dude! Maintain your frame! Didn't you say that she treated you like shit? Or at least that she just had to put in less into the relationship than you did, no matter what?
If you were unhappy with her, then you have no obligation to her.
If she lied to you, manipulated you, then freezing her out is really one of the nicer things you can do.

Other options:
a. besides bringing the law into it, you could sick another chick onto her. I saw a special on National Geographic about the habits of the human female creature. Ya know, how they mark territory with their articles of clothing, etc. They demonstrated how if one of these creatures is annoying you, you can have another one pick up the phone when she calls, and be like
"You best back off MAH MAN bitch!"


b.a quick update on my parallel situation with my emotionally manipulative ex-gf. She called, she cried, she begged, etc. , and because we had been together for 3 years, just having her out of my life wasn't quite enough. I wanted to make her realize what she lost by treating me like shit. Oh and I wanted to turn her into a sex slave.

So basically I talked to her here and there for like a month, and then I proposed the idea, that we could see each other one a purely NSA basis. But that I was seeing other women, and this would be her way of proving to me that she is capable of humility.

I could provide details on how things went from there if anyone requests it, but in short, today things are going quite nicely.
In fact, this has become a new beginning for her. She is actually enjoying the new challenge of having to work to improve herself in order to win over my occasional interest/attention. The implicit competition of other women, and the very realistic possibility if being ignored for another two months if she does something hurtful, has given her a new purpose in life and really, she's happy about it.

Mack, I wouldn't suggest even considering such a maneuver unless you're well prepared for any sort of tricks she might have up her sleeve.

thanks, guys. i appreciate your insights.

this has been a really tough situation. i never saw any of this coming. the problem is i expected this girl to be able to maintain her frame. see...she has maintained that i am a piece of shit for the last year. yet somehow she kept coming back for more. the truth is that she knows i am probably the best man she has ever been with (in a wide variety of ways, not the least of which is my character), but she would never acknowledge it. because to acknowledge that someone has value is to give him inherent power. she didn't want to cede the power to me (in her mind) of me knowing that she needed me, wanted me, LOVED me.

well, too fucking bad. i don't have room for emotional manipulation and mindgames in my life. i came up really fucking hard in life. had been homeless, criminal, drug addict before age 19. i have a lot of wisdom that some people work a lifetime to get, yet never attain. so, i don't handle transparent games very well, especially when i am expected to act as though i don't see them and then required to play along. fuck. that. shit.

this chick put me through hell. and she never budged. not one bit. her frame never rattled. she was always cool, in control, in the driver's seat, etc. well, finally i had enough and walked away. not a freezeout. an actual "walkaway" (as in: i am fucking done, and never to return).

once the reality of this began to settle in with her, her frame fucking shattered and dissolved into nothingness and the true person beneath it was exposed.

desperate.
afraid.
clingy.
needy.
spiteful.
abusive.
obsessive.
controlling.

i don't need any of that. because, quite frankly, none of that looks like "love" to me. maybe i am crazy, but i don't think ^that^ is "love". so, i maintained my frame and have continued to.

that's when things escalated and i actually started getting spooked by her behavior. the weeks upon weeks of harassment made me start to question things. things like: would this chick try to fuck me over? would this chick try to ruin me? would this chick continue to interfere in my life indefinitely?

so, i contacted her to say enough is enough. and she tried, in vain, to reclaim her frame. i wasn't having any of it. i told her that she was out of her goddamned mind and was so far over the line from appropriate and into inappropriate behavior that it wasn't even funny anymore. and that her "disrespectful and annoying" behavior would be "criminal" behavior that second i made one stop to the courthouse to get a PPO against her ass.

this shit wasn't funny. this bitch was STRAIGHT-THE-FUCK-UP HARASSING ME.

no level of heartache allows another human to HARASS someone else. christ, i knew better when my first gf dumped me in sixth grade. i moved on. it was hard, but i moved on, i didn't harass her. this full-grown woman doesn't get that?

fuck her crazy ass. i need my life back. i warned her "one more contact" and your ass is toast.

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

I'm really interested specifically in the first half of your post. She could never be rattled and pretended she was always in control - an alpha female, you could call her - but when you fought fire with fire she finally melted. Interesting.

I don't know your situation well enough to give you solid advice, nor does anyone else here, in truth. But if you are afraid of her ruining your name, maybe it would be best to patch things over with her in a very calm way. Explain to her that you both need to move on and it's for the best, and none of this would have happened if you were truly meant to be together. Just try to redirect any hatred she might have for you and turn it into something positive for her. I know that's way easier said than done, but depending on how much control she has over your personal information it might be for the best.

