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Why Long-Term Monogamy Doesn’t Work In 21st Century America

Preface 1: If you’ve been directed here via a link, that means a point you brought up has been directly answered in this post. Hopefully, the person providing the link has also provided you with the section number so you can find the answer to your point quickly and easily. This is why the sections are numbered.

Preface 2: For those of you have followed my past posts on marriage and monogamy, some of this (though not all) will be repeat. This is because I’m trying to be as comprehensive as possible here.

What follows is my contention that long-term monogamy (including traditional marriage) doesn’t work. This conclusion is based on facts, statistics, observations, my own experiences, and the experiences of literally hundreds of people I have known, dated, worked with, or communicated with, over the course of my 37 year life. I will include all of those items here, as well as the responses to common objections people bring up when I postulate these things.

I tend to get the exact same questions and objections over and over and over again whenever I talk about this, so this will be the one big post that contains everything, so instead of repeating myself, I (and others) can just link to it in the future.

First, we must define a few things for purposes of this discussion.

A1
I am talking about monogamy. Monogamy, as defined in this discussion, means you promise the one woman you are with to not have ANY sexual contact with ANY other people, and she promises the same to you. And, it means you both actually DON’T have any physical sexual contact with any other people.

MLTR’s, OLTR’s, secret girlfriends, cheating behind someone’s back, and extramarital affairs are all NOT monogamy. Monogamy could include flirting with other people, but not actually touching them in a sexual manner.

A2
I am also talking about “long-term” monogamy. For purposes of this discussion the phrase “long-term” means longer than 3 years. For reasons we are about to discuss, it’s actually not tough to have a great monogamous LTR that lasts less than 3 years. Longer than 3 years, then we get into the zone where monogamy “doesn’t work”. More on this in a minute, but remember that “long-term” means 3 years or longer.

A3
I am also talking about the United States (and perhaps England as well). I am NOT talking about any other countries. A traditional marriage in one country is very different than a traditional marriage in another. I’m talking about the United States here. I do fully acknowledge that long-term monogamy and/or marriage does work in some other countries.

A4
I am also talking about this era. For purposes of this discussion, “this era” means after 1990. I am NOT talking about anyone who got married in the 1960’s, for example. Only people married after 1990. I am certainly talking about people getting married now, or who want to get married (or long-term monogamous) in the next 10 years or so. I fully acknowledge that that long-term marriage (somewhat) “worked” in other eras, where the law and social stigmas were quite different than today. But even then, the monogamous nature of these marriages were questionable. More on this in a minute.

A5
THERE ARE ODD EXCEPTIONS TO EVERY RULE. Whenever I postulate a fact, survey, statistic, or observation, there are always going to be odd exceptions. “Well, I knew this one couple once where…”. There are odd exceptions to every rule. Duh. The exceptions prove the rule.

A6
Let me make clear what I am NOT against:

1. Monogamous LTR’s that last less than 3 years. I have a personal bias against ANY monogamy that lasts past about 2 months or so, but I do admit that some wonderful short-term monogamous relationships can be had. Great LTR’s that are 3 years or less CAN work. But even then, you’d better really, really know what you’re doing.

2. Marriages that are temporary. If you want to get married, and know that most likely your marriage will end someday, we have no disagreement. Take the proper precautions and go for it. (If instead you think you’ll never get divorced and/or never experience an affair because “you’re different”, now we disagree, read on.)

3. Open marriages or open relationships. I completely endorse long-term marriages and long-term relationships where one or both partners are allowed to have occasional meaningless sex with someone else outside the relationship, within certain ground rules set by the partners. That DOES create long-term happiness, provided both people have a reasonable idea of what they’re doing. (Long-term monogamous relationships generally don’t create long-term happiness even IF both people know what they’re doing.)

Now, here are the reasons long-term monogamy doesn’t work, in the United States, in this era.

B1
Human beings were never biologically designed to be monogamous for long stretches. Less than 7% of the animals on the planet Earth are actually designed to be lifetime monogamous, and not only are humans not in that 7%, they aren’t even close. Even human’s biological “relatives” (primates) are no where near lifetime monogamous.

This includes both men AND women, but in different ways. I shall describe each.

B2
Women are designed to be short-term monogamous, but not long-term monogamous. As every man who’s had a relationship with a woman knows, women get BORED. Sometimes this happens within 3 months, sometimes it doesn’t happen for 7 years (the famous “Seven year itch”). Women are biologically wired to get bored with the man they are with within 2 to 3 years, sometimes much sooner. This boredom factor is accelerated the more time she spends with the man. I.E., all other things being equal, a woman is going to get bored with a man faster if she lives with him, then if she only sees him twice a week.

Women are designed to be selective in choosing their men, dating back to cavemen times (humans have the same brains and bodies of cavemen 200,000 years ago, more or less). They had to be sure to pick a man who would stick around and survive long enough to raise her children. So today, in the presence of CERTAIN men, a women’s brain will actually produce hormones that will excite her attraction. Much writing has been done on this and I’m not going to repeat it all here (I’m not a doctor or anthropologist anyway).

The problem is that over time, this hormone production begins to wane. Over time, the woman will actually, physically be less attracted to the same man. On top of this, she will also emotionally get bored with him at the same time. Society is FULL of married women who say “I love my husband, but I’m so BORED with him!”. This is a prime factor in the fact that 82% of all divorce is initiated by the woman (more on this statistic later).

