on her being strong and emotionally stable to be able to do that, but she clearly had a couple of comments to get off her chest as carried on going back on track, which is fine. She ended her part about him saying 'I'm not denying its hard but he's a ridiculously good guy, I don't want to not be friends with him x' so I felt the best response was to be honest of what I thought here, she probably feels vulnerable and needs reassurance so I went with 'Underselling yourself is becoming a habit(Callback comment)! What makes you think you're not an equally great person too? He'll be lucky to have you around as well x'
She signed it off saying 'Haha, :) you're sweet x.' So again with the conversation I tried to steer in the direction of not being on him, which was just a generic 'Haha thanks. So how's your week looking then?' Blatantly obvious I didn't want to talk about him, and she didn't reply (yet) after an hour of texting within returning texts 20 minutes of each other. If she replies fine, I'll reassess - if not I will assume this is near the end of the interaction unless someone can suggest somewhere to pick up on.

Analysis with Hometown-L
- Things are looking friend zone material, if our conversations are about her feelings towards him.
- I did managed to clear up the whole issue on how she see's how I stand with the ex (which in turn can take away the not knowing and the excitement for her).
- The main thing I need to achieve here is have a bigger emotional connection to something other than the ex. Then we can build a connection away from him and then it makes everything feel a lot better because we'll have a true connection. Problem is I don't know where to initiate that, I guess it's just throwing things out there and slowly narrowing it down. This will be my next step.

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:04 pm 
Offline
Post of the month winner!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:53 am
Posts: 3102
Quote:
From a personal point of view, I'm often not very specific about myself, mainly as I don't really enjoy talking about myself; I know myself already, why would I want to talk about me more? However this is clearly a method I need to work on. Well actually now I've just typed that, it's more of a nervous thing I've realised, I get nervous disclosing details about myself. Kasabi could you suggest anything to help me with that please?
Think about the way you judge and classify others. . . think about our politicians, your teachers, friends, celebrities, business associates, family etc . . . Which aspects of their speech and behavior do/did you most rely on to form an opinion? This can be a complicated topic so let's just stick with the topic on hand. Did you form a stronger opinion of "WHO THEY ARE" based on what they told you about themselves or did you form a stronger opinion of who they are based on observable behavior? If you think about this carefully, especially for the longer term, we always rely on observable behavior to judge others. Sure, a professor can tell you that he is 'smart, smart, smart," but sooner or later, you're going to want to see smart behavior. You're going to want to see proof of intelligence for you to classify this person as "smart".

We can accomplish ^this through speech. You don't need to make up an identity. You don't need to be alpha this or omega that. If you are an adventurous person, you don't tell people that you are an 'adventurous' person. . . you wouldn't need to. You'd have hundreds of stories that would show others who you are. Get in the habit of demonstrating yourself instead of telling. . . Those who 'tell' are usually liars, but above all, are they are super boring. . .

*By the way, I left out a detail. The reason I suggested you to tell 'specific' things about your life is not necessarily to show the girl more about you but more to create 'connections'; there are experiences you might share. People you might know. Towns/Cities you have both been to. Again. . . when you make a connection like this with a stranger, it's as if a light goes on in her head. . . "Oh! I know you!. . . ." - even if she's from another side of the World.

