I'm actually dating, not playing, but I'm learning a lot of great stuff and trying to adapt it for my purposes... mostly just toning it down a notch and using in conjunction with online dating. This is practical question, so it should be easy:

If the girl and I are getting drinks, who should pay? If we're at a Starbucks getting two coffees, who should pay? If we're at a Sushi bar, who should pay?

I don't have a problem paying for all of it, and it would just make my life easier to shell out the cash, but on the other hand, I don't want to come off as too needy. If the answer to the above question is that I should cajole her to pay for some things, how does that work practically? What do I say to her at Starbucks when we order Frapacino's? Here are two responses I have so far, but I'd like to hear more:

1) Buy you a drink?! In this economy? You're lucky I've got gas in the car.

(seems cute, but do I then still buy it for her, or let her pay herself?)

2) You don't strike me as the kinda of girl that'd be seduced by a free meal. Unless of course, I'm mistaken?

(again, cute, but who actually pays for what?)

I don't want to get into that awkward situation where we're arguing over the bill.

read slywalker's post (10 things i wish someone taught me!) under the general decussion section

I would give u a link but idk how on a mac hope is helps

EDIT: mIt's on page 2; day 6

Yeah, I have read Sly's post... which is what actually triggered my question. I don't want do the whole, explain-why-i-don't-like-to-pay-until-i've-had-sex-with-you bit. It doesn't seem natural. Any justification there would come off phony. And getting her to agree mutually to a dinner doesn't change the fact that when the bill arrives, there will be the unsettled question of who's paying it. What do I say according to Sly? "This was your idea too, so pony up?" Rather dickish.

Forcing a girl to pay for my dinner seems weird. I would need a good line to do this so I don't seem like a cheap bastard. I was thinking the best way to handle the situation would be to neg her a bit for mooching, but ultimately pay the full bill. Is that a good idea? Is splitting the bill an option?

Again, I'm not looking for one-night stands per se. I want to apply some PUA mentality to a more typical dating situation. Which means I can't bullshit this girl into bed.

You don't have to pay.



btw I try to avoid "Dinners", grab a bottle of wine and take her to the beach, go touring the old city or hit a pub.

If you'll screw it up by not paying (IODs) bash her for caring. and she prob isn't worth it.

You pay

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Walk Hard

Just make it work.

If you're dating a girl who is broke, you pay more often. If you're dating a girl whose financial life is healthier, then she pays more often. Money is just a form of energy . . . and the ideal is for two people contribute "energy" into a relationship. I've heard of guys who demand 50/50 of financial contribution and I think this is a joke. What if you're dating a trust fund baby who makes more money in a day of doing nothing than you do in a week of working your ass off? Oh . . . she wants to go to Hawaii this winter? What will you say, "50/50 baby?" And what if you're dating a girl who is broke and you want to go to Hawaii this winter? Well, you ain't going no where if she needs to fork up money she doesn't have.

Sex isn't the only non monetary contribution a girl makes into a relationship. A girl once folded a bunch of little bills (foreign currency probably worth less than 2 dollars total) into hundreds of little hearts and gave them to me in a little bowl for my b day. Probably one of the best gifts I've ever received . . . the Zenith wrist watch comes a close second.

I totally agree with this, much better than the standard "don't pay" PUA advice. Particulary like the "sex isn't the only monetary contribution" bit.

The main thing is not to make a big deal out of it either way. It is just money. Don't supplicate, don't explain, just pay or don't pay.

That's brilliance right there!

Hi, I'm afraid you kind of misunderstood my post. I know I said that whoever asks the other person out for dinner, I stand by that, it is common courtesey. But, this is why I suggest you don't ask her out on a date. You simply meet up to hang out together, and when you get hungry you eat. And going to grab some food as a mutual decision usually includes splitting the bill, this is also common courtesey!

Just hanging out together, spontaneously and improvise as you go along is ten times better than a date, even in a romantic sense. There is less tension and more room for expression and sharing of feelings. I've had my fair share of ltr's myself so Im not just some guy trying to squeeze just sex out of every woman I meet.

In my oppinion, I think that taking her out to dinner and paying for everything, food, drinks, taxi, entertainment, and then expect sex in return is the real dickish attitude!

Also I would never tell a woman that I don't pay until we have sex together, saying this out loud is just stupid! I usually make up some fancy story about trust and connection and simply tell her that I'm not the kind of guy who tries to buy friendship, I tell her let's share things from the beginning until we share a connection build on mutual respect and not bribes.

I have gone on dates where I have paid for everything, this is why I know that this is not the best way of doing it. My method of splitting the payments is not because I'm cheap, it is because this is the way to create a real connection with a woman, a connection based on trust!

I hope this makes things more clear to you!

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Slywalker

10 things I wish someone taught me about Pick Up 10-things-i-wish-someone-taught-me-vt53087.html

Hey Sly. I'll work on the spontaneous bit, but the best place I know to get together is at a cafe or restaurant -- since an online connection has already been made there's no need to go to a noisy pub.

