Right as you can see from my previous posts this weekend was going to a big weekend in the field, and it was.

Approach 1

Right, so the premise of this weekend is that I was visiting a friend in another city. So I went to the train station and I noticed a HB, initially I hesitated and we sat in silence. However, I tried to recover the situation by getting up to check the time on the platform (I knew the time I just wanted to use the time as a reason to talk to her).

So as I walk back the conversation went as follows:

Me: Are you getting the next train to x?
HB: Yeh
Me: Oh, where are you going?
HB: Just the first stop. (She was clearly in a bad mood, not because of me just generally?)
Me: Oh you don't sound very happy.
HB: No, I am just picking someone up.
Me: Oh right well I hope they are paying for your tickets.
HB:Yeh Right
Me:.....I am x btw
HB: I am x
Me: Sound happier
HB: No (Sort of laughy tone)

She didn't me talking to her but at the same time I could tell she wasn't in a great mood and I was forcing the conversation so I just left it there and put my ipod back in.



Approach 2

So after consuming an unhealthy amount of alcohol we went to a club. Me and my friends were on the dance floor first pumping. I want to say in a ironic way but that makes us sound like bigger assh*les, either way we were just having fun. So some girl comes up to me:

HB: Don't do that
Me: Oh come on you love it really, just a little bit.
I put my arm round her.
HB: (The rest of this conversation is a bit of a blur but I remember it ending well and she was laughing, no close but I think I recovered from dancing like an idiot)


Approach 3

Me: What is your t-shirt for? [The HB was wearing some kind of charity T-shirt}
Her: It is for blah blah
Me: Oh that's a really good cause....

I ran out of steam at this point and couldn't think of much to say, it was on the dancefloor so hard to keep a conversation going.


Approach 4

So I noticed this girl making strong eye contact with me and she began moving towards me and I moved to meet her. But then some guy swooped in and began talking to her. He was a friend of a friend so I didnt want to be a d*ck about it. He didn't close but the moment was ruined.


What I learnt and how to progress?

Initial approaches are not too difficult and most people are willing to at least have a brief conversation.

Alcohol kills my AA but has negative impacts on other areas of my game.

Approach 1 taught me to be prepared for grumpy people. But at the same time I have in no way taken it personally.

Approach 4 taught me I need to be more instinctive and certain in my approaching. My delay allowed someone else to talk to her.

I NEED to learn how to develop from just conversations to closes or just methods to keep a conversation going. Currently I am looking for the perfect things to say which I know doesn't exist and I need to train myself to be able to say the first thing that comes into my head, even if I think it is stupid.

Any thoughts, tips, comments or constructive criticisms are welcome.

Hey Buddy,
Cool to see someone of my level on this forum writing a journal too. I noticed you wrote in your last post you want to learn to keep conversation going so here are some tips that have worked for me.

Noun game:
When someone says a noun think of something to say about it or around it. E.g.

HB: I am getting off at next stop
You: Which one is that?
HB: Stop X (noun alert)
You: Ok X. I heard its (some made up description). Is it work visiting as I might have time on the way back.

In the last line there is use of a comment and then you are following it with a very open question so she can talk about anything at all that is worth doing or visiting at that stop. (Obviously this is a very un situational example but I hope this helps some what).

If its the begining of the conversation its also nice to give her a chance to talk about something non personal like the next stop as she can talk for ever while feeling as though she is giving up nothing person. In reality she will say something like

HB: Oh yeh its really cool, I love this bookstop in the city centre, this church blah blah blah. (Massive noun alert).

In clubs; concentrate (or don't) on bullshit conversation. Most of the time she cannot hear you so the content is not that important. Spin her around, put her hands around your shoulder. Move in for the close. I am not good at night game but have seen a few good PUA work their magic.

Hope that helps

LA.

Thanks LA,

I really appreciate your help. I agree with your noun game theory, and I will try it in the future. It was a bit difficult with my first Approach as she was clearly not in a great mood to speak, not using that as an excuse but as I am in the very early ages of learning I couldn't really deal with it.