Good luck!

being dominant and direct scare away those girl in most cases.
those girls are insecure as hell .. if you give them genuine compliments they freak out as well..

guys think they are getting rejected but in truth the girl cannot accept the fact you gave her a compliment , they don't believe it and it fucks with their reality.

_________________
AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
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This is a good thread... it should be stickied!

Mack and Wal make some pretty right on posts. I was reading this thread for quite some time; I even bookmarked it.

It's rather interesting to see how most of us fall under the same boat, no matter what we label ourselves, we cannot be a "PUA," especially if we're in this type of relationship. Most women now a days end up being what Mack describes them, or as I'll say, a "manipulated bitch." It's rather interesting how these women turn out to be someone who you can see yourself "bonding" with, but by the time the full comes out, they transform into some monster and never change back...or even when they'll tell you how much they're in love with you, and the next minute bitch you out for something so petty. I throw myself under this same exact train.

I've been dating the girl I'm seeing right now for almost 10 months, the first 5 months were amazing...but since then it's been all down hill with all the "breaking up," and "hooking back" together bullshit. This doesn't stop me from applying PUA material on other women, as I still number close and hang out with women daily, it's just the girl I'm with wants the impression of knowing I'm her "boyfriend," and it mind fucks me at the same time, because yes... I have grown emotional feelings for this girl, I mean who doesn't when a relationship feels great the first 6 months of dating someone? You get into that whole lust and companionship stage where you think shit will last "forever," but when month 7, 8, 9, and whatever roll by, it's like what the fuck? You both try to save it, or maybe YOU try to save it, and she just starts pushing you into that bubble until you are out of options of what you can do...so you don't even try anymore. I classify myself in this boat, I can't really classify her exactly as Mack describes it, but I can say she can be a manipulated "bitch," - She's gorgeous, or maybe I feel that way because I've become emotionally attached to her? Yeah, she's a red head...and it's so bad every other red head I see, I HAVE to pick them up... it's embroidered in my mind that I'm attracted to red heads, and I'm a sucker for them...it's not like you can come across them every now and then, so why the fuck can't I dump the one I'm with now? Shit CAN be amazing at times, but it's like "I" have to take the blame for shit I didn't do, she'll never accept the blame, and she'll want to be called pretty and everything... we use to fuck every day for the first six months of meeting, now it's like every other week if I'm lucky... why do I stick around to put up with this bullshit? Like I said, yeah, it's "oneitis," - I'll think of ways of breaking up with her, and when I do she'll agree, but then she'll tell me she misses me, wants me back, everything...and yeah....she's a drug, I take her back and we fuck, and we're back to square one all over again, but for how much longer can this go? It's sad to see how people change, in this case, women.

I'd put myself in the same position as some of you who replied to this thread, and as emotionally attached I am to this relationship, I'd like to know your feedback/opinions on what you'd suggest on moving on... As one person replied, yeah, you'll have to make sure your social circle is big and you have back up plans to keep moving on to where you can completely ignore her, until you forget her... mind you I've gone two weeks trying that but it's not as "easy" as it is, they always sucker you in with that "I miss you, I love you" bullshit, and I will admit, I'm not as strong as I once was, or should be, I tend to become emotionally attached. I enjoy applying pick up when I'm out, I extend my social circle, but it's only to an extent, as I'm in an area where the population isn't that great, and meeting HB's are a handful. I can easily keep myself occupied at times during the day, NO PROBLEM! but what about times when it comes to when there's nothing to do? And she's around wanting me back? The fuck am I to do to get rid of her? I can't change my number... and I'm definitely not going to for her.

I do love her, I just wish shit would work out for the two of us...but of course I can see myself losing this one soon, just not exactly how much longer I can hold onto the relationship, and I'm sure most of you will suggest to get out of it while it's still early in the relationship, give me suggestions!

hey recovered,

have you told her exactly what you just typed in your post?

if not, you pretty much should.

i was brutally honest with my chick.

turned out she didn't give a fuck,

if you really like your girl, set her ass straight.

if she straightens up, she might be a keeper.

if not, lose her, fuckit

at this point, weigh your options...

what have you got to lose?

vs

what have you got to gain?

think about it.

just say this:

"bitch. i love you. but i ain't putting up with your fucking bullshit anymore. you will respect me AND give me steady sex, or i'm out. if you love me, stay. if you don't, go."

haha, then walk away... or hang up... whatever.

who knows? you might end up with a great little housewife out of the deal, lol.

