This is probably a jealousy/inner game issue on my part, but I'd like to hear your guys' opinions and advice. And this is going to be a long post.

So the situation is that I have been with my gf for around 6 months now. When we are hanging out in private, she directs her attention on us (as opposed to others), which is normal. When we're usually hanging out, and other friends show up, aside from the usual/expected greetings, etc., she still focuses on us.

However, there are times when we're hanging out, and if we're with one of her certain male friends, she starts to devote more attention to him. For instance, at a barbecue I organized earlier (and invited him as a guest only for the sake of some of my other friends-- along with his own gf after he asked), when we (my gf and i) were just talking, he walked past, she dragged him over and turned her body language towards him and her back towards me. At other times, she would leave me when we were say, tending the fire or having a discussion, and go spend a lot of time with him, almost sort of trailing him at times, almost ignoring me in favour of him (even though his gf was there too). She'd sometimes just go up to him and lean her elbow onto his shoulder, even though she doesn't do this to many guys at al. She'd also often shout out to him across the field just whenever to get his attention, even when he was doing his own thing like hanging out with his gf. When we have group talks, she usually ends up mimicking or echoing some of the things he says in a giggly/flirty way (similar to IOIs you see when sarging).

So now I'm wondering what I should make out of this. While I know she wouldn't cheat on me now, I'm a bit apprehensive about when I have to leave out of the city for a while at the end of the summer. I'd like your help in figuring out whether:
- She's just using jealousy tactics
- She actually likes him and is just held back by the fact that both of us are in relationships (she's the type who looks down upon cheating/polygamy/FWBs kind of things)
- I'm just seeing things and being insecure.

Now frankly, I don't care who she spends time with in her own time; the only thing though is that when WE are hanging out TOGETHER, I sort of expect that when WE'RE TOGETHER = WE'RE TOGETHER, and not going out of her way to socialize with another (specific) guy.

I've already tried social freeze-outs, such as focusing my attention elsewhere and just ignoring her (when she talks with him) and enjoying myself, except she simply goes to find him and talk (even when he's with his gf). Perhaps i'm not doing a freeze-out properly and seeming like i'm just reacting/pouting. I definitely do not want to react in the possessive/clingy sense, because that would only reinforce finding attention from me when she goes to find him.

I'm considering being direct and talking to her about it, especially the part about WHEN WE'RE TOGETHER HANGING OUT = WE'RE TOGETHER. I'm also considering casually mentioning open relationships and seeing her reaction to that (especially since she's the kind who looks down on those), sort of as an implication, but I do NOT want to come off as being passive-aggressive and beta. And i certainly do not want to come off as being possessive and insecure.


From reading this, it's pretty clear i need to work a bit on my jealousy/insecurity/innergame, except this may be a bit difficult especially since i can't simply "GFTOW".

So the options I've come up with (and I would appreciate other suggestions) are:
- Heap up the social freeze-outs (or make it clearer that her actions are the reason why for them, and I shan't devote more attention to her simply because she's going out of her way to talk to him)
- Directly confront her about it
- Downgrade to open relationship (even though this is against her values, a talk about the possibility might be a powerful thing)


Or am I just seeing things where none exist?

Thanks and any advice is appreciated!

She sounds like a compulsive cheater type to me, I was dating a girl who shamelessly flirted with other guys, anyway long story short turns out she was a compulsive cheater.

What I did? Dumped her, but then kept fucking her brains out every weekend. Then she got a new boyfriend, but she kept fucking me anyway. So I went from the guy getting cheated on to the guy she's cheating with.

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It came to me in a drreeeaaammmm

Ok, sounds like she likes this one particular guy. But if she is so open about it and does it in front of you, maybe she just likes him as a friend? She may be attracted to him, but if she's a devoted gf, so what? You can't keep her from looking at other guys and getting attracted to other people. It's normal, we're human. I'd be worried if she started acting all sneaky and all of a sudden not pay attention to him. That would ring an alarm bell for me. You say she frowns upon cheating, has she ever done anything to raise any doubts in you?
I don't know about other guys, but when I'm in a LTR, these social events are just social events, I socialize during them and I don't cling onto my GF, she socializes too and we're not together all the time, in fact we spend together very little time. Our alone time is when we are together. I don't see it as a big deal, but that's just me

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rAFC and yes, I'm a chick.