Also think you are spot on with club game. To progress I am going to try to limit my drinking to say 6 drinks so I will be sociably drunk and have enough confidence to chat sh*t to a stranger, but not a complete mess. Club game seems very much about about physical presence and contact.

Thanks again.

If anyone reading has any tips on gym game, particularly with older women I would be really interested to hear your advice. For some reason I think approaching an older women will be a lot more riskier plus potentially more embarrassing.

Hello all,

Sorry for the lack of updates, I hope you are still following. Progress has been slow due to lack of opportunity which, if you read my own post, is a flaw of my strategy (I am not going out JUST to sarge). Social events have been thin on the ground and I have not made any real approaches.

However I have made a distinct effort to speak most people I come into contact with e.g. barmaids and I have been trying to get to know some of my friends/acquaintances that I do not know so well.

I have also done some more research, in particular I have been watching Adam Lyon's videos on youtube. I know most of you have probably heard of/watched his stuff but if you haven't it is well worth a watch. He has plently of free content on youtube.

Should be going to a club on thursday night so hopefully I will have some progress to report.

So angry about the events last night. Basically my friends ending up being massive let downs and we had to go home early. I hate people who cannot handle their drink.

All be it my time was limited I opened a set at the bar. I cannot remember the ins and outs but I remember her asking for a drink and I said "I never by girls drinks they won't respect you". She seemed taken back a bit and our conversation continued about the drinks etc. I did see her on the way on and we spoke very briefly but I should have acted, at the time I wanted her to come with me but that didn't/wasn't going to happen. Lesson learnt, I can't be so needy as to think women will or should follow me.

Dance floor game was pathetic. I was not confident at all in what I was trying to do so it was never going to work. I much prefer trying to talk to girls but dance floor game is something I want to work on. What I need to do; be more confident and decisive in my actions.

Overall a shocking night out

Hello all,

Sorry it has been a long time but frankly I have not made any progress worth reporting.

I was thinking of excuses i.e. I have been busy blah blah but frankly when I have had opportunities I have not been committed and I have felt a lot more AA than previously.

One thing I have noticed is that with a certain group of friends I have alot of AA to the point were I just won't approach. I think this is because the culture within the group is one of making fun of another's failings, or "banter". I have read a lot in these forums that people should cut these types of people out of their lives but frankly they are good friends in different ways. But I do intend to branch out a bit more.

There is a bar maid in a pub I have started going to that I intend to number close this week, I will let you know what happens.

As always any advise would be much appreciated.

Ok, so made a couple more approaches since I last wrote but I seem to be getting to the same sticking points. The approach goes OK, conversation regarding something situational goes OK but I cannot change the conversation into anything more personal to the girl or meaningful in anyway.

I wouldn't say I am entirely comfortable with approaching yet and the few I do approach are vastly outweighed by those that I don't, however it is getting slightly easier.

Slightly off topic, girl on my fb had a status that was to paraphrase, "wtf, a stranger asked for my phone number". Made me laugh looking from the inside out, fair play I think she gave him the number, good luck whoever you are hahahaha

Hey dude just been reading your posts, i think youve got the right headset and could do really well. I have a friend who has got a lot of girls as friends and is in the friend zone heavily. But he is very natural at chatting with girls and they like spending time with him, it was at the beggining that he didnt show enough intent and so they dont see him in that way. I think it sounds similar for you, your clearly a good talker and listener but you dont build enough intent or hold your frame enough as your shy.
About your friends, i wouldnt leave them, if anything go approach infront of them! Seriously, my friends back home are like this, they stand watch and if you get rejected banter with you after (chodes). But their still good mates and wouldnt ditch me or genuinely think im a loser as im trying to get laid, also it will help massively with confidence. Whilst it will be horrible at the begining, youll soon care less and become more confident.
Also this brings me onto going out specifically for sarging, i think you should do it. At the beginning its hard to make yourself go out specifically to sarge! It will improve you a lot quicker than at the moment. You want to power through the sets and force yourself even if the first few times you hate it. Youll soon enjoy it and then opening in the day will be more of your choice and be much easier. Plus it will help you build up 'momentum' and get you over the approach anxiety. At the beggining the hardest bit is to power through AA or you may lose the drive to game. Spending ages spanning out AA won't be good.
Hope some of my advice was useful, keep it up man youll be sick!
Zone

You should start reading 60 years of challenge.

