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The Doctor
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 Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: PUA's are like Breast Implants |
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Being a PUA is like getting breast implants... It's the geneticly weaker of the species mimicry of the geneticly superior.
Just because a milk snake looks like a coral snake, does that make it's bite equally dangerous? Of course not, the mimic is basically a colorful garden snake and the real one is neurotoxic.
The problem we have in all of these scenarios is the focus on symptoms... DHV stories are a symptom of a High Value life, Negs are symptoms of not believing someones value is higher then yours, and not needing thier approval, even being the Prize is a symptom of being preselected, confident, and self sufficient... PU is all about mimicking symptoms.
Does the Coral Snake value his stripes for thier protection? Of course not, he has venom for that... However the mimic places so much value on the symtoms because he has no venom... in essence the symtom is the cause for a mimic.
I think this is why PUA's often get 'addicted to Sarging'.. because theyre value system is setup as a mimic. They value the symtop without the cause and blindly try to define thier incompleteness. This is also why I think most PUA's fail in relationships where naturals tend to succeed... things change in a relationship, for it to be truly successfull it's not about the symptoms anymore, it's about the causes the person beneath the person... the inner you. A mimics inner them is the same as always, and gravely dissonant from the symptoms they have been portraying.
The only way around this is to alter your very R and S values... not portray higher R and S values... but obtain them. You can never achieve this through anyone elses work but your own... no amount of sarging or closes or forum posts will create this... you must become a great human being... or risk the neverending cycle of incompletion and distain that results from being a mimic. |
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Hobbit
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| This should be stickied. And I love the title. |
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christopherphilip
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Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Agree, good post. But then again you can probably learn how to be good at relationships too, but you have to want to learn that too. |
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Zip
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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absolutely absolutely absolutely.
I often feel like all the PUA strategies, methodologies, tactics, etc. are like putting a band-aid on an infected would. Yeah, it externally covers up the bleeding, but it doesn't heal the infection. That's why "inner game" is so important. That's why it's important to positively augment all areas of one's life. Yeah, you can get numbers and sleep with girls, but you can't make someone of real value become attracted to you unless you are attracted to yourself.
That's not to say that using "negs" does not have a time and a place. Sometimes starting out with some of that stuff leads people down the road to advanced lifestyle augmentation, which is a good thing. |
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KINGCASANOVA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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I COULDNT AGREE MORE. MOST FOLKS SEEK PUAING (OR MASTER SEDUCING AS I CALL IT) TO BECOME GREAT WITH WOMEN, BUT THE TRUTH IS THEY ARE TRYING TO FILL AN EMPTY HOLE AND ARE AT BEST ONLY GETTING HALF OF THE EQUATION. SECOND, THE WUSS STUFF THAT WE USED TO DO THAT LABELED US NICE GUYS IS REALLY GOOD STUFF (not all of it, just some of it)THAT WE MUST USE IN RELATIONSHIPS, BUT IN OUR QUEST TO BE COME MASTER SEDUCERS WE PURGE THE NICE GUY STUFF INSTEAD OF JUST KEEPING IT ON HOLD UNTIL IT IS TIME TO BE USED. AS A RESULT WE SUFFER THE SAME PROBLEM WE HAD BEFORE BECOMING PUAS BECAUSE WHILE WE CAN GET SOME FROM A WOMAN WE CANNOT KEEP HER.
Last edited by KINGCASANOVA on Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Papi Lindo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Being a PUA is like getting breast implants... It's the geneticly weaker of the species mimicry of the geneticly superior. |
I must respectfully be the first to disagree for many of the same reasons outlined in:
| Papi Lindo wrote: | | What pick-up does is eliminate the poorly taught social mannerisms of the masses. For those who learn from its teachings, they metamorphosis their personality from treating it like a worm, to admiring it like a butterfly. For others, they become the by-product of our industrial world. Machines that replicating techniques and lines. |
What you are claiming is that there is a universal artificiality to the world of social dynamics. That simply is not true, because to accept that implication would be to acknowledge pick-up as something more than a tool.
This would be akin to claiming that fitness is centric around the dumbbell weight; instead of recognizing that fitness revolves around your discipline, exercises and your goals. You aren't going to curl that 50lb free-weight if the underlying criteria are not met.
