Am totally ready to get blasted for this post.

Been dating this girl for 4 months. 6 weeks back we had a fight where a playful argument turned insulting and i ended up in the dog house. Totally lost balance after that. She forgave me after that but I've become so weak since then. Our relationship was going strong up to that point.

I should specify two things. One is we're both in late 20s early 30s so this is not exactly puppy love/teenage stuff. Second thing is she is in grad school and is going through a super busy few months with work and exams.

I have been trying to be laid back and haven't asked to meet in the last several weeks, but she has been suggesting we meet, and then being coy about when. Last weekend she suggested we meet on friday and then makes an excuse she's still studying/working and flakes on me. Again, I know we shouldn't excuse bad behavior, but she did tell me that the next few months would be bad for her and she's like 3 months from graduating from a long academic journey.

Anyways, just gonna back off but feel like a little beta chump and need to repair the ego a bit.

I know a lot of guys are gonna say dump the bitch, but hoping there might be some other opinions

Well I don't say dump her just be aware of your situation. Best advice I could give is back off and do not jump all up in her face saying hey Hi look at me I still am hear and you can have me on a whim. Na whatcha need to do is go out and pick up some new girls. Just get out there and play. Have fun and watch what will happen. your attitude will change and your old girl will see that something is different. She will want what others will have. Don't even try to score 8 and 9's or even try to close them. Just go out talk to the oppsit sex and have some fun. Also when dating do not keep a time card of how long you have been dating. Its all a day by day thing. The past will not keep the present glued together. There are no rules to that so when shit hits the fan you can not say but baby I invested so much time and money in you. Oh and it helps to let her know that you now have new girls who are friends but don't rub it in her face like your bragging. Just be like my friend Julie & I had coffee and we were talking about....
When you have friends that are girls it add's value to you. Making you a guy that "gets it" with girls and there whacked perception of value. Also they are very territorial. I have a group that is ok with sharing but its some thing I upfront make it a rule for dating me. Also don't forget cream rises to the top and the top girl get more of my time.

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Why guys and girls don't mesh.

"Chicks are crazy and guys are dumb." Chinopants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... a_Nno&NR=1

Yeah thanks dude. I agree about the dating others. My friends have been saying for me to do that for weeks but I was under the impression she and i were getting back to a good place. instead she was probably giving me shit tests to see how needy/clingy I was after our fight and I failed them pretty badly I guess. She texted me on saturday after the friday flake and was acting like nothing happened. She did apologize on friday and admitted it was all her fault and she didn't mean to be so inconsiderate. What makes this all so hard to read is she's in medicine and it's hard not to be understanding when someone is at the hospital saving lives. Also she's so close to the finish line, so how unreasonable is it to think she'll be focused on that more than me. The big mistake I am making by showing it affects me is that I 'need' her and when I meet her at her convenience i show low value also. After the fact, I hate myself for showing both of those things but damage is done.

Am meeting this new yoga chick tonight who hit me up on some online thing. Just need to get some positive momentum going and try to turn things around in my head first.

I do so much better with girls I don't give a shit about even in a relationship, and i know why that works, but honestly, I don't want to be with a girl I don't care about. That is the f**ked up part. Yes don't get clingy/obsessed, but I was with a girl for two years, and even though she was hot, I felt nothing but comfort with her. With this one I feel like it's got great potential but because of that I turn into a freakin AFC loser. SUCKS!

I'm relatively new but i'm going to give some advice in the relationship section since i had 7 years of experience with it.
So first, you got out of balance because of some fight. Seriously don't be, never ever end a fight out of balance. My girl would always on purpose misinterpret the thing i say in a fight so that ihave to defend myself. What you say here is this.

Look i told you *your argument* and then you misinterpret everything i say, just to put me in defensive mode i'm just going to stop this convo here. We are not children anymore and when i say *your argument* i mean *your argument*!

Never ask her if she can forgive you. You told her the argument for some reason. She wants you to stick with your opinions and see if you are solid enough to not get out of balance! this means she can rely on you. Break her misinterprate thing by naming it! Tell her what she is doing and that you dont like that


Another thing is look at the relationship asif you are on the same team. People who have busy lifes like to get out of it for a moment! So being completely abcent is not a good thing. Call her and ask her about her (busy) day and tell her she needs some time to relax! Your going to put up that nice restaurant/cafe/... you both like and say it's good for the both of you to spend some time having fun!

