It was a rhetorical question. You can't and you rightfully exclude him. You're not wrong for doing that.

But what then? He still has himself to live with.

I think the advice guys always receive is 'be yourself and the women will come'. That is straight BS if you don't know the first thing about attracting women. We're talking about guys who don't get any women to begin with.

The better advice is 'be a better, more confident version of yourself' which for me is the real goal of PUA.

Believe me, most begginners won't have super success using those lines. But they will see better results than with their former approach and slowly they'll discover man inside them. When this happens 'true self' will come to surface and seduction will be spontaneous.

But it is important that men learn that for example supplication/whining/begging won't get them laid, in spite of what romantic comedies tell them. What will get them laid is being the men they actually ARE. Reason why guys with low self esteem feel that way is this.

1. They're using socially acceptable methods of seduction (supplication/being nice)
2. They fail with it.
3. They feel guilty about it / they feel something is wrong about them. What is wrong about them is that they're not being man that they were created to be. They're trained NOT to be themselves by society. But usually those people fail to recognize this and simply begin to think that there is something inherently wrong with them as human beings.

What people discover with these methods is not a super secret way to get woman to bed, people discover what they REALLY are. Most men are very destructive and self-destructive. Reason for this is because they're falling into socially acceptable frames, lose self-esteem/confidence and then become self destructive.

PUA community actually helps these people to step out of socially acceptable frames and be themselves in the end.

Alright I can understand people finding help for such things here. But as an example I just read a post about someone asking for tips on how to convince a girl who's already in a relationship to go on some kind of date with him. I mean really... there's definitely a proverbial underbelly to it isn't there?

Okay, so hopefully I can clear something up.

It's not about the "what" or "why" or "how" or anything like that.
In fact, it has nothing to do with women (bear with me and keep reading).

Having "game" in my opinion, is about self-realization and progress toward what it is you wish to become.

You are whatever you want to be. The mind is powerful. It can trick itself, in fact. Everyone here is looking for something different. Some guys want to get laid, some guys want to be able to merely talk to the opposite sex, some guys want to find a mate for life. Whatever it is each man wants in this community, we're all just here to help out.

You get to ask your own questions, and therefore steer yourself in the direction you would like to go with the information that is provided on this forum. Men are years behind women in development of social skills. That's a fact. We're just not as mature in that fashion. This forum was obviously formed on the pretense of "gaming women," but honestly, a lot of us have come to realize that the skillset provided and developed through practice is applicable to life in every area.

Most of the information on the forum in the stickies...that is...canned material...openers...day2's...closing...blah blah blah... I don't even use anymore. It was a way to build confidence. You find your own way. Hope that helps, and sorry for rambling.

I'm not going to lie to you here. Some guys just want to get laid. It's your choice if you choose to use a blanket statement based on a few dudes who want to nab women out from under their boyfriends, bang out different girls each day of the week, etc. You already knew that some of us are dirt bags.

The key is to look at the positives of the community, as there will always be negatives involved. Most of the lesson is acceptance. No one is better than anyone else here. Going back to your example, however, you must understand that she's no better than the guy stealing her if she is willing to fuck him while dating her boyfriend.

Every story has two sides. Keep reading in the forums. Maybe you'll learn something. But above all, the only bad person on here is someone who tells the others that there is an absolute right or wrong. We all have our opinions and respectfully offer them when asked.

lol There is a 21 year old Asian HB10 who woke up beside me this morning who would completely disagree with your assessment. She finds this all fascinating and quite cute. I"m not sure why you're so angry, however, girls like you who are completely reactionary and fueled purely by your emotions their emotions are the easiest targets for an experienced Pick up artist.

_________________
"Success is more important than being right." We all have a little nerdiness in us. The trick is to find it.

Equis is right, it"s not just his Asian HB10 that thinks like that, there are many women out there that think this stuff is good for the men, so they can learn a few thinks about women in general. There are so many sides to this than every body thinks. Its not just sex, its so more than that, as they explained. But I"m very glad that the girls are reading this , so they can be aware of the morons that are just going for sex. And its better when girls know about this , or at least a few things, so that the Game will have more Excitement to it. It will be more funnier and more entertaining! !!!

I'm not angry, I enjoy sex and seduction a hell of a lot. I also agree that it's good that men are learning how to interact with women in ways that strip them of their awkwardness and social barriers, there's nothing worse than missing out on things because of insecurity and fear, shyness can be cute, but there's a point where it becomes detrimental.

I guess I just feel vulnerable that I'm not likely to know if I'm being 'gamed' by a smooth talker and I could end up being manipulated in certain ways and not even know it's happening, like I have no control over it, I'm not saying being sweet talked isn't nice. I don't really know what to think about it?

@Lacey.... Your nose wiggles when you type.

Huh?

That's just hilarious.
Don't worry Lacey - some people laugh, others need an explanation.
(I don't think I should be the one to explain though...I'll leave that to others.)

Hey Lacey, don't worry about being manipulated. I mean, there are guys that are just naturally good at seduction and somehow know what to say and how to act in every moment. Those guys may have never heard of PUA community, but still are very successful at seducing women. So what's the difference if a guy that has read about stuff and practiced uses it to seduce a girl he likes? No difference at all. I'm sure you'll be able to weed out guys who want to take advantage of you. If it makes you feel any better, the community encourages guys never to lie to a woman to get something from her, for example not to pretend they want a relationship if they're just after sex and so on. So in a way, a lot of guys who come here will be more honest than your average Joe.
There are no special tricks here, Lacey. There are no lines that will make you automagically fall in love with a guy. No one can trick you into doing something you don't want to. On the other hand, a right response to something you said can get the guy those few extra minutes of conversation that will make you want to get to know him. That's all there is to it. Teaching guys not to be needy, whiny little brats so that they get a chance to show their full personality to girls they like and not get blown out before they have a chance to do so. There's also a female section here, if you decide to stick around maybe you can take a look (you need administrator approval for that).
For example, has it ever happened to you or some of your girl friends that you liked a guy a lot and you seemed to hit it off great, but then he suddenly turned cold and stopped calling? Maybe the girl got too eager, clingy etc. and the guy lost his interest. Here we discuss things like this. How to be yourself without coming off as needy etc. to have more successful relationships. And even if you feel this is somehow deceitful, which it is not unless you lie to somebody, no body will ever be able to use these tactics to hide the fact he's a jerk. So you see, nothing to worry about

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rAFC and yes, I'm a chick.

I have bursts of being a lady, but it doesn't last long.

lol Lacey, do you have PUA envy? Yikes! I actually met a girl like you the last time I was en England and she was pretty but kinda creepy. It was either that or she was all over me cause of my accent. What is with girls there being so cold you get frost bite until you say, "No I'm not American I'm actually Canadian." They then turn out to be very sweet. Difficult, but sweet. Don't worry I could never date a blonde so please don't get confused by my intentions.

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"Success is more important than being right." We all have a little nerdiness in us. The trick is to find it.

LMAO.