This is my first post so be kind!
I approached a 3 set at a club on the weekend. This was my first time using game techniques in the field. I negged the HB target, "your dress is really nice, *pause* my mum has the same one" lame, but that won some attention. Then I went on to win the AMOG through suck up techniques and also the ugly friend (she wasn't that ugly but standing next to the goddess that was HB welll...) The problem was that I wasn't sure how much to push HB away and how much to draw her in and I was unsure at what stage she deserved some attention? I think if we look at this in terms of cat and string theory I was holding the string too high for too long. After negging and ignoring what is a good way to start to open the HB?

This is where sh1t gets funny.........

I was following game rule in my head but I wasn't reading the situation very well with my heart; I had over sarged the obstacle. She was into me, which in retrospect I could have used to my advantage (not too sure how?). I knew the next step was to isolate HB* so I asked if She wanted to come with me, I wanted to show her something (Was going to isolate, DHV) I think my problem was I hadn't demonstrated enough higher value as it was to her. I had entertained the group, won the AMOG and unfortunately won the obstacle but I had pushed her away too much, hadn't made a connection with her personally (Apart from the neg). So when I offered her an escape in order to isolate her answer was , "what do you want to show me (GOOD ANSWERS FOR THIS ANYONE??) then ultimately a, "No". THE EMBARRASSING THING WAS HB turned to her friend, who apparently I was 'into' ('coz i was flirting with her blablabla) and said (I'm guessing), "This guy just asked me to go with him!!".
Now look this makes me look like a d1ck because I had been showing no interest in HB. I spent time hitting on obstacle impressing AMOG so when I suddenly tried to isolate HB it was a big WTF moment for everyone. Coz my behavior wasn't matching my actions.

I thought I was dead to be honest. My heart was threatening to explode on me. I was expecting the obstacle to pour her drink on my head. I was about to be another weirdo. Ultimately I still did end up being abit of a weirdo to them, but before a drink was poured on my head I turned to the obstacle and said,
"I was going to take her aside to ask her (HB) for your number, I was just too shy to ask you personally I'm sorry."
What the fark! I'm such a d1ck! What a lame lie (maybe it's not a lie just saving your ass?) Does becoming a PUA always involve this much of being a jerk?? She took my number and was happy, but sh1t that was a close one

Haha well maybe if I had played my cards right I wouldn't have had to have been a jerk. And if I played them right I would have had HB instead of the obstacle.

PLEASE ADVICE:
-When is it good to pay attention to the HB? After how much neg-lect??
-How much should you win the group over, I mean you don't want the ugly ones to fall in love with you (or even worse think you're in love with them!!)
Thanks!
aBloke

*I think alot of PUAs make the mistake of running game route without reading the situation with their hearts or feelings and assessing the best approach to take. They say their lines like a robot but as soon as the game changes they are stuck (like when you tell a robot to do a new task it's not programmed too.). We should all strive *i think* to become more fluid PUAs that can adapt to the game and the situation more quickly as it changes around us.

I personally tend to avoid all kino with obstacles so nobody gets the wrong idea

I flirted quite a bit with her i cant describe it but it was like visual flirting if that makes sense lol? but i didnt touch her at all

Advice #1: relax, dont worry if you make mistakes, its no big deal, the worst thing that can happen is that you will never see the girl again.

As for making the group like you its a fine line, and it takes practice to balance it right. Dont flat out hit on the obsticle, try just making yourself the center of attention and then give her glances (or give her a complement) so that she hits on you. After this you should not turn her down but not lead her on either, just reciprocate what she does to you, and before you know it her friends (ie. the HB) will find you attractive

also, dont try to isolate before you hae built enough rapport with the target, or she will say no. When you get a few IOIs then she prob will want to be isolated

I read this technique somewhere, so im not sure who to give credit too but here.Next time you get in a situation purposely or accidentally where you ignore the HB or the target too much here is what you could say:

"Wow, I feel like iv been ignoring your friend here, mind if talk to her for a bit" - You *to the group
"uhh, yeah sure" "go for it" - Group
*along those lines

If you win the groups approval more then likely you'll win hers too
then you can isolate her, and finish with a number close and ect..

_________________
“Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable.”

hey man,
of course you have to know ''the game'' and stuff but when u approach DONT think about wat's the first step bla bla bla ... because it will mess u up
and next time KINO as soon as possible

I don't think it's the right thing to do. If you select who you will kino first, you're giving your intentions.

Até,
Felipe.

I say straight away, and after NO neglect, ignoring her makes no difference apart from that she might just become disinterested since you seem to be.
I don't even bother winning the group over that much, I don't give a fuck about them. Of course you don't want them to think you're a dick so you need to be polite, but I can't be arsed with chatting to a girls friends. I'll be friendly on the opener but then I will focus on the target either by completely isolating her somewhere else or just talking to her one on one.