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HI

I totally agree with you on the argument part Lone Star. Showing weakness there was where I lost all value. I was a debater in high school and college and took the argument too far because I'm competitive and like to win, but then when I knew I went too far with it, and she got really upset by it, i turn into a little kid begging for his toy back. It was fkin pathetic and I hate to admit it. But what's done is done and I can't erase that error.

But it's that combined with being too there for her that is messing me up even more. I agree it would be romantic to take her away from her stress, but she's not reciprocating such affection with positive feedback. If anything i become more of an AFC to her, because I'm basically saying you are more busy and important than me and I will re-arrange my schedule to make you happy. I do have better hours than her and have more flexibility with my scedule so yes I can accomodate her, but the fked up thing is her attraction is going down as I do it. Asking me out and then flaking on friday is really fkin bad, even if it's serious work/study issues. I can't now go to her and say i know you are busy baby so let me take you away from your stress. She'll let me and then lose even more respect for me.

The big problem here is I have no power in this relationship. I am not looking to dominate her, but at this point I am a way too much of a chump and the only way i can save face and maybe save this relationship is to reverse that power shift. Otherwise she will eventually dump me anyways and then i'll feel even worse. hence the back off and create self value is a critical step i need to do right now which am trying to begin.

I've learned to not let the playful arguments go on for too long. They start off harmless but then you'll say the wrong thing mean nothing by it but she'll take it totally out of context and get upset. You've got to choose your words wisely or you're screwed for instance if you jokingly call your girlfriend fat(even if she's not fat). She's going to think you not satisfied with her.

Or jokingly tell your girlfriend you'd like a 3 some with her and her best friend(I had a friend tell his girl just playing around and things went very bad they're still together but it's not the same relationship they had before.

You got end the playful arguments quick.

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Friendzone 1-vt51424.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Yeah I agree. But it was the stupidity of how I reacted afterwards that really f**ked it all up.

The hardest part now is to stop focusing on what I can't control, ie what damage it's done and how bad the situation is, and focus on what I can control, which is get over it and try to get myself in a better mental state.

Another friend of mine is also in the same situation as her in terms of finishing his residency but he still makes time for his chick. His opinion is, she wants to see me but because I have been so accomodating she doesn't consider it important to try to make time for me or honor the time she makes to see me. Basically she has this great excuse of finishing her program and being really busy, and I am this supportive slug. She can have me as her backstop when she feels like meeting up. I know exactly what it's like because what she is doing to me is what I was doing to my ex and it worked like a charm on her for two years. It's not intentially malicious, but you know the person is there for you so you take them for granted. Karma is a real bitch.

Such behavior needs to be corrected, but I don't think I want to end it and move on. Plus talking about it with her is definitely not helping. Just makes me look needy and again puts more importance on her.

Gonna try the freeze out and focus on other stuff (including chicks) and see how things go. As I say, I haven't asked her out once in the last month, it's been her asking me when I can meet, but when I agree to meet, I was too open as to when to meet and the 1-2 times she had to postpone or re-sched I let her see that it upset me which again gives her too much importance.

I know there is nothing good about dwelling on mistakes or beating myself up, and maybe it's also some one-itis but honestly, just feel like shit right now. Maybe need to go back to chicks I am indifferent towards because at least I am in control (even though I want a girl i really dig).

Arguing thing
i have to disagree with reo sory. I like to debate myself, i think it's a good thing. Please don't change it!!!!! You like it, so keep doing it!!!! The thing is that girls like to get emotional when you are just reasoning to her. What she'll do is misinterpret your reasoning just to get you to react emotionally. Next time you face this do what i said to you. Tell her she is starting to misinterpret what you say. She'll remain upset at first but then you tell her this!; "Look i had to explain my argument to you because you misinterpreted it and i'm not going to do that again. Simple; its not how you percieve my argument its what i meant with it" you can end this line with a smile and be quite! And move on to something different even


Lack of connection thing
At this point you want to see her more than she wants to see you. Focus on being her man. Start leading her and show your personality and beliefs. Also give her lots of space to talk about herself and her beliefs so the two of you will start to know eachother deeply. Do not quallify her! Let her be herself so you can be yourself too! Be honest though when you have a different opinion and if there is need to argue. Go and fight a little! that's healthy!