Similarly, your success with woman is going to be limited if you don't have the lifestyle to support your value stories, your charismatic C&F and the plethora of other things that this community helps you refine.
| Quote: | | PU is all about mimicking symptoms. |
True Pick-Up is about recognizing that those 'symptoms' exist within you. The whole reason this community spawned was because we are never taught to nourish, embellish and present those things we have which attract the opposite sex. You are not copying fallacy, you are merely learning to portray your own reality in a different way.
The exception does exist...and that is the "robotic PUA." However, I do too much justice to this disease than I should by even calling them PUA. This is what you refer to -- and just like that impersonator in Vegas wasn't the true King, these clones are not the genuine Venusian. It's important to distinguish between the two, otherwise you may end up buying the rip-off that was 'Made in China.' |
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Hobbit
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Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Papi Lindo wrote: |
Similarly, your success with woman is going to be limited if you don't have the lifestyle to support your value stories, your charismatic C&F and the plethora of other things that this community helps you refine.
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Your basing your argument on a premise that they will have limited success without the lifestyle. That is not true. Pick up is about cold approaches. The girl will never get to know that their stories were untrue, and will continue to work with wonderful success. I don't think their analogous.
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You are not copying fallacy, you are merely learning to portray your own reality in a different way. |
Working on your inner game comes. But until then, you have to mimic naturals to get the confidence to then shape. This is why canned material is the crux of any beginners arsenal of "their reality". His argument is that many don't get past the mimic stage to work on their reality. |
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xxIcexx
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Hobbit wrote: | | Papi Lindo wrote: |
Similarly, your success with woman is going to be limited if you don't have the lifestyle to support your value stories, your charismatic C&F and the plethora of other things that this community helps you refine.
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Your basing your argument on a premise that they will have limited success without the lifestyle. That is not true. Pick up is about cold approaches. The girl will never get to know that their stories were untrue, and will continue to work with wonderful success. I don't think their analogous.
| Quote: |
You are not copying fallacy, you are merely learning to portray your own reality in a different way. |
Working on your inner game comes. But until then, you have to mimic naturals to get the confidence to then shape. This is why canned material is the crux of any beginners arsenal of "their reality". His argument is that many don't get past the mimic stage to work on their reality. |
Then who is really being fooled? The girl who will never know if the stories are real or you knowing that you have to put up a front of something that you really aren't just to satisfy your needs?
I don't mean to use this as an example but it is obviously a perfect one.
[link]
He ran into a road block while in a relationship because she became uninterested. Why? Because once all the preplanned stories and routines run out, what is left? Little old you, no more stories to hide behind.[/u] |
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Roads
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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I had a friend in med school describe to me the exact procedure women undergo for breast implants. I gotta say it didn't help my AA to know people are crazy enough to do something like this to their own bodies.
Doc, you're right on with this post.
PUA is just like all other facets of life, it all starts from within. |
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Hobbit
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| xxIcexx wrote: |
Then who is really being fooled? The girl who will never know if the stories are real or you knowing that you have to put up a front of something that you really aren't just to satisfy your needs?
I don't mean to use this as an example but it is obviously a perfect one.
[link]
He ran into a road block while in a relationship because she became uninterested. Why? Because once all the preplanned stories and routines run out, what is left? Little old you, no more stories to hide behind.[/u] |
I agree with that. The point which he was trying to make is that to be a successful PUA, one must have the lifestyle. However, that is not the case. While relationships are corollary, they are not the pick up. Many PUA's follow the M3 model, and know it front and back. This means that they are Pick up Artist because they know what to do right for those first 7 or so hours. The fact that they are successful wth PUA makes them think they do not have to work on inner game, until a relationship come around. The point being one should not focus on just sarging and rather the whole picture. |
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Juice24
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| I honestly saw right thru this post, it was something I first thought before posting on this forum. What my worth is and how much can I do, social life is fun but it doesnt complete me or give off anything that says I need to be a PUA for a long time. Honestly, thru this I hope to me the girl of my dreams and the girl I deserve to be with. While Sarging is fun, its not gonna be my life just something I do apart from it. |
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Chief
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Inner Game 
But yeah. I totally agree. In short, it's not so much about doing as it is about becoming. |
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Papi Lindo
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Hobbit wrote: | | Your basing your argument on a premise that they will have limited success without the lifestyle. That is not true. Pick up is about cold approaches. The girl will never get to know that their stories were untrue, and will continue to work with wonderful success. I don't think their analogous. |
And hence we have that beautiful little word called subjectivity. It all depends on how you define success. If you're just looking a 7 hour tank and spank you will be successful in the field, indefintely, with all the robotic material your can store. However, if your desires extend beyond that initial foray, than the definition changes and limited success begins.