Then again I think indirect/MM style game is pointless...

haha I like your attitude Adam T
I don't think you can say indirect game is a waste I think you have to choose your style I have friends who direct game and are successful but they're usually the most attractive in the group.
Too true and as I'm learning the game is like juggling all these balls at once, demonstrating value, lowering value, kino, openers, negs, blabla It takes time to balance them all in good proportions in good order without having to think too much about it.

I guess the practice turns this unnatural game into a more rehearsed 'natural game' if that makes sense

Haha well I'm pretty sure I just did they get a lot of success from direct, why not use it?

The thing is that from the start attraction is either there or it isn't, you can only amplify it or fuck it up, you can't build it from 0 attraction (unless you have money or something else a girl might want from you, but that isn't game). For you to get anywhere with a girl she always needs to a have a little bit of initial interest, even if she's not completely sure whether she likes you or not. So my point is, being indirect takes way too long, and is less effective than being a little more direct. Here are the effects I think ignoring has:

1)Girl has some initial attraction -> she wonders why you're ignoring her and wants you to talk to her -> she gives you IOIs and you can move forwards

2)Girl has some initial attraction -> she thinks you're a dick for ignoring her, she thinks you're more interested in her friend -> she leaves, game over

3)Girl has no attraction for you whatsoever -> she doesn't care, no amount of game can get her (a lot of people will tell you otherwise because they want to sell you their products) -> you just wasted your time talking to all of her friends for nothing

See how ineffective it is? All three can be avoided if you are a little more direct:

1)Girl has some initial attraction -> she is really flattered, see you're very confident -> you can move forward quickly without having to befriend her friends or lose her to another guy

2)Girl has some initial attraction -> you don't lose her through pushing too much

3)Girl has no attraction for you -> she blows you out -> amount of time wasted =10 seconds, now you have more time to find a girl who is interested...

Demonstrating value, lowering value, negs etc. are all a waste of time, trust me. In fact click the link on my signature lol...[/quote]

I can understand your direct game. It does actually make some sense. To me it sounds too much like natural game. So once you open your target do you use routine or what? If not its just natural game really
..

Your view that attraction can only be applified is an interesting one. I would like to hear what people think about this. Maybe for another thread? Isn't the game all about creating attraction??

[/quote]

Man, you've convinced me on direct game. Amazing haha

Natural is the way game should be, it's weird to use routines and pre-scripted openers, ask any woman that. The thing is I can explain my way to a girl and she'll think it's cool... You try explaining to her that you go in with an opinion opener pretending not to be interested, then you neg the girl, then you tell a DHV story and routines, she'll think it's weird.

The community makes a lot of people weird. That's because most instructors don't really know what the fuck they're talking about, all they're interested in is making money off you. I mean think about Mehow, hes supposed to be decent... He was teaching and charging guys money to learn from him after only being laid ONCE. If you read the game you'll see that even Neil Strauss was teaching guys while he was still having trouble even kissing girls, never mind getting laid.
I don't think it's that interesting, it's what normal non-community people believe, because it's true. from the very start it's either their or it isn't, or a lot of the time halfway in between. Like I said these guys only want your money so they'll bullshit you into thinking that if you buy all their products and run 'solid game' you can get ANY girl you want, it doesn't work like that in real life. It's always a numbers game, nobody gets 100% success. I disagree that you can create sexual attraction from 0. A girl who isn't attracted to you might fuck you once she finds out you have money, but then she isn't really attracted to YOU is she?

[quote="dudektria"]
Man, you've convinced me on direct game. Amazing haha[/quote

Haha yessssss!

Natural Game is definitely the way it SHOULD be. But the majority of guys don't have it. You can't learn natural game since it's natural. If natural is part of your frame when you approach then you are putting on a natural game, making it unnatural.

Natural game is just 'who you are'. most guys are AFCs. That's why we all join these forums and read books and try shit out because we don't know how to behave naturally and get women at the same time.

UNDOUBTEDLY it is a stronger game. UNnatural game would only be as good when it is mastered. That's why we all spend time on this because we want to master our unnatural game to make it appear natural.
The community makes people weird because they don't blend their natural game with unnatural game. I agree with this statement because I've seen guys use canned material, unnatural game in field and YES they often come across as FAKE and you're right girls can tell.

Guys think they can learn this material and be great at picking up women. Everyone has their own natural game. But only a few have a great natural game. Therefore any canned, routines whatever should only enhance your natural game. Not become your entire person because that is lame, fake and will not work till you blend that material with your natural persona.

I think If you are a PUA the way your dress, act and look will ensure no girl has 0 attraction for you. I'm gonna say that even if attraction is 1 out of 10 if you're a PUA you could amplify that to a 7. Zero to me is like disgusting, slob or wateva then maybe you will have a 0 and no amplification or skills will help you. But this paragraph is all speculation. I don't know the rules on attraction being created vs amplified. Just my thoughts.