But here's what I'm trying to reconcile. On the one hand I'm told, be the man and direct the girl. So according to this wisdom I should say, "Let's go to the Sushi bar down the street" rather than, "Where should we eat?" You're saying make a mutual decision out of it, but supposing that happens, is the girl really going to understand that since we agreed mutually, the bill ought to be split? Seems very nuanced PAU psych analysis that won't necessarily register with normal folk.

Even if the first meet-up isn't dinner, I expect a long term relationship to involve lunches and dinners sooner rather than later. I certainly don't hope for sex BECAUSE I paid for dinner -- I might as well just get a whore at that point.

Since you mentioned it I just want to fill in, I prefer to take a girl to a caffee or a quiet cosy bar, don't open a tab just order when you get thirsty, at these places you never end up spending a lot of money so it doesn't really matter who pays.. And when you keep bringing rounds in and pay after each round I have noticed that the girls usually want to pay for everyother round. So this removes the big deal of who should pay.

When it comes to the balance with being manly/in charge/ mutual decisions, this is where NLP is effective.

1. Being Manly and in charge doesn't involve you making all the decisions, you just have to make sure that you never hesitate and you don't let her boss you around.

2. Mutual decisions.. just bring up the topic, you can just talk about grabbing a bite, start small, say that you are not really hungry and then when you pick a place and get there you can kinda start talking about some large meal to split, this is always a little more romantic, and splitting meals usually indicate splitting payements.

Like I usually say, there are many ways to do it but not one universal.\
Since you didnt think it seemed natural to you to talk about morals and why you wont buy her the dinner I suggest you experiment with it to find your own method that fits you!

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Slywalker

10 things I wish someone taught me about Pick Up 10-things-i-wish-someone-taught-me-vt53087.html

Good food for thought. I'll have to experiment.

Right now I think the cleanest solution for me is this: we get the bill, if she doesn't even flinch, I pull out my wallet, pay, and neg here a bit for mooching in a funny/cocky way. If she offers to pay, I tell her I got this one covered, you get the next one. I like the idea of alternating. That way I can start it off and she can reciprocate later. It's manly/valorous, but keeps some pressure on her.

Slight tangent, but have you guys read Influence by Cialdini? The reciprocity principle states that people are more likely to do what you want if they are first offered a small token of charity. Hari Krishna's use this tactic to great effect by offering a stranger a flower and then asking for a donation. The stranger is shamed into complying because he feels something is owed in return for the flower. Not sure if PAU's are keen on leveraging this principle. I think a non-skanky girl is actually aware that if the guy pays first she is now more sexually indebted to him, and that's why she may offer to pay up herself.

In my adopted corner of the world I pay for everything. I always make sure to take chocolates and stuff to her family's place before picking her up. In return the girl gets dolled up for me (all the time), has never banged another guy, and treats me like I am her helpless baby! I am sure I will be 50 with some 19 year old wife who treats me like I am some spastic 4 year old.

The whole "non-date" date has more to do with showing a girl an adventurous time rather than skimping out on the bill. The goal is NOT to skimp out on the bill. The goal is to make a connection and fuck. I'm not sure if you guys are understanding that.

This is a PU forum, NOT a "date budget" forum. So, for any given situation, if you think acting like a tight wad will help you connect with a girl, you wrap duct tape around your wallet. If you think acting like sugar daddy will help you connect with a girl, you act like a sugar daddy. . .

Not sure why some of you can't seem to get past the "Don't have to pay for anything in order to get laid" revelation. Ha, ha, ha . . . yes, you really don't have to pay for anything. Isn't it funny? OK, that is one little "neat-o trick" you guys have figured out. How about now figuring out how to act like a mature man and RUNNING YOUR SHOW in a classy way?

It's not the "paying for everything" that keep guys from getting laid. Rather, it's ALL THE BS that is typically associated with "paying for everything" that keep their dicks limp and dry.

Spending money is just spending money. You're giving energy. When you do it, you do it freely. You do it with a smile. You do it with confidence. You guys seem to understand that it's not right to pay and then expect sex. Great . . . but why are you guys so hung up on SEX? Sex is also just a form of energy. Paying and then expecting ANYTHING else in return is just as idiotic.

Those Hari krishna's typically DO NOT "coerce" you into giving money. They just stand there with that damn smile! They smile, smile, smile. So yes, those guys force that fake, plastic smile and it still works. Be strong! You NEVER have to NEG in regards to money. What do you wish to achieve with that? Be the understanding, mature, caring MAN. You don't know if she just broke her piggy bank to pay her last rent. You don't know if her checking account is at 200k or 200 dollars. If she doesn't flinch, just pay the damn check with a smile and let it go.

(Not saying any of you are like this . . .) But those guys who get off on fucking without "paying for a date" are in my mind a bunch of lowly animals. What they are saying is that they are happy that they got something for nothing. They think they got a bargain. They are happy that they didn't have to pay for a hooker. What they are saying is that one really should PAY in order to have sex but they're "smarter" than that. Idiots.

To me it sounds like you agree with my posts in this section but you are criticizing so many aspects so I'm curious Kasabi, are you on the same page as me or not?

Like I said it sounds like you agree with me since Im making a point of having a good time at a spontaneous date rather than buying your way through a laim dinner...

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Slywalker

10 things I wish someone taught me about Pick Up 10-things-i-wish-someone-taught-me-vt53087.html