Also, I once saw a video where the guy said:
I had this student who came to me and he was proud that he opend 20 sets a day for 2 weeks, and he was sorta bragging about it.
The thing here is: He didn't open 280 sets, he annoyed 280+ girls in the past 2 weeks.
You dont want to be an opener, you want to be a closer!



And this.
Good luck

Zone,

Thanks for the advice I appreciate people's comments as it helps motivate me.

Yeh I think you are exactly right, when I made my friends I didn't show enough intent to be anything more than friends. With some of my friends just being friends is all I want and in the others I think my desire to get is more curiosity rather than a real attraction. Every one has thought of "what ifs...." with their hot friends.

Yeh I can see where you are coming from regarding friends, it's just taking the initial leap of faith and as you can probably tell my confidence is fragile enough regarding women. I do have some friends who wouldn't say anything about any failures so I am trying to build my game around them to a point where I can do it no matter who is watching.

I am coming round to the fact that to get really good I will have to go out just to sarge. I am considering it but it does sort of conflict with what I want to get out of learning pick up. I don't really want picking up women to become a hobby, I don't want to think I have a spare afternoon I know I will go pick up girls. What I want is to be able to approach girls in certain situations and stop falling immediately into the friend zone. I also thing some situations demand being with someone, e.g. talking to bar maids would seem pretty odd if you just entered a bar on your own. Well that's my opinion anyway. But regardless of that I think there may come a point where I will have to do it to improve.

Thanks for your help I welcome any more advice.

Mantis,

Again many thanks for taking the time to post.

I googled 60 years of challenge, the result was a blog, is this what you were referring to or is it some other publication?

I agree I definitely want to be a closer not an opener, I wouldn't say I have annoyed any of the girls I have approached and I have been polite to all of them so if they are annoyed then that's their problem not mine.

I will watch the video later and let you know what I thought.

Thanks for your help.

Again, I apologise for my lack of activity on here but if you have read from the beginning you will know my approach to this is going to slow. Right that is the last time I explain that!

Kiss Close

So I went out last night in a new area with a group of friends. Really good night and opened a few sets with a wingman, nothing really progressed in any of the sets and I cannot really analyse what happened as my memory is rather foggy, something to do with jaegermeister.

So I was walking around the dance floor looking for my friends I noticed a girl giving me really strong eye contact dancing with another group of girls. I put my hands inviting her to dance with me and she took my hands, next thing I know we are making out. I said to her can we go back to yours, and I seem to remember her being up for it but I think her friends persuaded her not to. Again I am foggy on the particulars but the end result was no lay.

Positives and Negatives

Positives are that it is a confidence boost and progress. A few months ago it is exactly the kind of chance I would not have taken, I have often thought girls have been giving me IOI's and I have either hesitated or not acted on it.

Negatives are that obviously I didn't get the lay. I think I may been a bit too keen with "lets go back to yours" but I hadn't even spoken to the girl and we were making out. Next time I will try and get a conversation going, I think most girls will make out with a guy they haven't even spoken to but taking him home is different. Which leads me to next point, I know this very much falls into the category of dance floor game and that is what disappoints me. I sort of haven't learnt anything as I didn't even need to talk to the girl to get a kiss close. I am happy but it would have felt like more of a conquest and more of a progression if it was the result of conversation.

Once again please comment, I appreciate all your help.

Hello anyone who still reads this thread.

I would really appreciate some advice on getting a number close or a link to a thread that has such advice. I have tried to find advice myself but as you probably know the search function isn't the greatest and admittedly I am probably using it wrong.