On average, a woman’s sex drive for her man will begin to wane at the 2 year mark, especially if she lives with him, and this gets worse and worse over time. Try this experiment:

1. Take 5 married men from your life that you know. They can be of any age, personality, or background. The only requirement is that they must have been married for at least FOUR years.
2. Take each one out for drinks, individually, just you and him, far away from his wife and any other male or female friends. Just get enough drinks in him to get him relaxed and truthful, not drunk.
3. Ask him "How often to you and your wife have sex?”
4. Prepare to be depressed as you listen to his answer.

Alternatively, you could just ask him “How happy are you in your marriage?” and listen to THAT answer. Prepare to be enlightened.

This 2 to 3 year boredom period also helps explain why the vast majority of people who talk about that “great LTR they had once” are almost always LTR’s that lasted less than 3 years.

Note also that this is her biology. You’re behavior as her man does not change her biology. Giving her great sex, or “being alpha”, or running “solid relationship game” or “screening” does not change her biology. Nothing will (other than drugs, perhaps).

B3
Now let’s talk about men, where the situation gets even WORSE. While women are designed for some level of monogamy (short-term only), men aren’t designed for monogamy AT ALL. Worse, men are designed to fuck as many women as they can, to spread their seed around and ensure propagation of the species.

If a man is monogamous with a woman even for a few months, he is actually violating every biological urge he’s designed to have. It’s HARD for men to be monogamous, now matter how moral or mature they might be. EVERYBODY knows this. Here is a quote from Dennis Prager, a conservative religious pundit who overwhelmingly supports the concept of traditional marriage:

“Compared to most women’s sexual nature, men’s sexual nature is far closer to that of animals. So what? That is the way he is made. Blame God and nature. Telling your husband to control it is a fine idea. But he already does. Every man who is sexually faithful to his wife already engages in daily heroic self-control. He has married knowing he will have to deny his sexual nature’s desire for variety for the rest of his life.”

Sounds fun doesn’t it? Wow. Sign me up.

So there you have it. Being monogamous AT ALL for a man, and LONG-TERM for a woman, is a direct violation of our bodily and physiological functions.

B4
Common Objection: “We’re not animals! We’re more than just biological urges and chemicals! We are so much more than that! We have intellects and souls and can overcome these things!”

Answer: Correct, but working to overcome your basic biological urges is very difficult. Anyone who has been on a diet, or has tried to overcome an addiction to smoking, drugs, or alcohol, knows exactly how HARD it is to overcome the body’s biological urges. And this is what you are doing EVERY DAY in a long-term monogamous arrangement. Remember, even if you have been married for 15 years, if you or your spouse has affair just ONE TIME, you’re no longer in a monogamous marriage any more.

C1
Romantic love has a time limit. Romantic love generally lasts anywhere from 6 months until about 4 years on the outside. Much research has been done on this in psychology circles. Once two monogamous people marry or move in together, their romantic love slowly starts to transform into a type of family love. Your husband is no longer the attractive hot guy who totally turns you on. He becomes more like a beloved, cared-for family member. This has been compared to “a family member you fuck”.

Talk to any married couple who have been married a LONG time, as in 30+ years, about their marriage. They will always relay two things:

1. They are in love, but not romantically in love. It’s a much more of a familial type of love.

2. They went through huge stretches in their marriage where they weren’t in love AT ALL, but “stuck it out” because of one reason or another (the kids, their religion, what other people would say, etc.)

In this era, when people (usually women, but sometimes men too) sense the romantic love waning, they get the feeling that “something’s wrong” and that they are “with the wrong person”, and then a divorce or affair ensues. “Sticking it out” is not something most people do anymore.

C2
Common Objection: “Marriage isn’t just about romance and love. It’s about a commitment you make to one another. Just because the romantic fire wanes, doesn’t mean two people can't overcome that and stay together.”

Answer: This is true, but men need regular sex, regardless of the “romantic mood” his GF/wife is in, or isn’t in. It is VERY difficult for a woman to sexually put out often if she’s not romantically attracted to her man. This means reduced sex, and this means heightened chances for a divorce or affair.

D1
The overall failure rate of marriage is 87%. This is an aggregate of many statistics, all of which are listed further below. “Failure” is defined as one of the three things occurring in a marriage:

1. A divorce.

2. Unsanctioned extramarital affair(s).

3. Both the husband and wife are miserable with each other but “put up” with each other because of expectations from society, or work, or family members, or religion, or some other external reason (many of you have grandparents who fall into this category).

If you get married, there is an 87% percent chance you will either get divorced, experience an affair, or experience a bad marriage that never ends. Marriage has a dismal 13% success rate. Let’s cover each of the three “bad” possibilities.

D2
The national divorce rate is about 50%. This is an overall average. In most major cities, it is closer to 62%. So if you live in a city of a million or more people, odds are the divorce rate you’re looking at is around 62%.

Also, what is commonly called the “divorce rate” is just a comparison between the total number of marriages and the total number of divorces in a given year and given geographic area. When you actually look at statistics on the odds of YOU getting a divorce, the picture looks much worse.

For example, the divorce rate for people living in a city who are under the age of 25 is 91%. NINETY ONE PERCENT! The divorce rates get more specific and saddening from there, but you get the picture.

D3
Common Objection: “I’M different that all those other guys. I’m an alpha! I’ll make it work!”

Answer: You can control your own actions, but you cannot control the actions of the woman you marry. Nor can you stop her from changing her mind or “getting BORED” (which, again, is a biological phenomenon, not one created by external stimuli).

