On to the next one...

I appreciate the insight, thanks guys.

Just let the date expose her true feelings for you. If she cancels, just move on to another girl.

Lower back and arm kino? lol - try holding her hand bro, that is real kino because it is mutual - I could touch anybodies back and arm anywhere in the world, it really isn't an escalation

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USER HAS BEEN BANNED FOR REPEATEDLY IGNORING MOD WARNINGS AND MULTIPLE RULE VIOLATIONS

Hmm... either she's a recluse, shy, or she's seeing another guy aside from you.

Last chick I talked to for the last month was off and on with a bf during that time and some days she would purposefully avoid eye contact or act a little standoffish, while other days we would stare into eachothers eyes and she'd cheese, get nervous ticks, and eye fuck the piss out of me.

IMO, that's the same thing ol girl is doing to you.

Not true.

It is indeed a foundation level part of kino as to touch or brush against the areas aside from the goodies.

In many instances, that is a great place to start. It gets her comfortable with you touching her, so you can then move into more intimate areas. She might even do it back after you've done it to her, confirming that she likes it.

I agree though, holding her hand is the next step. I generally try to get at least up to handholding early on a Day 1. I wanna be kissing her asap, cause once you're there, now all the fun ones are a go.

....at least that's generally how I do it, of course though, in kino, once you've touched a more intimate area, one can always go back and hit everything on lower levels.

In your opinion

I am willing to bet, all this forearm touching, knee touching on your past girls was totally irrelevant to you getting laid. But impossible to find out I guess.

Removing all these 16 step escalation ladders and 'incidental kino' from my game made my game much better with just focusing on the hand hold move

This is from my experience.

60 years of challenge is awesome.

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USER HAS BEEN BANNED FOR REPEATEDLY IGNORING MOD WARNINGS AND MULTIPLE RULE VIOLATIONS

Are you not going to thank the people that took the time to reply to your problem?

You pretty much just edited the opening post very rudely there bro.

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USER HAS BEEN BANNED FOR REPEATEDLY IGNORING MOD WARNINGS AND MULTIPLE RULE VIOLATIONS