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

Everytime she fake breaks up(or intentionally acts like a bitch until you wanna break up), and then comes back saying "I miss you, blah blah" it's not like she really surrendered.
It's actually a symbolic power play.
Everytime you take her back, you give in, unconditionally, you're making her feel like she owns you.

If you don't want to just dump her yet, next time a break up happens, make her jump through some hoops before you take her back. Like as the fake break up begins say:
"Now I know you're gonna come crawling back and begging. I'm warning you now that from the moment that you do, I will make you wait one month before I take you back"

Then she'll test you to see if you really meant it. And I mean REALLY test you. with all sorts of seductive maneuvers.

Two months later, take her back.
Enjoy your girl, who will have a new found respect for you.

Das all.

respect, GOK!

how's things with you and the misses? lol

anyway, i found the magic word to get rid of mine:

Personal Protection Order

it's been the most quiet and peaceful week of my life.

it's funny how well she can actually behave under penalty of law.

kind of sad she couldn't modulate her behavior any other way.

of course, i do still check under my bed at night.

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

ok here is the deal .. i dont care if people reject me.. even if i would care i will forget about next day. lately i was trying out internet dating ... somehow i met this person , and she is still on my mind because because i felt/feel like she got some control over me ?

my intuition told me this is a woman who looks and behaves good but there were those subtle cues of manipulation...i was trying to bust her on it but somehow she keeps turning it around to me - like im responsible and at the same time like i have no control.

first i started meeting her on a dating site... she came off very dominant and aggressive - cocky as well.. like '' im going to fuck you '' frame. of course i like these frames and this is what im good at .. being cocky and indifferent. i said something about dating older woman and that she does everything to stay young.. we exchanged MSN...

so i met her like 2 days later ( on chat) .. she initiated contact, she only asked like 2 questions '' where i live and what i do'' .. she never ever asked a question regarding my personality - i was leading the conversation constantly fixing attention on her ( hey leading and plausible deniability right ? ) but somehow she didn't gave back any personal attention...

suddenly she asked if i a high sentive person ( HSP ) which is correct .. suddenly the whole conversation changed.. she was trying to show and teach me things. At this point im confused .. on the dating site she appeared to be dominant...she intiated all chat - i didn't even had time to initiate , she wasn't dominant or cocky at all during conversations, at one point i felt like she's interested and at some point i felt like she wasn't.

she gave of all these mixed signals , at this point im getting or unsure - like im not sure who is in control or not and this makes me needy somehow. after like 3 conversation i never spoke to her anymore online .. but i saw her changing her quotes and pictures on MSN .. so she is online ? why need does she need to be offline and why doesn't she talk to me anymore ? i mean she told me she liked the convo - even tho i was not sure if she's interested or not.

at this point im getting angry because i don't know if my''game'' has worked.. i don't even know my sticking points and somehow i feel controlled. im getting angry because it feels like someone has wasted my time , used me as a way to get attention and lying to me about being interested....so know my awareness goes up ... suddenly im like hyper fixated.

she communicated peronal shit to me in like 10 minutes .. like she got divorced after 20 years of marriage and all these emotional things. to me it looks weird to communicate that so quick ? why does she pretend to be offline ? why does she talked about her previous marriage that quick ? does she just wants to get laid , am i facing objectification and ASD ?

--------------

now im getting the feeling and thought that she's manipulative... so i deleted her msn and sent her a email telling her not to contact me anymore because she's kind of weird and unprdictable.

(we also talked about dreams and paranormal stuff in chat .. something i like to do..).suddenly she propose to explain my dreams to me and that she's trying to be a good person and that what im feeling or seeing is just my issue.

now this is getting interesting to me .. i told her she's weird and i don't want contact with her anymore but she replied ? lol actually i would be offended lol.

2nd email : telling her i got the intuition like i need to avoid her ... then i ask her why she thinks i should avoid her ? is there a reason ? i tell her my brain trust her like 100 % but my feeling doesn't trust this situation at all.

anyway she doesn't answer my question so im asking it again.. i also keep talking about paranormal stuff and dreams - she seems highly interested. never throw away your ammunition.. let people think you got something they want right ?
----------------------------------
3th .. i tell her i don't want to talk about what i've experienced .. i told her im going to tell her later ( ammunition ). so i started to ask why she's talking to me ? what is her reason or motivation ? i also said i felt like she wasn't interested in me from like the 3th minute of the interaction. to be non needy i told her that she doesn't have to answer - it's her choice...