D4
Common Objection: “That divorce rate applies to AFC chodes who don’t screen for great women! I’m going to heavily SCREEN for a woman who will make a great wife and mother!”

Answer: I shall quote Uncle Walker, who said it much better than I ever could:

“I think one of the mistakes that some of you guys make is assuming that screening will fix this problem. Screening assumes that people dont change and that you can guess that years from now your woman wont act like almost every other woman is programmed to act by our society….We can look at (a man with a failed marriage) and say screening. I will respond its every bit as much what he did today as what he did yesterday. “

The woman you marry today is NOT the same woman you will be married to 7 years down the road. Again, do the “ask 5 married guys” experiment above, and you’ll see what I mean.

D5
Common Objection: “Look, often people need a marriage to figure out themselves and to get it right. Lots of people are young and/or stupid when they first get married. So they get divorced, learn more about themselves, and then get a second marriage where they pick the right person, and then things finally click, and work.”

Answer: Wrong. THE DIVORCE RATE FOR SECOND MARRIAGES IS EVEN WORSE THAN THE DIVORCE RATE FOR FIRST MARRIAGES. The divorce rate for first marriages, as I’ve said, is 50%. The divorce rate for second marriages is 68%! That’s right. It’s EVEN WORSE. Why? Because on the second time around, people are even MORE “set in their ways” and often there are stepchildren to mess around with (“stepchildren” is the second most commonly stated cause for divorce), and a host of other reasons (namely, that long-term monogamy doesn’t work).

Also, think about it. If long-term monogamy “worked” everyone would still be married to the 2nd or 3rd person they dated way back in their 20’s. Instead, most people have had NUMEROUS LTR’s that didn’t work out. This includes men who are “alphas”. If long-term monogamy “worked” why is this the case?

It’s not “people figuring themselves out” that is the problem. It’s long-term MONOGAMY that is the problem.

D6
82% percent of all divorces are initiated by the WOMAN. The woman-initiated divorce rate is between 73% and 94% based on varying demographics, coming to an average of 82%. The sources for this statistic are: National Center for Health Statistics, American Law and Economics Review, Divorce Source Research Center, Atlanta, GE, and many others. Feel free to Google and do your own verification.

It’s a fact. Men only initiate the 18% of all divorces. Why?

1. Women “get BORED” (see above).
2. In a divorce, women get free money in the form of alimony, child support, and communal property.
3. In a divorce, women almost always end up with the children (around 91% of the time, I believe), and thus child support as well. Where as men don’t usually get child support or alimony (only 3.3% of divorced men receive alimony).
4. In this era, women actually get “big props” from their female friends and family members for “finally divorcing that guy”. In days gone by, women (and men) were ostracized by society for getting divorced.

So not only do women biologically and emotionally get bored, they are actually REWARDED, financially and societally, by divorcing their husbands.

So saying “I’m a real man who honors marriage, I won’t divorce my wife, ever!” only takes into account YOU. It doesn’t take into account HER. She’s more likely to divorce you than you are to divorce her.

But it get’s even worse…

D7
The smarter a woman is, and/or the more educated she is, the more likely she is to divorce you. The 82% of woman-initiated divorces climbs up to 91% and higher if the woman is college-educated and/or has an above-average IQ. (Same sources as above)

Smart women are what most men “screen” for when looking for a wife! They don’t realize they are increasing the chances of getting a wife who will divorce them! So want to reduce the odds your wife will divorce you? Marry a dumb chick! (Even better, just don’t get married.)

D8
According to surveys, approximately 76% of all divorcers are unilateral decisions. This means one person wants to get a divorce, and the other person doesn’t. Now again, these are surveys, not actual stats on what happens, but it does give you a good idea.

Mix that 76% with the 82% woman-initiated divorce, and what do you get most of the time? The woman wants a divorce, and the man doesn’t.

Think about THAT next time the woman you’re dating demands marriage.

D9
Okay, we’ve talked about divorce. Now lets talk about cheating and infidelity. Remember, if a marriage includes a spouse that is cheating, it’s not a monogamous marriage.

Infidelity rates are between 47% and 78%, depending on the individual study and the area of the country studied (numerous sources for this, Google it and do your own research). This goes for both marriages and monogamous GF/BF type relationships.

If long-term monogamy “worked”, the infidelity rate would be quite low, somewhere around 5% or 10%. At a MINIUM it would be something LESS than 50%.

Also, in 1950’s marriages that are often used as examples of “marriage working”, infidelity, primarily on the part of the man, was quite common. Next time your grandpa is drunk, as him a few questions about it and watch in awe as he starts bragging about the all the pussy he got back in the 1950’s when he was married to grandma, living the “perfect picket-fence 50’s lifestyle”.

D10
Common Objection (usually by women): “Men cheat more than women do! So quit your bitching!”

Answer: This may have been true in the 1950’s, but in this era, every study done on infidelity shows that men and women cheat on their partners about equally. The sexual revolution of the 60’s and feminism of the 70’s changed women’s opinions on dutiful monogamy. The only difference in gender-specific cheating stats is that men generally cheat sooner, and women generally cheat later. (Why? Because men were never designed to be monogamous, and women get BORED. The stats mesh perfectly with how human beings are designed. Of course.)

D11
Now, let’s talk about the third type of marital “failure”…the miserable marriage that people stay in for the good of…whatever (“the kids”, “the money”, “our faith”, “citizenship”, whatever).