Quote:
On another note that kind of story telling is obviously getting the good vibes out of myself, but I assume I would have to draw them out of girl at hand with a similar technique. The example you gave me sounded like a "my story to her" situation rather than me almost extracting the good vibes from her story and focusing on what makes her excited. Would you say there is a balance needed between extracting the good vibes or can you afford to focus on yourself or her?
There are a lot of things going on with that example but I'd suggest you read it again. The #1 reason for the 1. holiday story. 2. isolating fun event. 3. bridging fun event with potential date ideas IS TO CREATE DATES. Read what happened in that example several times. Create your own. It makes girls ASK YOU OUT.
Quote:
Analysis with Hometown-L
- Things are looking friend zone material, if our conversations are about her feelings towards him.
- I did managed to clear up the whole issue on how she see's how I stand with the ex (which in turn can take away the not knowing and the excitement for her).
- The main thing I need to achieve here is have a bigger emotional connection to something other than the ex. Then we can build a connection away from him and then it makes everything feel a lot better because we'll have a true connection. Problem is I don't know where to initiate that, I guess it's just throwing things out there and slowly narrowing it down. This will be my next step.
"How do you feel". . . "How do I feel". . . "How does your boyfriend feel"? This is BULLSHIT. Where do I stand? Where does he stand? Where does she stand? This is BULLSHIT. You are "telling" and you are asking her to "tell". If you want to figure out 'where she stands', then go through the stories. . . figure out a fun event that will strike her fancy by going through a bunch of examples. So you talk about the park, museum, and a cafe. She goes, "Blah. . . " You just keep going . . . you chat about a band at a club and she goes, "Woh! Cool. . . " - Then you tell her, "Alright, let's hit it then." Then she goes, "AWESOME!" - Do you really, really need to hear her say, "This is how I feel about you."? You chat about 'feelings' as if they exist in a vacuum. How can she form any sort of feelings for you when all you do is ask her, "how do I feel, how do you feel, how does your boyfriend feel?" You keep going this way and I will tell you how she will feel about you. She will feel that you will make a great candidate for a psychiatrist's assistant. Stop your investigative research on where she stands and how she feels. Instead, CREATE emotions. Raise her emotions for you. . . and if you really need her to talk to you like a Hallmark Card, "I love you forever and ever and my love for you is undying blah, blah, blah." - STOP quizzing her. Stop bringing up these topics. Instead, raise her emotions and show her a fun time. She'll hit you up with this cheese soon enough.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:15 pm 
Offline
Member of MPUA Forum

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 198
Location: London
Quote:
Quote:
From a personal point of view, I'm often not very specific about myself, mainly as I don't really enjoy talking about myself; I know myself already, why would I want to talk about me more? However this is clearly a method I need to work on. Well actually now I've just typed that, it's more of a nervous thing I've realised, I get nervous disclosing details about myself. Kasabi could you suggest anything to help me with that please?
Think about the way you judge and classify others. . . think about our politicians, your teachers, friends, celebrities, business associates, family etc . . . Which aspects of their speech and behavior do/did you most rely on to form an opinion? This can be a complicated topic so let's just stick with the topic on hand. Did you form a stronger opinion of "WHO THEY ARE" based on what they told you about themselves or did you form a stronger opinion of who they are based on observable behavior? If you think about this carefully, especially for the longer term, we always rely on observable behavior to judge others. Sure, a professor can tell you that he is 'smart, smart, smart," but sooner or later, you're going to want to see smart behavior. You're going to want to see proof of intelligence for you to classify this person as "smart".

We can accomplish ^this through speech. You don't need to make up an identity. You don't need to be alpha this or omega that. If you are an adventurous person, you don't tell people that you are an 'adventurous' person. . . you wouldn't need to. You'd have hundreds of stories that would show others who you are. Get in the habit of demonstrating yourself instead of telling. . . Those who 'tell' are usually liars, but above all, are they are super boring. . .

*By the way, I left out a detail. The reason I suggested you to tell 'specific' things about your life is not necessarily to show the girl more about you but more to create 'connections'; there are experiences you might share. People you might know. Towns/Cities you have both been to. Again. . . when you make a connection like this with a stranger, it's as if a light goes on in her head. . . "Oh! I know you!. . . ." - even if she's from another side of the World.