I put forth my statements with a desire to extend those relationships beyond that 'breaking' point. Perhaps that shall help clarify my sentiments. |
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3 hands
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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Hehe, cool this is what I've been doing the past year  My amount of closes are lower then most of my PUA mates but my lifestyle is a lot richer. I got a good job, Good house, good education, Rich social life, my own company is doing well.
These are things a mimic doesn't have. It's cool to be a mimic but when it comes to biting I rather be the real deal |
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Locke
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:33 am Post subject: |
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Body language does not come natural; everything you are doing is actually a mimic of the proper studied way to do it. Does that make the act of improving body language mimicking, and fake?
How do you build ones core without first "mimicking" steps? NLP, Hypnosis, and meditation can only go so far. You have to see that you've actually "got it." You have to spend time in the field to reinforce those positives that you started to mold into. What do you consider a better human being? What is your idea of a great lifestyle that will give you these values? What type and amount of "work" can one do to give himself these things?
I don't like when they say "fake it till you make it" because then you are right, everyone is building their frames off of falsities - a core that will blow over once the wind picks up. It creates a faux core that is a lie to yourself and to others. Eventually, it will crumble - like you said, congruency in an LTR.
A strong core is built from the bottom up with high quality materials (your confidence, beliefs, and self improvements). But again, how can you build this 'pyramid' (if you will) when you have NO knowledge on how to create a solid foundation? Thats where canned material and sarging comes into play. People go out sarging to gain these attributes. Sure sometimes its about new material, and testing things, and number scrounging....but all of those have the hidden benefit - a giant reason behind sarging - to generate and reinforce the slate on which you will grow. You have to go out and mimic to reinforce the foundation you have started.
What I am saying and asking is what can one do to truly increase the S&R values? I believe it takes a bit of external recognition (sarging, nclosing, blah blah blah) before you can really reinforce those traits inside yourself.
Take a homeschooled kid for example. He can be the most intelligent and funny person when he is at home. He spends all his time in his house. He knows (by studies and internet surfing) that he is in fact a genius. His mom tells him every day that he is good looking (which...he is) and when he leaves his house to go to the store to pick up another book on overcoming social fears (because he is not familiar with interaction _ he spends most time at home) he walks with broad shoulders, a squared jaw, and a twinkle in his eye. He knows he is smart, good looking, and funny. Yet when he approaches people, he mumbles and doesn't use good body language...he talks inappropriately, and no one cares about anything he is saying - since he doesn't know what to talk about.
These are all things that sarging, stories, and pua methods teach. they teach how to build off the S&R traits. So, I agree, sarging should not be used to BUILD frame or core...however, it is a necessary part in realizing what needs to be "worked on", what needs to be fixed, what you need to do to improve your S&R basics. You have to start out as a mimic so that you know exactly what it is you are missing, exactly what parts of you actually need self improvement****. Sarging helps to assist in that process.
I'd like to use myself as an example. Sarging gave me the opportunity to realize my potential - it actually made me aware that I should push myself even further!
To finish my rant though, I will say you are right in some aspects. Sometimes I find myself a little more emotional than a good PUA should be. A little less organized and strategized than a good PUA should be. Sometimes I actually have to think: what should I say back to this/her. Things for me don't come natural (well, a lot more natural now than before, but not completely); does it mean they are fake? Does that mean that I have a false core? No. But I do think that everyone to some extent does have a little ego (the "false stuff") on top of their core. Ya know, as insulation. I also think everyone will always have to improve their inner core because none are perfect.
So Doc, any tips you can give the forum (and myself) on how to truly increase your value and mimic less?
****note: although you should FOCUS on the things that need the most improvement, all aspects of your personality and life should constantly be worked on and improved. Maslow is an idealist - getting to that roof of your pyramid rarely happens  |
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