I have noticed, and you may have noticed, that many very old people who have been married 30, 40, 50 years or more are not quite as happy as people paint them to be. When you observe them carefully, many of them are quite miserable. They don’t like their spouse, they don’t like their married life. But because of other reasons, they just grit their teeth and stay together until the “bitter end”. And it’s pretty bitter.

D12
Also, when men say “My Grandpa was an alpha and he’s been married for 40 years and he’s happy with his marriage!” or when women blissly say “I want a marriage like my grandparents have! They’ve been married 40 years!”, what both of these people don’t realize is that usually, in this kind of marriage, grandpa is the BOSS. He says jump, and grandma jumps. It is NOT the “50/50 partnership” marriage of “two equals” that people desire in nowadays. Rather it is a marriage with a BOSS and a SUBORDINATE (and sometimes, grandma is the boss and grandpa is the bitch…I’ve seen these types of marriages too).

In this era, people (especially women) want a “50/50” marriage (and we all know what 50/50 means to a woman). People nowadays are not willing to surrender themselves to serfdom in order to maintain a 40-year marriage. People (men and women both) are just to picky and independent now.

E1
Why do we even have monogamy in the first place? Not for the reasons you think. Time for a quick history lesson.

Monogamy was not invented because it’s was compatible with, or even desirable for, the human condition. It was also not invented because the masses wanted it. Instead, it was invented for the following reasons:

1. Thousands of years ago in Babylonian times, it was first invented to by wealthy lords and sultans to keep other men out of their harems. These wealthy men could, of course, fuck all the women they wanted, but their women were not allowed to fuck other men. These sultans made it a criminal offense for other men to fuck one of THEIR wives.

2. This then evolved into true “monogamy” several hundreds of years later, when smart beta males discovered that they were losing all the hot chicks to the alpha males. Up until then, in the days of the Roman Empire, if a married husband wanted to have meaningless sex with a whore or one of his slaves, or whatever, this was totally fine with his wife, even encouraged by his wife if she was tired, not in the mood, etc. Anyway, the smart betas, using religion, specifically the Catholic church during the decline of the Roman Empire, declared it “morally wrong” to have sex with more than one person. The reason they did this was to “lock up” a hot woman to them on a permanent basis. Unlike the sultans of old, these smart betas could only get one woman instead of many, but one was good enough.

3. Monogamy then spread even further out into society. The reason? Governments found it easier to control their vast populations if their citizens submitted to this new concept of “lifetime monogamous marriage”, so government reinforced this concept through laws, taxation, etc.

So monogamy was invented by elite men to lock up their women and to more easily control society. It was not invented because men or women at large wanted it or asked for it.

E2
Women reluctantly went along with this new system because although they had no freedom and were treated like property, the “monogamy” system did at least provide them with security, which women crave.

Women put up with it, up until about 2000 years later, in the 1960’s. American women finally had enough of being slaves to their men, and revolved. The result was the sexual revolution of the 1960’s, and feminism of the 1970’s. Once feminism fully took hold of the female zeitgeist, women decided it was “OK” to have sex outside of marriage, and have sex with whomever they felt like, even if it was multiple men. As an added bonus for men, for the first time since the Roman Empire, men no longer had to promise a woman marriage to have sex. It was a pretty good deal for men and women both. Women were finally free, and men were getting laid.

Even better, true feminists of the 1970’s did not demand exclusivity from the men they were with, even if they married them. If a feminist’s FB, BF, or husband wanted to fuck some other chick, that was fine. It was precisely the “ownership mentality” of monogamy that feminists were rebelling against in the first place. These women truly were “liberated”.

E3
This all worked fine until the late 1980’s. Due to a (false) AIDS scare, and due to the sudden resurgence of conservative “traditional family values” during the Reagan era, women started to slowly revert back to their old 1950’s-style monogamy models…sort of. 1950’s monogamous values started to mesh in women’s heads along with 1970’s feminism.

Which brings to the modern American woman of the 2000’s. This strange creature has picked the 2 or 3 aspects of the 1950’s she likes and ignores the rest. She has also picked the 2 or 3 aspects of 1970’s feminism she likes, and ignores the rest. Quite convenient…for her.

In the 1950’s, a wife would have sex with her husband whenever her husband demanded it of her, even if she was not attracted to him, or not in the mood for sex, or mad at him. Also, as I described above, many married men were quietly polyamorous, having discreet affairs that were tolerated by wives and shoved under the rug (JFK was the ultimate example of this).

Under this system of marriage, the divorce rate in the 1950’s and early 1960’s was approximately 13% (divorce rates were calculated very differently back then, so this is general approximation).

In the 1970’s when feminism and “free love” was the rage, it was the opposite. A wife would NOT “put out” whenever her BF/husband wanted, but she often WOULD let her BF/husband go fuck someone else if she wasn’t in the mood. Under THIS system of marriage, the divorce rate doubled from the 50’s to the 70’s, moving from 13% to approximately 28%. Much worse than the 50’s, but still less than a third of all marriages. Most marriages still worked.

Today, generally speaking, a married woman will NOT have sex whenever asked, and will NOT let her husband have sex outside the marriage. She has, conveniently, combined the forced monogamy of the 1950’s with the “don’t tell me what to do!” of the 1970’s. And now, the divorce rate in most cities is around 62%. Now, officially, MOST marriages don’t work. And, of course, 82% of the time SHE is the one doing the divorcing.

And THAT is the system you as a man are signing up for if you get married.