Quote:
On another note that kind of story telling is obviously getting the good vibes out of myself, but I assume I would have to draw them out of girl at hand with a similar technique. The example you gave me sounded like a "my story to her" situation rather than me almost extracting the good vibes from her story and focusing on what makes her excited. Would you say there is a balance needed between extracting the good vibes or can you afford to focus on yourself or her?
There are a lot of things going on with that example but I'd suggest you read it again. The #1 reason for the 1. holiday story. 2. isolating fun event. 3. bridging fun event with potential date ideas IS TO CREATE DATES. Read what happened in that example several times. Create your own. It makes girls ASK YOU OUT.
Quote:
Analysis with Hometown-L
- Things are looking friend zone material, if our conversations are about her feelings towards him.
- I did managed to clear up the whole issue on how she see's how I stand with the ex (which in turn can take away the not knowing and the excitement for her).
- The main thing I need to achieve here is have a bigger emotional connection to something other than the ex. Then we can build a connection away from him and then it makes everything feel a lot better because we'll have a true connection. Problem is I don't know where to initiate that, I guess it's just throwing things out there and slowly narrowing it down. This will be my next step.
"How do you feel". . . "How do I feel". . . "How does your boyfriend feel"? This is BULLSHIT. Where do I stand? Where does he stand? Where does she stand? This is BULLSHIT. You are "telling" and you are asking her to "tell". If you want to figure out 'where she stands', then go through the stories. . . figure out a fun event that will strike her fancy by going through a bunch of examples. So you talk about the park, museum, and a cafe. She goes, "Blah. . . " You just keep going . . . you chat about a band at a club and she goes, "Woh! Cool. . . " - Then you tell her, "Alright, let's hit it then." Then she goes, "AWESOME!" - Do you really, really need to hear her say, "This is how I feel about you."? You chat about 'feelings' as if they exist in a vacuum. How can she form any sort of feelings for you when all you do is ask her, "how do I feel, how do you feel, how does your boyfriend feel?" You keep going this way and I will tell you how she will feel about you. She will feel that you will make a great candidate for a psychiatrist's assistant. Stop your investigative research on where she stands and how she feels. Instead, CREATE emotions. Raise her emotions for you. . . and if you really need her to talk to you like a Hallmark Card, "I love you forever and ever and my love for you is undying blah, blah, blah." - STOP quizzing her. Stop bringing up these topics. Instead, raise her emotions and show her a fun time. She'll hit you up with this cheese soon enough.
Thank you Kasabi you gave me the exact reply I needed, and your posts always humble me which is another reason I enjoy your input. Ok so you have completely called me out on my lack of initiation of getting things going and exciting with the girls I've been meeting, which is something I'm now conscious of where I'm going wrong. I will draw up some short term goals for the next few interactions I make.

On another note, and using your examples of demonstration and of her thinking I'll be a great psychologist assistant (if I carry on this way), that's exactly what I want to be this time next year! So I guess I am demonstrating in a way, what I want to be, but I genuinely see how this cannot raise her excitement and attraction to me, after all I don't want the whole world to be my patients. So here's a question for you can you recommend a way for me to, turn down this part of me that seeks logic in emotions, because I reckon I do this more often than I'm aware of - trying to figure people out, it's not particularly healthy.

Also on a side note, I forgot to mention she's a while away from me right now, probably around a 3hr train journey, so I would really have to raise excitement for her to come and see me. How would you suggest I proceed with this in mind?

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:55 pm 
Offline
Post of the month winner!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:53 am
Posts: 3102
Quote:
On another note, and using your examples of demonstration and of her thinking I'll be a great psychologist assistant (if I carry on this way), that's exactly what I want to be this time next year! So I guess I am demonstrating in a way, what I want to be, but I genuinely see how this cannot raise her excitement and attraction to me, after all I don't want the whole world to be my patients. So here's a question for you can you recommend a way for me to, turn down this part of me that seeks logic in emotions, because I reckon I do this more often than I'm aware of - trying to figure people out, it's not particularly healthy.

Also on a side note, I forgot to mention she's a while away from me right now, probably around a 3hr train journey, so I would really have to raise excitement for her to come and see me. How would you suggest I proceed with this in mind?
*As a note: even shrinks get better results through conversation rather than quizzing their clients.