i finished the message by telling her that '' maybe im not feeling like i need to avoid her ... maybe i got the intuition that she is avoiding me ( which is the case .. pretending to be offline ).
-------------------------
now she suddenly opens up.....
first ( on the dating site ) she felt attracted because she likes young men ( duhhh all old woman do ) she told me she was interested as me in a person and she still is.... ... (now i don't know why she says ''was and '' still is'' lol)

when we got faster interactions... on topics like the supernatural and spiritual the interaction changed according to her... after she asked questions and about that stuff...

she still isn't really saying if she's interested or not .. keeping me in the dark with conflicting messages.

now she tells me it's ok if i don't want to talk to her again .. she isn't going to stop me or change the way i feel.

in the end she says she's not avoiding me en im not feeling what she is feeling... i need many years and many hard choices to make the same growth as her. ( she never asked a personal question about my personality and life)

-------

i told her that i know that im asking many questions .. my interest in her was already different before we were on chat.

again i resort to my ammunition ... i told her that i dreamed about her before i met her which is weird , she is very interested in stuff like this. people i dream about are warning signals .. once i met those people in life it didn't turn out well. ( this chick is highly interested in this shit )

i told her that you cannot feel what something is feeling by having one conversation.. she's being unrealistic and impatient - you need to spent more time in real life with eachother to understand someone on a emotional level. also told her that it's immature to pretend like i haven't experienced any personal growth like her - since she didn't ask any personal question about my life - i told her that she doesn't know me... i also said that i don't know her - and that her claim to expect someone to understand her in like on hour on internet chat is again immature and unrealistic

i thanked her for her replies .. wished her good luck and told her im hoping she will attract alot of good things.

---- no reply....back from her .. yet lol...

it is weird .. she's saying she isn't avoiding me ... while she pretends to be offline. on the datingsite she was behaving different than in chat .... interest kept changing in interactions... she never asked personal question - only facts. after like 10 minutes she tells me she divorced 1.5 years ago..there were MANY subtle manipulation cues ... i only most didn't noticed them , once i sent that last message i felt a weight falling of off me. she interacting ALOT but after 3 convos she pretended to be offline on consisten basis

again ... im not 100 % sure and it's still a feeling .. is this woman manipulative or not ?

even if she only wants sex .. i want her to go for it directly .. im not some fucking 2nd choice - im not a fucking chode and i don't feel expendable at all .. fuck that shit and fuck second rate behaviour. got the feeling she isn't honest....

_________________
AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526

lode,

sorry for the late response.

be CAREFUL with this one.

there are ways to find out if she is a manipulative drama-whore.

essentially, you need to do two things:

1. be fun and affectionate with her
2. totally disengage your feelings.

it's almost impossible to do those two things simultaneously, but once you do, you will be immune to her bullshit without driving her away from you.

what you will have effectively done at that point is removed drama from the relationship.

then...

give...

it...

time...

and see what hapens.

one of two things will happen:

1. she will start to become more attached to you, draw in to you, want you more.
2. she will try to endlessly start drama.

you will have your answer if you follow this strategy.

i could share more details...

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

also lode,

in the meantime ... you must game other chicks.

to prevent all one-itis tendencies.

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

Lode:

so far it sounds like she is a normal woman. as in, she is no more manipulative than the average woman.

The kind of women we have been discussing in this thread, that we refer to as emotionally manipulative, are 10, 20, maybe 100 times more manipulative.

I agree with her that you do have a problem. You can't be angry at her for pretending to not be onlne. And you can't be angry at her for wasting your time.


Woman speak in little lies, it's their language. The biggest mistake you can ever make is to call them a liar.

If you think she is a REAL liar, someone not to trust, then even more reason to keep your suspicions to yourself. And perhaps decide to stop talking with her. Don't send her an email telling her this. Just stop talking to her.

Thank you mack.


Right now i'm juggling two manipulative girls. The second one is like a mini version of the first one. Luckily they are both jealous of each other. Each one is 98% pacified by the threat of the other taking her place.

Working so far.

Thinking about maybe going out and meeting some sane chicks!! Hahahha.


Ya know the saying: Sane, Attractive, Available. Pick 2 out of 3.

i appreciate the the replies .. your replies and interactions with her got me thinking...

greenorgy .. you totally describe how i feel...i also got bothered by other shit in my life that week - i shouldn't talk to woman when im feeling that negative , untill i solved those issues.

and mack i agree.. somtimes im not disengaging my feelings toward strange people.. it's something i should be aware of all the time when dealing with new people... i sent her a response in where i told her im sorry for calling her immature - because this is a plain insult - she didn't insult me at all. time to game more woman

_________________
AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526