E4
Worse, I have noticed that women today expect monogamy even if she acknowledges the relationship isn’t serious! I don’t know if you guys have run into this, but I certainly have. It’s when you’re dating a woman and she says “Now look, I don’t have time for anything serious in my life right now, I’m too busy with (whatever, her career, her school, her kids, etc) to do that. I want to date you, but I don’t want to get serious! So we AREN’T getting serious and you’re NOT allowed to start falling in love with me! Oh, and by the way, you can’t fuck other women.”

Good girls of the 1950’s and badass feminists of the 1970’s NEVER asked for a relationship like that. It was “serious and monogamous”, or “not serious but open”.

E5
Common Objection: “That’s because in the 1970’s people didn’t have to worry about STD’s! You can't just fuck all the people you want when you’re married or serious with someone nowadays! STD’s!”

Answer: This doesn’t mean your spouse/partner is out having sex with 10 other people all the time. It could be as few as just one other person, every once and a while. Also, without getting into huge statistical detail, if a condom is used correctly, and used 100% of the time, the chances of getting an STD is very low.

Follow-up Objection: “Oh, come on! I can’t trust my partner to always use a condom every time if they have sex with someone else!”

Answer: You’re in a marriage or serious relationship with a person you can’t trust? Oh, really? Then who’s the real idiot here?

F1
Monogamy creates DRAMA. Ever notice that when you’re dating someone, but haven’t had the big “exclusivity talk” yet, everything is wonderful? The time you spend with her is fantastic, 100% of the time. You never argue. She’s perfect! It’s like being in heaven.

Then you have the “exclusivity talk” and become “exclusive”. Ever notice that, suddenly, without warning almost, the drama starts? The nitpicking, the arguing, the jealously, the territorialness…all that crap.

Is this just some odd coincidence? Nope. It’s because in an completely exclusive relationship, both parties think they “own” each other, and thus have the “right” to boss each other around, to ask about where the other person was the other night, what they were doing, who was that person they were with, why didn’t you call me the other day, why didn’t you pick up the phone when I called, etc.

When two people are dating but not monogamous, this ownership dynamic (usually) doesn’t exist (at least not to the degree it does in an LTR), so the chances for drama are far reduced.

F2
Monogamy is a system where two people FORCE each other to adhere to each other’s “rules” (which is really fascinating, since these same two people are supposed to “love” each other and want to make each other “happy”). Violation of said rules leads to arguments and hurt feelings at best, the end of the relationship at worst. Since human beings are individuals, and since no two people are the same, people are going to have differences, and thus rules WILL be violated at some point. Then drama ensues.

When you are not monogamous, there are no rules, and therefore far, far less drama (extensively, extensively field tested, by the way).

F3
Common Objection: “If a man remains an alpha, you can eliminate most of that drama you’re talking about.”

Answer Number One: You can eliminate MOST of the drama. Not all. You can only eliminate ALL drama if the relationship is non-monogamous.

Answer Number Two: Your alpha behavior will only serve you in short-term monogamous LTR’s. In a long-term relationship or marriage, your alpha-ness will not save you (see all the info above).

F4
Everyone knows this, but it bears repeating, because it’s a key issue.

Generally speaking, women’s sex drives decline over time in a long-term LTR or marriage. Men’s sex drives, generally speaking, don’t decline.

Five years into a monogamous live-in LTR or marriage, he will still want to have sex 4 times a week. She won’t.

This is a major problem, for obvious reasons. See above about “women getting BORED” for more info on this.

Common Objection: “Not ALL women are like that! Some women are high-sex-drive forever!”

Answer: Correct. But ALL women say they’ll “always be into sex”, even though most won’t be. And here’s the critical point: YOU DON’T KNOW WHICH CATEGORY SHE IS IN WHEN YOU MARRY HER. You don’t find out which category she’s in until you’re WELL INTO THE MARRIAGE AND IT’S TOO LATE.

G1
My next argument is probably saddest. It really shows how scared and stupid MEN are…women would never tolerate such a system of monogamy, marriage, and divorce, if the roles were reversed.

If you really want to have some fun, try this sometime. Tell a woman the following story.

“A guy and girl are dating and super-duper serious. The guy comes to the woman one day with a piece of paper and says ‘Darling, I love you so much. Will you sign this legally binding contract that states that if I ever break up with you, you will pay me $400 a month for the next five years, and if you don’t you’ll go to prison?’ What do you think that woman would say? Of COURSE she would refuse. Not only that, she’d probably be insulted, WOULDN’T SHE? What if the guy then said “OMG, I can’t believe you! You are so horrible! Don’t you love me? Don’t you want to be with me? Don’t you value this relationship?”

Telling this story really hits home the silliness of women expecting men to marry them under the traditional system. THEY would never agree to a system like that. Then why should WE?

I am convinced that if women made more money then men, and had to pay men child support and alimony when the man left the marriage, things like alimony and child support would be abolished in a heartbeat. Women would never tolerate that shit. They would be out marching in the streets in front of the courthouse. They’d leave work early to vote for the proper politicians. It would get done…alimony, child support, communal property, no-fault divorce…all of that would be gone.

But sadly, men at large in society are either so dumb, so scared, or so locked into tradition, men tolerate it, and pay the price.

H1
There is literally nothing a confident man can get from marriage he cannot get by being unmarried. Literally nothing. This includes:

Wedding rings.
A wedding.
Changing her last name.
Living together.
Referring to each other as “husband” and “wife”.
Children (more on this below).
Shared medical insurance (via domestic partnership and various other legal means).
Life insurance.
Joint ownership of assets.
…and everything else.