Look, what you're doing is no different than what 99% of guys do. We are logical beings. We want answers. . . and if there are problems, we want to solve them. We are not satisfied with the "light bulb does not work". We want to know if it's the bulb, the breaker, wiring, switch, etc. . . and we want answers. We have no patience to 'figure shit out'. If a girl says she's feeling blue we ask, "why? what? who? how?" Meanwhile, girls simply do this crap to get a sympathy massage, even if she has no problems at all!

You want a green light. You want a girl to say to you, "Oh yes. . . I do like you a lot and I think of you as a sexual partner. Now, how do you feel about me?" Are you really expecting females to respond this way?

Excite them, take them out on dates, and have fun. And when they pounce you for a kiss I think you will discover that this is a lot better than a girl sitting from a distance telling you, "I like you, you like me?"

The only difference between a 10 minute ride and a 10 hour ride is logistics.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:42 pm 
Offline
Member of MPUA Forum

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 198
Location: London
So I'm going through a bit of a stressful time in my life because I have exams coming up for my course. 5 over the next 6 weeks. I'm working full time right now, studying, keeping fit with a healthy lifestyle and it's hard work, because my days look like this:

Monday, wednesday and friday: 8.30-4.30 work with an hour commute, cook my meals for the night and next day. 7.30-8.30 study then gym. in bed for 10.30-11 but normally after 11.
Tuesday & Thursday: 8.30-4.30 work, cook meals, 8-10 study aim for bed at 10.30
Weekends i just try and recover and get a good 6 hours studying in if possible

So to be honest I really don't have any time to be doing any pick up right now, although Traveller informed me about a free RSD tour that's in London on the 2nd May which I have my ticket for, so that's the closest thing I'll be doing right now. But from mid June I should be free again.

However this schedule I'm doing is getting me really burned out, to the point I'm getting stress headaches. I'm going to start doing meditation for 10-20 minutes before going to bed to kind of turn down the hypothetical noise level of thoughts in my head, just so I can completely get some good rest.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ok so I asked DB a question in his journal/blog and he wrote this:
Quote:
Believe it or not, there are girls that like that sort of thing. When you drop the mentality of doing "what works on this girl" and adopt the mentality of "This is who I am, lets see if she's compatible with that" you will be a lot more content with your life (not to mention that you are treating the girls you interact with as humans and with dignity and respect - which further makes you feel better - which makes them feel better - and it becomes a nice self-fulfilling interaction of happiness and mutual enjoyment).
This personally really struck a chord with me, I think I've been personally doing the "what works on this girl" in a way of finding out what she wants and almost adapting myself to fit her beliefs. Incredibly unhealthy to live this way, and in fact this way I would imagine I would build more rapport in a friendship kind of way than build any attraction with them. Something I need to do is really sit down and work out the type of girls I want to attract, build my own personal foundations and be strong and resilient in my own wants and needs. But to reiterate studying is number one priority right now.

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:52 am 
Offline
MPUA Forum Zealot

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:32 am
Posts: 415
Quote:

This personally really struck a chord with me, I think I've been personally doing the "what works on this girl" in a way of finding out what she wants and almost adapting myself to fit her beliefs. Incredibly unhealthy to live this way, and in fact this way I would imagine I would build more rapport in a friendship kind of way than build any attraction with them. Something I need to do is really sit down and work out the type of girls I want to attract, build my own personal foundations and be strong and resilient in my own wants and needs. But to reiterate studying is number one priority right now.
I think you are on the right track. Trying to adapt yourself to the girl, in my opinion, places one in the position of "working" for her approval. I think this can have a lot of negative impact on the way we view ourselves. Its the ultimate form of neediness and it takes a toll on your self-worth to constantly think you have to adapt or change who you are to get a girl.

Why not just be ourself and find someone who is compatible? When a guy combines this with genuinely trying to "fix" the parts of himself that might not be so great, whether that be professional development or dealing with insecurities and anxieties and fears or getting in shape or whatever, this creates the ultimate place of strength and it makes you much more secure and happy.