I have bursts of being a lady, but it doesn't last long.

This is a bit of a tricky situation.

By telling her to not speak to the guy, you only make her want to do it more, and you come off looking overprotective and controlling.

By allowing her to, you allow the possibility of them establishing more rapport, which might lead to something in the future.

I think the best option is to be totally cool letting her talk to him, and just having fun yourself talking to others. However, if you don't really even like the guy, then there's nothing wrong with phasing him out so much so he naturally spends less time around you guys.

In general, it's important to be confident enough in yourself to know that regardless of anything, she'll always want to come back to you.

The open thing is something I've been doing a while now. It does contain its own jealousy and insecurity issues, but because they're integral to the whole system, you actually work through them and can become a lot less needy, jealous and reactive because of it. HOWEVER, I think talking about moving from monogamy to open is very difficult, because it will almost always feel to the other partner like a rejection, like you're basically saying you're not that into them any more and want to see other girls. If you're comfortable with it, it's best to START the relationship as open first, and then if monogamy is something you both want later on, then have that conversation.

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I am not an expert on PUA.

However, I am totally an expert on manipulative/cheater-type women.

To the original poster,

You can NOT reward her behavior.

What she is doing is inappropriate, she knows it, and you know it. Yet she still persists.

Ryan made some good points above in that you have to be unfazed by her tactics.

I would go a step further and say that you need to draw back away from her.

Not freezeouts and that sort of thing.

If I am with a girl who is actively giving THAT MUCH attention to another guy(s), then I'm going to be the one to initiate the following discussion:

"You know, I really like you, and we have a lot of fun. But I think things may be getting too serious a little too fast. For the sake of everybody involved, let's keep our options open. Life's too short to be so serious."

Then drop the subject. No discussion, no further explanation, no answering questions, no further expounding, nothing. That's it.

When she asks "What is that supposed to mean?"

You reply with "Exactly what I said." and, again, drop the subject.

Basically, by doing this, you are showing her several things:

1. You are not controlling.
2. You are not afraid to lose her.
3. You know what she is up to.
4. You won't put up with it.
5. You can play the same game.
6. You are in control of your emotions.
7. You are not deeply affected by her stupidity.
8. You are alpha.

Hard to argue with that list.

One story I will share...

I was on a "date" with a woman, we started as a long distance relationship, met over the internet (not something I ever do, not before, not since, and it wasn't a dating site). Anyways, our first meeting, there was unbelievable chemistry. We went out to dinner at a very upscale city-type steakhouse. The waiter (some 20-something douchebag), comes over, and immediately starts being flirty (in a friendly way, basically shopping for a good tip) with my date. I wasn't offended. However, her response was way over the top. It literally turned into the two of them "getting to know one another" right in front of me. Ridiculous, I know. I laughed. Ordered a beer. Sat back. And said "Hey, Man, I think the lady would like it if you joined her for drinks. You two seem to be hitting it off quite well."

Now, that ended it right there. But I've gotta tell you, if it wasn't for the $50 steak coming my way, I would have walked out on the two of them mid-conversation. It was so far over the line into inappropriate, that all I could do was laugh and look on in amazement.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

No, and when we've talked before (about relationships in general, not specific issues or us), she has come across as really looking down to that kind of thing, and would also be really hurt if cheated on. It's not the possibility of her cheating that i'm concerned about, but what Ryan said about building more rapport increasing the prospect, not to mention the fact of the simple emotional/attention investment imbalance -- it just bugs me.
I agree with you that these social events are just social events, and I really just enjoy myself there, while she can do whatever she wants (in that cases that I specifically bring her there to something where she's not familiar with everyone else, I won't just simply abandon and ignore her). Quite frankly, I don't care about who she wants to hang out with/do in her spare time, only it's the issue of When we're together = we're together. Of course at social events where it's the norm to socialize with everyone, but what I believed I saw was a bit of an imbalance. It's true that if it's a barbecue where she knows most people, we're probably not going to be stuck to each other 80% of the time. Maybe only 25% of the time, and she hangs out with whoever else for 20%, 15%, etc. of the other time (which I'd completely have no problem with). However, I personally found it strange - and it really bugged me - that she'd be spending 40% of the time with the other guy (and even calling to him when we were together), while she was with me maybe 25% of the time, and the rest divided among whoever.
So this goes back to my original concern that why would she spend more time with him especially, even though I'm there -- it wasn't a simple issue of her simply talking to everyone, but specifically one person.