Try to think of anything a confident man can ONLY receive if he’s legally married. Even one thing. You can’t. Thus, he incurs massive risk for zero reward. Of course women do receive something a man doesn’t…free money if the relationship doesn’t work out. Marriage is no longer a sacred union. Marriage today is relationship-insurance for the female.

H2
Common Objection: “There IS one thing a man doesn’t get unless he’s married! Commitment!”

Answer: If this were the 1950’s, that would be correct. But it’s the 21st century. Marriage is no longer a commitment. We live in a society where either person can get divorced for any reason at any time, and get a big pat on the back from friends and family when they do it (and even get PAID to do it if they’re female). And based on the high divorce rates (above), they DO get divorced, quite often. Marriage is no longer a commitment, and hasn’t been for several decades now.

I1
Now let’s talk about having children.

It has been said:

“OK, I agree with everything you’ve said about monogamy and marriage, but what about kids? I want to have children someday. Two parents out fucking everyone in town is no way to raise kids! Kids are best raised by a man and wife, committed to each other, and who live together. So even though you have a point, I’m going to be married anyway (or at least live with her in a committed monogamous relationship), because I want to have kids.”

First, let’s talk about whether or not to have kids at all, then let’s talk about how to properly raise kids, in light of what we’ve discussed regarding long-term monogamy’s failure rate.

I2
Because of the law today, and of society’s expectations today, a man SHOULD NOT have children unless he meets ALL of the following four criteria:

1. He fully understands the financial ramifications of doing so. This means hundreds of dollars a month for the next 20 years out of his wallet, even after he breaks up with the mother, with horrible consequences if he ever gets late or doesn’t pay, including the revoking of his driver’s license, garnishments, and actual jail time (yes, men have actually gone to jail for not paying child support).

2. He fully understands the fact that 20% to 60% of his freedom will vanish from his life, and stay gone, for the next 20 years or so. (Again, regardless if it ever “works out” with the mother of the child.)

3. He can afford children. That means he has regular income, and makes more money every month than he already needs to pay his own bills. He has carefully budgeted his income and expenses and has determined rationally, and mathematically that he is able to finically support a child (or children).

4. Despite fully understanding the above three items, he is still 100% desirous to have children, and is going into the situation fully informed with both eyes open.

(I, personally, did all four of the above things before I had my two children. I did the research, understood what the ramifications were, earned enough money, budgeted, and then I was ready. My children were not accidents that I “took responsibility for” and/or “tried to make work”. Both of my children were planned events.)

Some dipshit who has some girl he’s been seeing for 2 months come to him and say “Oops! I’m pregnant!” is NOT what I’m taking about here. Too many men make the “decision” to have children AFTER some chick they’ve been boinking has already told them she’s pregnant. The topic of birth control is beyond the scope of this discussion, but realize that many men who say they are “choosing” or have “chosen” to have kids, really have NOT “chosen” at all. The woman chose, and they went along with it.

I3
Alright, so let’s say you’ve met all four of the criteria above, and you still want to have kids.

Saying a man and wife who live together is the best way to raise children IS accurate. I fully, 100% agree with this, and the studies also verify this.

However, living under the same roof with the woman you love, raising your children:

Does not mean you must live together full time, all the time (though that is preferable).

Does not mean you must be legally married.

Does not mean you must be monogamous.

Does not mean you must jointly own finances or assets.

There is no reason you cannot raise fully healthy children if you live with a woman in an discreet OLTR (Open Long Term Relationship), where you and/or the woman can have discreet meaningless sex with other people (operating under certain ground rules) if the need arises in either one of you. This does not mean you and your “wife equivalent” are out fucking everyone in town, or that you are parading various women in front of your children, or that you’re having threesomes in your bedroom while your kids are in the next room. I said a discreet OLTR, not a typical OLTR, and not an MLTR. There are no stats on this, but I have personally seen more than one couple operate this way and it does work. They are happy, and their children are happy.

I4
Common Objection: “How do you KNOW that will work? How many people have field tested this? Are there any stats on this working?”

Answer: Due to societal programming, very few people have tried this system. So no, there are no large amounts of data on whether or not this “works”. But what are you comparing this system to? The answer is you’re comparing this system to long-term monogamy, which only has a 13% success rate (see above). How much worse can the discreet OLTR system of raising children actually BE? Again, remember what you are comparing things to when making an argument like that.


Now, were going to address all the various objections that are commonly given that we haven’t covered yet.

J1
Objection: “What about having someone care for you in your old age?”

Answer: If you’ve already read the rest of this, you know the answer already. The divorce rate is around 60% in most major cities. The odds are high that the person you marry will be divorced from you by the time you hit your old age, so marriage as a means of elder care is not a very smart move.

As much as men talk about it being a woman’s job to look hot and put out, it is YOUR job as a man is to make good money, and invest it wisely. In my opinion, every man should have at least a million dollars saved by the time he hits is mid 50’s, and I’m being nice when I say only a million. Your money will take care of you well in your old age, married or not.

You have FAR more control over how much money you will have as an old man then you have over whether or not some woman will still be with you by then.

K1
Objection: “I want to be long-term monogamous because I don’t want to worry about STD’s.”