You two did agree on having a relationship together, but she wants to experience your role as a man before she'll completely surrender to you. You two should end being on the same team and be able to be completely yourself. No games anymore. So who has the best scedual or is most available becomes bulshit

Never get out of balance though. When she sticks to her opinion/misinterprestes your opinion, never change yours. Instead of convincing her about your opinion be a little loose and say. Well we probably have different opinions about this, and thats nothing but healthy. What i'm trying to say is she wants to be convinced she can rely on you so that she will surrender! bring in some emotion! The two of you need to build up a life together.

- Visit places together (slowly build this up from café's to dinners and finally vacations)
- Visit eachothers family (first casually meet her sister in a bar and finally eat dinner at her familly's place)
- Share beliefs and insights (What is your plan for the furure an what are her's)
- Explore new things together (you both like sishi but never visited that restaurant)
- Set future goals together

Remember girls can freek out if you push the above list too hard. So first show her your personality/beliefs/goals in life etc. without her being mixed in it. She will think about it when you are abcent and starts to picture herself in your future plans. She will slowly start to bind to you

If you want my example of how i behave towards a girl that has already completely surrendered to me read this; here-vp623707.html#623707 She was a very independant girl when i met her but i made sure we maintained contact every day!!!! After a year she surrendered to me and whe had a deep connection. You have to have contact every day! PU rules like not caling her are bs when it comes to having a relationship. You should be on the same team here! No games

i'd do this
All people like to clear their mind for a sec and have fun. Science even proved that after you did your performances go up! Convince her of this and even tell a personal story where you experienced it!

Don't get upset when she's not available! You two are on the same team, tis is not a competition. You can even tell her that!

Maintain a connection with her and listen to her. No texts but phonecalls. I did this with my ex before we would go to sleep. just 10 minutes to talk about our days before we go to sleep! Give her advice on how she could handle things diffent that happened to her that day! Be her man that gives her a direction in life. Ater a while she'll start to believe she cannot live without your advices and opinions. SO DO THAT EVERY DAY! and wish her good night

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HI

Thanks for the detailed post Love Star, but I'll be honest, it's a hard thing to follow right now. As you say it so flies in the face of everything I've read about alpha, pua, and even what friends and family are saying. Also you showed that girl your alpha from the beginning, and maintained consistency on it. I showed her a weak beta for the last several weeks and failed her shit tests.

Ironically before our fight I had invited her back to my home town for a visit and she also was talking about her brother coming to town and suggested I meet him. Ever since then, it's been downhill.

Last I spoke with her was saturday. Everyone, and I do mean everyone in my life is saying, stay away from her for my own good. Stay away from her for a period of time and let her come back to you. I don't love the idea of doing this but being available to her and reaching out has only been working against me right now.

In fact even last week I said to her we should go for a nice weekend getaway sometime and she was excited about it, but what does she do 3 days later. She flakes on our date. Now is it a flake when the person gets stuck at work? Not exactly, but I am adding this flake to over a month of not exactly making me a priority at any level in her life.

Your posts are very compelling, but I just can't figure out what the deal is with her and how best to deal with her going forward.

All i know is, if you have the ultimate girl, but she doesn't treat you well, she's not the ultimate girl or you haven't made yourself worthy of being treated well. I need to get myself sorted.

At what point does it just stop being worth it?

You're right... if she's the perfect girl - and not fucking you... she's not the perfect girl.

Test compliance, then make a decision.

NO chick is worth that effort in my world. I'm done being fucking miserable.

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Women are like ceramic tile.... if you do the prep work, and lay them properly the first time...you can walk all over them for years to come.

I don't know dude. Things were going really well and now they are going crappy. Part of me thinks she's being a bitch to me right now, part of me thinks she's just overwhelmed by work, part of me thinks I just fucked up and am digging myself deeper by being a beta male. So if it's one of the second two, then what am I really taking in terms of punishment? If she was like my ex and a total doormat to my stuff, then I wouldn't respect her anyways. She's confident and is not taking my shit and I like that. But have I handed over all the power in the relationship and can I get any of it back? I don't know, but if I can't then yes it's over.

Anyways, I'm going to meet this yoga chick now for some drinks. Just want to have some fun with another female and feel like I am normal because the self-critical and scenario analysis stuff is driving me crazy.

If I don't reach out to her and she doesn't reach out to me this week or even say next week, does it mean it's over? Again I don't know. Probably it does, but that's the weird thing about where we are. It's just awkward and I'm trying to figure out some optimal strategy and there probably is none, except to just be laid back and see what happens over time.