Thanks in advance.

Hobbit,

Hello, I do agree with you to some extent. My progress has been slow and I do get demotivated, but I have had to concentrate on my career last few weeks, I have other priorities. But I was actually about to post a field report which shows progressed. No I am not getting lays but I have progressed, albeit slowly but I am fairly happy and I guess that's what counts, not notches on bedposts, although a few more wouldn't hurt.

Field Report

Right so went out with friends a few days ago to celebrate the end to a tough few weeks. Needless to say drinks were flowing. I went out with a large group but actually new only a couple of people I was social with both guys and girls and got into a really good frame of mind before going to the club.

So at the club, I have to admit I was very drunk but in quite a coherent and together way. So I begin talking to a girl at the bar, I can't remember how I opened, but I got her name and even established good kino, I was playing cocky funny and she seemed genuinely into me. However, she said she needed to find her friends, and I didn't really know what to do other than let her go. I stuck my cheek out to invite a kiss on the cheek and she played along. But I didn't see her again.

I opened another girl with a Slywalker opener "Don't you hate it when random people talk to you" and then I added "but then you would never meet amazing people like me". Blah blah, less connection than the first girl. I did very half heartedly go for the kiss but I sort of pulled out before I was fully committed as I felt she was not into it.

Anyway, it may not sound like much but there was progress. My mindset is slowly changing and even if my PUA skills are not improving my social skills are. Still need to develop something to get a close but I think they may come once my mid game is more solid. But I have gained confidence from these experiences and I look forward to further practice next weekend.

Hobbit,

I hope you don't see this as confrontational at all, I appreciate all comments even if I disagree with them. I wasn't trying to suggest you were a notches on the bedpost kind of guy either I meant it as a indication of progress.

I agree with your point on drunk approaches, it is a crutch I need to get rid of but previously I would just get drunk and not approach anyway, probably use it as an excuse. "Why didn't you pull last night?" "Oh I was so drunk". It's not a good look and I don't want to be that guy, so I am drinking to get into a social mood.

Also, I am under no delusion, I do not expect to progress as fast as someone who practices every day. And I am not going to bitch and complain about lack of progress because I know I am not fully committing, or what PUAs perceive as full commitment. But I don't want to go just talk to girls, even if it was successful that doesn't sound like my idea of a good time. Perhaps I am in the wrong place as I don't particularly want to be a PUA, I would rather just develop my social skills and be someone that more people want around. Obviously, I want sex and a potentially a girlfriend but I believe I can get there using my method (or lack of method).

I hope you have further comments as it is good to have a discussion.

Hobbit,

I understand where you are coming from. Perhaps you may consider my method more gainful if you knew a bit more about me.

I understand a lot of people come to this site to reinvent themselves. I do not want that, I am what people on this site would call an AFC but I am not at the bottom end of the spectrum. I have had girlfriends, I have had regular sex life, I do have a large group of friends and I do have opportunities to socialise with people. This may seem arrogant but I am aware I am very lucky to have these things. What I am trying to say is that I am not learning from absolute zero. I do already have some social skills, at least enough to make friends.

But still I would like to have more success with women, and I am on a particularly long dry spell. What I have identified is main problem is confidence with women I don't know, I believe I can carry myself through the middle part of set but I also struggle closing. Therefore, it is opening and closing that are really my issues.

Now I believe I currently have a lifestyle where I can become a natural or just better at this. Particularly now I have got over a career hurdle I will be going out to bars/clubs at the weekends and spending more time with my friends. So don't worry I have plenty of opportunities to interact.

I only desire to become "natural" as I believe it will suit me and the type of girls I wish to attract. And I mean "natural" in the sense of another school of PUA not in fact truly natural, perhaps I would be better of saying cocky funny, which in reality is on the appearance of being natural.

That being said I appreciate your view, after all repetition is the father of learning (I know Nas said it, probably someone before him too). If you have any other advice I am all ears.