Answer: It’s true that monogamy does provide a lower risk of STD’s than a poly lifestyle, but you’re forgetting about one thing: as stated above, the infidelity rate is very high. If your partner has sex with someone else while you’re “monogamous”, you are at risk for STD’s. Many people have gotten STD’s from their “monogamous” partners. I’ve seen this happen to other people more than once. The need for STD protection might be reduced in a monogamous relationship, but not removed.

Also, the STD issue does not remove anything we’ve discussed here about the mountains of other risks a man incurs if he gets married, or the drama and lack of freedom he experiences if he’s monogamous.

L1
Objection: “Not getting married and not having kids is selfish. I don’t want to be selfish forever.”

Answer: Why do you want to have kids? Because YOU want to have them. That’s SELFISH. Let’s be real here. You don’t want to get married or have kids because you want to help the world. C’mon. You want to get married and/or have kids because YOU want to do these things, for whatever reasons. THAT’S SELFISH.

This “selfish” stuff is actually traditional and religious programming in your head that you should reframe and remove, as soon as possible.

This gets into a much bigger topic, but ALL human action is selfish, it’s only a question of rational selfishness or irrational selfishness. Read up on some Ayn Rand or Robert Ringer.

M1
Objection: “Having sex with multiple people is immature. Eventually you need to grow up.”

Answer: Ah, you’re HALF right. Let me re-state for you. Having sex with multiple partners in a reckless fashion is immature. Having sex with multiple partners in a methodical, adult way is not. For example, things like having rampant sex with hundreds of complete strangers is immature. And having sex with lots of people with no birth control or STD projection is immature. But I endorse none of these things. I endorse having sex with multiple partners after a certain amount of screening these potential partners, then using all appropriate STD and birth control protection, and not making any rash decisions regarding long-term relationships, commitment, children, or finances.

If you STILL think monogamy is more “mature”, then this is a purely emotional argument, based on societal programming. You have no facts to back this up. No one has ever explained, logically and rationally, why having sex with two or more people is a sign of immaturity, or why having sex with only one person is a sign of maturity.

N1
Objection: “I once had a monogamous LTR and it was GREAT!”

Answer: Did it last longer than 3 years?

O1
Objection: “Well, MY marriage or LTR isn’t confining or filled with drama. Mine’s different!”

Answer: Is it under 3 years so far?

But OK, OK, let’s get more specific. If you’re in a long-term monogamous relationship you have a number of “rules” that you must follow from your GF/wife regarding your behavior whenever in the presence of the opposite sex. Including, but not limited to, hanging out with them, when and where to touch them, what topics you can bring up to them, how to dance with them, when/if/how you flirt with them, and on, and on, and on.

If you are monogamous, I don’t care how you structure the monogamy, you are confined, and you are not free. She owns your balls…at least to SOME degree.

But it gets even worse than that…

In a monogamous relationship/marriage, your GF/wife has the ability to REMOVE sex out of your life whenever they want. All they have to do is say “no”, and it’s time to either sit there with blue balls or jerk off…because you’re not allowed to have sex with anyone else. This is one of the big things that throw men for a loop once they’ve been married for about two years. It’s not that you can only fuck one woman the rest of your life (that alone might actually be OK), it’s the fact that she can REMOVE sex from your life completely if she chooses to. And if you do anything she doesn’t like, she’s likely to, eventually. And the stats bear this out.

P1
Objection, usually from women: “Oh my God. Is sex really that important?”

Answer: Yes.

Q1
Objection: “Why do I have to choose? Why can’t I have it both ways? Why can’t I have it ALL?”

Answer: This is a non sequitur. How can you be monogamous and not be monogamous? You can’t do it. You ARE or you AREN’T.

Also, you may be implying having a “monogamous” relationship and then having secret affairs, which I do NOT endorse AT ALL. (I personally have never cheated on a woman in my entire life once I committed to exclusivity with her.)

Remember back in the late 80’s and early 90’s when women started to want to “have it all”? “I want to be a high-powered career woman AND be a great supermom AND be physically fit!!!” Remember that? How well did that work out? According to surveys, women are the most unhappy they’ve been in decades. Society had to quietly and gently tell women that this “have it all” shit wasn’t possible. You do ONE THING WELL, the rest you do OK (hopefully).

Having a “monogamous” relationship/marriage while being a “player” is just as silly. And just as destructive.

R1
Objection: “Oh, you’re just pissed about all of this because you got divorced. You’re jaded and biased now. Just because you fucked up doesn’t mean that WE will. You’re just pissed off because you don’t know how to be monogamous and make it work.”

Answer: Realize that if this is your first thought after I provide you with these facts, that means you have nothing to respond with other than to try to find fault with me personally. This is because deep down, you know I’m right.

That being said, it is fair for me to relay my relationship history. I have had three monogamous relationships in my life, and all three were, for the most part, good. The first one was in my early 20’s. I was dating a woman for about a year, completely exclusively. It was a fun relationship and I have nothing but fond memories about it. There was a little drama from her occasionally, but no big deal.

My second was when I was married in my mid-twenties. The woman I marred already had a 5 year-old son, who became my son, and we had a second child shortly after, my daughter. My marriage lasted 9 years, the first 7 of which were good. I loved her and she loved me. I never cheated on her, and to my knowledge neither did she.

Like most American wives, she started backing off on the sex about a year into the marriage, and within 3 years I had usually had to “fight her” for sex. We also tended to argue about how the best way to raise the kids was, and financial issues (again, mostly related to the kids). Other than these items, our marriage was quite good and I was more or less happy.