You are right! I've been giving you advice on how to handle things when you are in this position again. However your not! And becides i've been not been alfa to that girl from the start. I've had periods were i was 100 times as AFC to her than you are to this girl now. I've been crying in front of her/begging/stealing things from her/crying in front of her gf's.

What i'm now going to do is give you advice on how to get back to the position where you can follow the advice i gave a bove (lead her/be alfa her/be her man)

Advice
First of all Live your life like you've lost her already. She's nothing but an addition to your life.

Secont try the freeze out (I dont believe in it. In a relationship you have to maintian a connection. Wheter its a bad or a good one! The freeze out is only going to make it easyer for her to tell you that you are AFC and wants to leave)

Third! Well it might be that she doesn't fall in love easilly! Fact is she's not in love with you at this moment. this advice may be a little controversial but i don't think the freeze out will work because it's not going to give you a deeper connection. Look this girl is not in love with you and my exgf had the exact same. It took a year to get her binded to me. What i'd do is (for one year) Put in a lot of drama!!!!!. Make sure you meet up! (Be demanding to her) This is an important meeting!

You now prepare for an ultimatum and all emotions are welcome here! Youre going to make sure you are in bed with her and start a convo. During your convo you are going to be cool and alfa but you are going to BE HONEST ABOUT ALL YOUR FRUSTRATIONS ABOUT HER. All emotions are welcome here. Anger/sadnes/disappointment. I would do this at her place and when we were fighting hard (verry emotional) i would simply say; "and now i want to go". Just walk out and believe me she will stop you. However push her away and just walk to your car and go away.

Your now back in her head and you can (give her a second chance) and start things over until again she is going to be flaky again. She'll maybe ventilate her frustrations about you but your not going to let her take the frame. Keep telling her what she's doing wrong in the relation and if she doesn't want to reson with you about it suddenly leave.

Oh yeh don't tell her she's not texting you enough. Tell her she's not investing at all and that you don't take that! get the emotions up high! (opposite of a freeze out! just let it all flow and be honest about your feelings! never ever act happy to her when she makes you feel bad! Ventilate thet emotion you have inside and make it her problem)

Sorry guys it's dirty but i did it naturally when i was a 15yo crying/virgin AFC that met a 18yo HB9,5 that couldn't even be tamed by 24yo dudes that were way bigger/older than me.

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HI

I wrote my last advice in a bad mood. Sorry
I'm going to take it back because it's a bit messy and i think you are too old for tricks like this.

However the essence of it is that i believe that not contacting her wil deminish your relation and will make a break up easier.
I think its better to confront her talk it out and set up some rules for your relationship. First make her agree on the fact that the way things go right now are going to lead to you two breaking up in no time. You can tell her that the both of you are not investing enough and that you are willing to change that yourself if she's willing to do the same. You can stipulate here what you think her quality's are and that you'd be verry disapointed to let the relationship blead to death while the both of you never invested and leave the potential of your relationship undiscovered.

If she tells you things are probably not going to work, out so it's better not to take the rist you can put in the drama like i explained above. And afterwards have make up sex and fall asleep together:)

Oh yeh don't do this over the phone!

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HI

Thanks Love Star, but I don't think I can pull that off right now. Just feels like it's too late for all that. We've had talks in the past and if I am honest with myself there's only been non-compliance to my requests. Granted they weren't me leading her to that behavior and probably me begging for it, but too much damage has been done. This girl just is too comfortable with the fact that she has me in her back pocket.

Met this other random chick last night. It was fun even though I don't see any real potential with that girl. Was good just to meet a girl and have a fun relaxed date. Will try to have a few more of those so I can get over my one-itis.

But my goal still remains the same and maybe that will fuck things up until i stop thinking this way. I still want to get back with this girl ultimately. I just think the next contact has to be by her and if she doesn't reach out then I know she probably wanted out of this thing anyways and was flaking/making excuses because she wanted me to end it with her.

I hate girls that do this! I always respect the girls who are honest and just say that they don't think it's working out. Doing all this no contact stuff shows a massive lack of respect and back bone!

Not to piss you off but in my experience when a girl ends a relationship with a lack of communication it's because she's getting her attention elsewhere...I think all girls want attention from a guy no matter how busy their work/life gets!