THIS is exactly my concern. And the fact that i'm going away for a trip at the end of the summer doesnt help. Not to mention, it frankly just bugs me when she goes out of her way to call to him especially when we're together (multiple times too).
I agree exactly. It's not the fear of her cheating that concerns me, but the fact that she's almost going out of her way to socialize with that specific guy -- which I think is very atypical. In the private time we spend together, I don't see any warning signs or red flags; it's only this issue that really bugs me and is fucking with my inner game. And i know that as soon as I let myself become possessive/insecure, i'm fucked.

So I suppose the question I'm asking is how to address the issue of her actively trying to socialize more with that guy specifically. And also, what I can do to not let this get to me and fuck up my inner game (because I'm starting to think thoughts such as downgrading it to an open, whilst before I've never much given thought to that).


I frankly really don't want to be the one to pull the trigger (yet) and downgrade our 6 month exclusive relationship to an open relationship. The fact that she looks down upon polygamy is going to make the blow of perceived "rejection" even stronger. But I want to sort of frame it as a warning of "If that's what you really want (because of what I'm seeing from you), so be it". Yet, I definitely do not want to come across as being insecure and giving ultimatums/threats of breaking up -- I want to frame it as if her actions are what's prompting me to offer her this option: In fact they indirectly are, since they've been fucking with my emotions and creating insecurity which all have made me consider now the possiblity of an open relationship.

Hmm.. I understand what you're trying to say Mack, and I do agree, but again, we're in an emotionally invested 6 month relationship and I don't want to come across as being that harsh/standoffish -- almost bitter passive-aggressive. I like what you've said, and I'll keep it in mind: That quote will definitely be used if she crosses over the line of her specifically making plans to see him.

So I'm looking for an in-between of simple freeze outs. Perhaps I'm not doing them well enough/long enough to make it clear that it's HER actions that are making me withdraw -- I'm wondering if I should directly tell her that it's Her actions that are making me feel "disappointed" or "turned off" -- not "bitter" or "passive-aggressive" from her behavior. There's a fine line between the two, and I'm asking for your advice on how to walk the line. Would it be a good idea to directly tell her my sentiments? Because this issue is seriously fucking with my emotions and inner game.

never directly tell a woman what your complaints are.

show her.

like i said above, she knows that what she is doing crosses a line, and so do you.

so let's establish that fact.

i'm not saying she is cheating.

but you know, she knows, i know, and we all know that she has crossed the line of disrespect to some point.

freezeouts are to punish questionable behavior or game playing in my opinion.

but outright disrespect, that (for me) is when the games end,

and action begins.

don't tell her how her disrespecting you makes you feel.

she knows. and obviously doesn't care.

think about that.

time for action.

sounds like you are afraid to lose her? which is biggest problem of all.

you can never let your fear of losing a woman affect your judgment on how/why/where you get respect and decency!

that is the road to afcness

be THE MAN in the situation,

not a second woman.

show her that you are decisive, and not wishy-washy.

show her that when she "decides" to heavily flirt with another guy to the point of getting seemingly wet over him...

that you will "decide" not to fucking put up with it.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

ps - it's only passive-aggressive if you don't mean it.

if i said that to a woman, i would ABSOLUTELY mean it.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

Hmm I get what you're saying Mack, and I definitely will pull the trigger if she goes past the next boundary -- At this moment I want to make it clear to her that what she did was unacceptable, and that there'll be no second chances should she choose to push it even further. But how do I make this so it's clear to her? Because a simple freeze out might make it look like I'm pouting (reacting), or ignoring her (in which case she simply finds that guy for company). What I want to do is make it obvious that I am turned off/disappointed in her from her actions, and I want to know if verbalizing my sentiments and turning away is better than simply turning away -- I want her to connect her conduct to my "disappointed" response. I don't feel it is right yet to pull the trigger and assume she wants out -- I suppose I'm just that one step before that, of explicitly telling her my boundaries (and reinforcing them), before acting on them fully and downgrading.