You are essentially saying "This is who I am. These are my true needs and desires. These are my flaws. I admit them and I am not ashamed to do so. This is how I am improving them. If that isn't what works for you, then we are both better off moving along."

That is having strength and power, not pretending you have no flaws and that you don't care about how any girl feels about you or that you don't have any needs in your interactions.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 1:43 pm 
Offline
Member of MPUA Forum

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 198
Location: London
Self analysis and what do I want? Part 1

This is some self reflection time knowing what I want, realising it, and putting the action in place to get it. Or in terms of action putting it as: thinking, doing then "being." Also my knowledge of psychology should help me make quick progress, well quicker at least, I'm going to set up a semantic + episodic knowledge gaining list. This will be put together with advice from Daniel Balboa and Kasabi and how they have contributed to my journal, I really appreciate the time you've taken out your lives to help me out, it is genuine kindness and I really am thankful.

Why am I bad?

Not an MJ reference, but more of a general why am I bad at attracting girls and gaining dates? Ok I got this from Todd of RSD when I went to the free tour on Thursday, but he said he was bad because he'd always been academically and athletically successful, so he wasn't use to failure. This I could relate to really quite well, I'm much of the same mould, I've never failed at much, so therefore I am intrinsically scared of failure and rejection ; essentially trying to pick up girls is probably 9/10s failure and rejection, so I actively avoid this even when I approach now, I go for what's safe what won't get me rejected and do nothing gutsy, basically I'm needy, and I need them to like me.

What do I want?

Well I've never really thought about this too much, which is the wrong way I thought it would come naturally over time. DB posted this question and I've taken it out of one of his messages (and context a little bit)
Quote:
Do I really want to have a lot of casual sex or do I just want a stable relationship?
So I look at this question in two ways actually, and it has a two part answer as well. In the long term yes I want a stable relationship but right now I want a series of short term things, call it fuck buddies or whatever, essentially what I want is a series of short term relationships with a few cool girls who I will be able to have fun with, and enjoy their company. On the RSD talk I went to Todd, said a brilliant phrase on behalf of another instructor there at RSD, apparently to deal with his short term relationships: "I enjoy what we have right now and I don't want it to stop or change how it is right now, however you'll be the first to know if I want to make this serious and you'll also be the first to know if I don't think it will work out." <- That is actually how I see myself wanting to act, but obviously it's hard to hypothesise about feelings, but I think that's the closest to how I will feel about the kind of girls I want to see.

That leads me onto my next question; what is the kind of girl that I want to see?
This is a huge question but I think if I break down a little into:

What do I find attractive, well Daniel identified this for me and I can't say I disagree.
Quote:
You seem to find yourself attracted to girls that come across as mature, stable, and emotionally open people - who happen to be in good relationships. I would guess that means that you are looking for mature, stable, emotionally open people who are capable of being in good relationships.
What do I value in a girl?
Well this is essentially the same question as above but I'll go into more detail. I really enjoy traits of people that are always go that extra mile, to really get the job done well so to speak, attention to detail; I guess this is a reflection in myself because I hate things that are half done.

Mindful - I hate rash decisions, I like it when people carefully consider their next move whatever it is, for instance it has this sort of bigger part of a plan attached to it. It's been well thought out and has structure; not that I hate knee-jerk decisions, hell I make those a lot, but I think this trait should outweigh the reactive things.

Openness - People that are up for doing new things, that aren't scared of throwing themselves into the unknown whether that be travelling, learning something, experiencing something new. Knowledge + experience is wisdom. And the other side of it to be open to criticism and hear out someone else's perspective, and be able to admit they're wrong sometimes.

How do I express that?

Daniel also gave me some great advice:
Quote:
Ask the "hard" questions about where she is in her life, if she's single and looking, what she's looking for, what kind of relationship she is capable of having at this point in her life. Then, be as open and authentic about how you feel about those things in yourself, even if they are at odds.

So this is part 1 for me, and I'll update on how I can go about achieving and committing to my goals in my part 2 post

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 1:44 pm 
Offline
PUA Forum Leader

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:22 am
Posts: 1200
Location: London
Quote:
Why am I bad?

