Apologies guys, I've been tied up with child care, hence the late reply. Update = no response.

Vagus - Sounds to me that you've got some skills/talent and maybe some natural talent. As for 'managing expectations', I dunno what advice I can offer as I've always had similar issues myself. Maybe it was the women I chose, their maturity at the time or the way I handled it [being as I know now an AFC]. I never been a f**k em and forget em type of bloke. All I can suggest is be clear in your intentions and firm and re-iterate them where necessary. A friend of mine suggested to me, if/when I meet a woman, after the initial sex, just put em on a 'slow heat'. This may work for you keeping them keen and interested but also at arms length.

I'm also conscious and aware that 'gaming' a lot of women has a price [I haven't experienced this but I've had many conversations with friends who have]. These are real good friends of mine, so we have real conversations. One of them told me it was great, he tried all kinds of women, different races, different sizes, big boobs, long legs etc [I think you get it], we laughed about it. Then he finished up with, you know what after a while, their just 'meat', women just become 'meat'. Another of my friends was a big player back in the day, he had his own home, drove a porsche. He gamed everything, including married women & women with BF's. Told me loads of stories of his escapades and near misses, the type of stories blokes like to tell each other. He's in a steady relationship now & has a family. I know and he's told me he genuinely hates the person he was back then. Sorry to put a downer on it mate, just thought I'd share my thoughts with you.

tomlove - your right, the online game is better seen as a sideline, my view now is just something to pass the time. I have limited time but I'm planning on getting out and about and try out what I've learn. In fact my antenna is on all the time now, where ever I am.

Ordered a copy of 'the game' today and looking forward to reading it.

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~ Life is for learning ~

I'd drop the date thing; after offering twice, that's enough. People do what they want to do, and if she wants to go on a date, she would have made the time. Opportunity only knocks once, remind her of that.

You can hit a few birds with one stone here. Wait a little while, and get into a conversational tone with her again. Get a feel for her schedule, it sounds like you really don't know her lifestyle given that she always had things going on, assuming she was genuine. You should have known about her other plans before asking. You wouldn't go into battle not knowing where the land mines are.

Make plans with some friends, a group of guys and girls. Doesn't really matter what it is; going to a game, out to shoot pool and drinks, a concert or night at the symphony. Just make sure it's with a group. Invite her out, "I'm going to xxxx with some friends Saturday night.." and then tell her she can meet you out, make her do some work. You're shifting the scales where you are now the one with plans, and she can come along because you've allowed it, made it possible. Rather than you asking her for a date, and giving her the option to decline if she has anything else going on.

You're also making it more casual by having the group of friends. She might be more inclined to come out if it's a group rather than a date. You could even tell her to bring a friend, which, if it's a girlfriend, opens up all sorts of possibilities. There is also the opportunity to have a secret, when she says she's on her way she might ask, or you could put it to her, "So how are we going to say we know each other?" Chances are she's not entirely comfortable with the online dating thing. If you develop some cover story for your friends but keep the real secret between you and her, it creates a point of intimacy, something to potentially poke fun at, and otherwise ease the tension.

If she doesn't come out, so be it, move on. Go cold. She might make contact, if so, that's cool, test it out but don't jump. If she doesn't, move on. Maybe send her a text in a few weeks and see what's up, perhaps her situation changed. Timing is everything.

Cheers dude, thanks for taking the time to reply. I like the strategy and your right timing is everything. I'm definately gonna consider this as an option ...

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You're welcome, I'm interested to hear how it turns out. I think your situation is one that everyone confronts at some point. I've been there myself, and it's always a challenge to step out of it mentally, and shape it the way you want.

UPDATE : Nothing for 2 weeks now .. My money's on flake

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~ Life is for learning ~