So how should I turn this into a sort of warning -- not yet an AFC grovelling for control type of ultimatum, but a clear sort of "I'm directly telling you how I feel about this, and what my limits are -- if you want to try me, so be it; don't expect anything short of what I've warned you about".


One thing I'm thinking about doing is cutting the amount of intimacy I allow her in our own time together. I'm thinking we could be kissing/escalating, but that instead, I stop and say something along the lines of "I just can't do this ... It's just, I had wanted to love you and every part of you, but I can't -- I don't want to because quite frankly, I'm just turned off by what you did. I'm just disappointed -- I expected better of you, since I admired how you're classy and honest (she is honest). But what you did at the barbecue just really made me lose all my attraction for you -- And I don't think i can love you like this without not being genuine to you until I know you understand"

(possibly lose the last bit about "until i know you understand (the consequences/what you did/how i feel)"

I might then segue into how I have high standards for the people whom I welcome into my life; that disrespect/disloyalty/dishonesty/disinterest is simply not tolerated, and she is no exception from my values. However, I'm reluctant to verbalize this part, because I believe this is simply easier demonstrated (and I only need to verbalize the first part to make it absolutely clear)

Something like that, with hints of push-pull and qualifying. What do you think?

no offense, but you don't listen, lol.

yep, go ahead, and tell her alllllll about your inner-feelings.

good luck with that!

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

In fairness Mack has laid it out 100% what you need to do. You don't explicitly say 'hey, I don't like it when you devote attention to that guy, what about meeeeeeeee?' (or something like that hahahaha).
If you do this it communicates insecurity which she will more than likely feed on and do it all the more.

If you merely demonstrate through action as Mack has suggested, without explanation you flip the script - she then starts to think 'I must have done something to bring this about' will rack her brains, and if she's in anyway intelligent may realise through her own volition that it's probably because she devotes attention to this guy.
You haven't DLV'd by getting petty, you've just taken your stand and your frame is one of non-neediness, non-bitchiness - in fact fuckit, just read the list of 8 that Mack has already posted in his first reply!

Also: The woman could not give a flying fuck about your inner feelings. Forget the fluff, forget the chat/talk/reasoning.

Look at the actions.
The age old cliche 'actions speak louder than words' could not be more apt. IF she truly did consider your feelings she just wouldn't do it. No more reasoning or analysis needed.

She KNOWS what she is doing and unfortunately you can't engage her in a straightforward verbal manner, she'll just deny, deny, deny and if you continue that thread DLV, DLV, DLV...

Fuck all that - take your action - let her think and wrestle about what she DID rather than you trying to TALK through HER actions.

let us know how you get on.

thanks calimoxo, thought i was talking to myself here.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

Dude you are like one of the best advice givers on here. I've read alot of posts where you nailed it.

PS I'm reading this post because I had something similar happen to me with my ex. She openly flirted. I mistakenly told her she was disrespecting me. She replied "That's the way I am and I'm not gonna change for anyone."

So I replied "So if I flirt with girls when we're out (which I consciously don't do out of respect) then that makes it ok?"

To which she replied "That would just be mean."

Needless to say we broke up. I learned the hard way, the best way maybe.


Funny enough that's what drove me here to PUA. We broke up like a year ago. What's more funny is I've turned into the man and literally the past 2/3 weeks I have learned that she wants me back. She must have observed my countless DHV spikes. (We hang around with the same people.) I've constructed this to happen, for her to want me back - and now it's happened. To be honest I don't really know why I wanted this to happen. I don't particularly want her back. Maybe it was revenge? I did tell her when she broke up with me that she will regret it and I meant it and knew that this day would come where she wants me back. You know when you just know something.

Note to any noobs reading: Jelousy is the biggest motivator for women

I was in a similar situation as you. My gf is a Cabin Crew which only stayed with me about 3 days a week. Whenever she leaves, she seems completely ignore me, no calls, no text unless I text her first. It seems like I have got a half GF. I know she had been flirting with some of the guys, and I think she had lost interest to me.
But, when she is staying with me, she treat me really good and I can feel her love.

We just started for less than 3 months and we are living together now, is there any ways make her more into the relationship and change her attitude?

I was planning to have a talk to her about our problem this week when she came back, but after reading the advise from you guys, I will think of another way to get her back. Thanks for the advise above, you guys are surperb~~~~~