Not an MJ reference, but more of a general why am I bad at attracting girls and gaining dates? Ok I got this from Todd of RSD when I went to the free tour on Thursday, but he said he was bad because he'd always been academically and athletically successful, so he wasn't use to failure. This I could relate to really quite well, I'm much of the same mould, I've never failed at much, so therefore I am intrinsically scared of failure and rejection ; essentially trying to pick up girls is probably 9/10s failure and rejection, so I actively avoid this even when I approach now, I go for what's safe what won't get me rejected and do nothing gutsy, basically I'm needy, and I need them to like me.
Just to expand on this, mainly because I can relate to this as well. I, too, have never failed at much, if at anything really, and if I did fail, it was a rarity and as such would hurt me deeply. However the game has really put this to the test for me, and I think for a lot of guys actually, since a lot of guys who get into this are much the same mould.

Since the game puts so much strain on guys like us, so much so in fact that we would rather not approach in fear of getting rejected (a completely irrational thought on one hand, however also an understandable one) than approach and have a possibly good or even great interaction, we must find ways to maybe not overcome this fear, but side-track it. For example focusing your mind on a task or an achievement for the night without even thinking about having the interaction go well can work for some guys. This is what Tyler would refer to as the process, you put your mind on the process instead of the result. The process can be anything really; it can be that your approach is already a win. So you approach and you win, since that was your goal. Your process could also be to focus on a single area that you want to practice on, lets say push-pull or teasing. One that works for me is to go in with the assumption that I will get rejected. It frees a load off of you, since you're now going in for the sake of going in rather than for an outcome. You believe, you know you will get rejected. Maybe you will maybe you won't, but there's nothing else to do since rejection is happening and you're accepting it. "Let's get rejected" is the magic phrase.

This can even allow you to play it "unsafe" if you will. This can allow you to make yourself look like a complete goof. Let's say you see a 6-set and you say "Let's get rejected" or "I want to practice my sexual tension" you can go in with your mind on something else. You're going in with a freedom of outcome, and in the second one you're even going in with a goal, motivating you. But the idea of the interaction going well or not is not really in your head. It'll be there, since in the field circumstances and emotions are heightened, but if you set this up like a "workout" you can go out with a specific goal in mind for that night, and if you do feel anxious, just plan to get rejected, accept it, have fun with it. "Let's get rejected". Have fun with it.

Just thought I'd chip in, since this struck a chord with me.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:04 pm 
Offline
Post of the month winner!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:53 am
Posts: 3102
Analysis is usually a good thing but be careful trying to find a reason for everything. "Not Failing" ≠ "Success". What you have described is not a habit for success but rather a habit of failure avoidance. Successful people rarely make decisions based on success rate alone. They'll have to gauge many other factors. For instance, a holding company must decide between entering two different industries. Statistics will show that one industry will have greater chance of failure. . . but what are the other factors? Cost of doing business, overhead, research, schedule of reward, hedging of risk with other business within the company, etc . . .

Which factors have you considered that led you to the decision to "not approach"?

Quote:
Self analysis and what do I want? Part 1

Why am I bad?

Not an MJ reference, but more of a general why am I bad at attracting girls and gaining dates? Ok I got this from Todd of RSD when I went to the free tour on Thursday, but he said he was bad because he'd always been academically and athletically successful, so he wasn't use to failure. This I could relate to really quite well, I'm much of the same mould, I've never failed at much, so therefore I am intrinsically scared of failure and rejection ; essentially trying to pick up girls is probably 9/10s failure and rejection, so I actively avoid this even when I approach now, I go for what's safe what won't get me rejected and do nothing gutsy, basically I'm needy, and I need them to like me.
^The problem with beginning an analytical process with the 'theory' already made up is that you are going to naturally pull 'reasons' out of the sky to support your theory. Your figure for the 9/10 failure rate is surprising to me. Why are you even here? Why have you begun your journal? Isn't the idea to increase your success rate? You wrote that figure as if it's a stagnant % that cannot be influenced.

Here's why you do not approach:

1. You don't have a habit for approaching.
2. There is no 2.

We always fear things that are not natural to us. . . and the only reason why approaching seems unnatural to you is because you don't have a habit for it. You mention that you are into sports . . .and achieved some level of success. If so, then you know exactly what I am suggesting here. If I toss you into a varsity playoff basketball game and you have never played organized ball, you are going to freak out. On the other hand, if you've been playing the whole season, you're a starter, and you've been putting a lot of work in, yeah, you'll get butterflies but you're psyched to get it on. That's the difference. Take it easy with self analysis and get back to the drawing board. Open - routine - close. Simple. Do it. It's a choice.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:21 pm 
Offline
Member of MPUA Forum

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 198
Location: London
Quote:
Analysis is usually a good thing but be careful trying to find a reason for everything. "Not Failing" ≠ "Success". What you have described is not a habit for success but rather a habit of failure avoidance. Successful people rarely make decisions based on success rate alone. They'll have to gauge many other factors. For instance, a holding company must decide between entering two different industries. Statistics will show that one industry will have greater chance of failure. . . but what are the other factors? Cost of doing business, overhead, research, schedule of reward, hedging of risk with other business within the company, etc . . .

Which factors have you considered that led you to the decision to "not approach"?
As far I can tell it's an ego thing, a defensive mechanism as you described it Kasabi a habit for failure of avoidance; I basically avoid getting my ego damaged by a girls lack of interest in my conversation or myself as a potential suitor. I have not weighed up the long term things I want from this journal or "pick up" lifestyle, so I'm essentially approaching without any goals so I believe I'm coming across as indecisive and this is confusing for the girl at hand.
Quote:
The problem with beginning an analytical process with the 'theory' already made up is that you are going to naturally pull 'reasons' out of the sky to support your theory. Your figure for the 9/10 failure rate is surprising to me. Why are you even here? Why have you begun your journal? Isn't the idea to increase your success rate? You wrote that figure as if it's a stagnant % that cannot be influenced.

Here's why you do not approach:

1. You don't have a habit for approaching.
2. There is no 2.

We always fear things that are not natural to us. . . and the only reason why approaching seems unnatural to you is because you don't have a habit for it. You mention that you are into sports . . .and achieved some level of success. If so, then you know exactly what I am suggesting here. If I toss you into a varsity playoff basketball game and you have never played organized ball, you are going to freak out. On the other hand, if you've been playing the whole season, you're a starter, and you've been putting a lot of work in, yeah, you'll get butterflies but you're psyched to get it on. That's the difference. Take it easy with self analysis and get back to the drawing board. Open - routine - close. Simple. Do it. It's a choice.
Well to be honest this "part 1" I did was to draw up realizations about my current state, and then my "part 2" was to find an action plan to rectify it and commit to an end goal, whatever that goal is I draw up. It could be as simple as approach 20 girls per month or lay 20 girls per month; I haven't quite decided yet, but the harder the better.

The 9/10 failure rate I drew up came from my own experience. Maybe I was being overdramatic, but I don't remember being accepted or finding many good connections from my current approaches.

But thank you for the input, the simple start with open - routine - close is good a place to start; and it's a good recommendation. Since I have your attention at the moment, what else would you suggest for drawing up goals, and incorporating a habit of getting used to approaching?

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:08 pm 
Offline
Post of the month winner!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:53 am
Posts: 3102
Quote:
Since I have your attention at the moment, what else would you suggest for drawing up goals, and incorporating a habit of getting used to approaching?
Your planning and strategizing is now getting in your way. You already know what needs to be done. Tape up the plan to your wall and transition to executable tasks. Grab a calendar. Incorporate everything into a calendar and follow it.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 183 posts ] 

All times are UTC


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Can we be honest?

We want your email address. Let me send you the best seduction techniques ever devised... because they are really good.
close-link