It deteriorated in the 7th year, ending in the 9th. Our divorce was not a “horrible” divorce. It was pretty standard. We never argued over the kids or visitation, just over money. We eventually came to an agreement that both of us feel pretty good about. That was 3 years ago as of this writing, and we no longer argue, ever. I bear no ill will toward my ex-wife. On the contrary, the more I’ve learned about women, relationships, marriage, and divorce, the more I realize she wasn’t actually doing anything wrong, she was just acting like all women act in the modern era. How could I “blame” her for that? I was the one dumb enough to get married in the first place. I have only myself to blame.

And I did get two fantastic children out of the deal, which is what I always wanted. I see my children often, as in weekly.

My third monogamous relationship came about a year after my divorce. It only lasted about 4 or 5 months, and it was perfect in every way. We were totally in love, and we fit each other hand-in-glove. It ended when she had to move away for work. It was great while it lasted, but I know a big reason for that was because it only lasted 5 months or so. We never got anywhere near the 3 year-mark, where likely she would have started getting BORED.

So that’s my “monogamous relationship history”. Note I have had MANY non-monogamous relationships where I have had virtually zero problems, zero drama, zero restrictions on my freedom, and zero risk to my finances. They all been fantastic. Every. Single. One.

Now, let me re-iterate. NONE of my personal history, positive or negative, changes the facts I’ve been describing.

S1
Objection: “I can’t stand the thought of my GF/BF/spouse having sex with another guy/girl!”

Answer: Jealousy is a big topic, and beyond the scope of this discussion. I will say that I do understand…we’ve all felt jealous at one time or another. But understand that jealousy comes from three places: 1) bullcrap societal programming, 2) territorial caveman crap in your DNA that no longer has any relevance in the modern world, and 3) your own personal insecurities and self-esteem issues, likely gained from negative childhood experiences.

Guess what? All three of these things are BAD. Bad, bad, bad. All three of these things are hurting you, not only in your relationships but in other areas of your life as well. All three of these things you must work on and solve. Seek counseling if you need to. But don’t assume just because you feel something its because you’re doing something wrong. Sometimes it is. But often it isn’t.

T1
Objection: “I’m an Alpha! I can still be long-term monogamous and be an Alpha!”

Answer: No, you can’t. It is NOT POSSIBLE to be fully alpha once you have promised monogamy to a woman. NOT. POSSIBLE.

That being said, let me tell you what IS possible:

1. You CAN remain alpha (to a degree) by fucking other women behind her back. This is not a system I recommend, but I know many men who do this. And yeah, they’re pretty alpha.

2. You CAN retain alpha-like behaviors in the other aspects of the relationship outside of the monogamy angle. Things like not taking her shit, not kissing her ass, not exhibiting jealousy, not spending a lot of money on her, etc. However, you are still going beta yourself the INSTANT you promise to not get sexual with other women. It’s unavoidable.

This is because once you promise monogamy to a woman, you give her the automatic power to:

1. Completely remove sex from your life any time she disapproves of your behavior, as I already stated above. (You say something mean to her sister, so she doesn’t fuck you, and you can’t fuck anyone else, so sex has been removed from your life, at least temporarily. Time to go jerk off to porn).

2. Ask you constantly the why you were with other women, and the nature of your relationship with other women you spend time with. As annoying and silly as this jealousy is, She HAS THE RIGHT to ask these questions because YOU promised her monogamy.

3. Give you drama. Once you promise monogamy, she believes, often correctly, that she’s “got you” and she can give you all kinds of drama and you will STILL STAY with her (and, let me say again, she’s usually RIGHT about this). Yes, can exhibit alpha-like behaviors when dealing with this drama, but she’s is still in a position to give it to you. And she will again and again.

Being 100% alpha and monogamous is mutually exclusive. If you disagree, then answer this specific question: How can you maintain the relationship AND be an alpha when she's angry with you, absolutely refuses sex, and you can’t go fuck anyone else? (And if your answer is “I’d dump her ass!”, then you’ve just proven my entire point…your monogamy FAILED.)

U1
Objection (or rather, a question): “OK, OK, you’ve converted me. I have seen the light. You’re right. But I still…um…kinda want to get married. Is there any way I can get married and still avoid these pitfalls?”

Answer: I’ve you’ve read everything above, you know it’s silly for a man to get legally married, so I stand my ground in recommending against it.

However, if you just can’t control yourself and must get married, make sure you do the following three things:

1. Spend some serious money on a divorce attorney and write up a GOOD, SOLID prenup, and have her sign it. Make sure she signs it well more than six months before the wedding, preferably a year (to prevent her from later saying she was “under duress”), and make sure she signs it while being witnessed by a judge (to prevent her from saying later that she “didn’t understand what she was signing”, since the judge will literally explain every sentence to her, and then sign off on it himself).

2. Do NOT promise her monogamy. At best, promise her “conditional monogamy”, where you are monogamous as long as she behaves a certain way. But don’t promise that you’ll be monogamous “no matter what”. Make sure this promise is in writing, with both of your signatures, and witnessed by a judge (so later she can’t come back with “I never said you could fuck other women!”)

3. Know, in your mind and in your heart, that most likely, this marriage will not last forever. Most likely, despite your love and best efforts, this woman will divorce you some day. Make sure you remember this whenever you make any long-term plans (like investing, purchasing homes, retirement, etc.)

If you do these things, you remove a woman’s two greatest weapons away from her. 1) The “do what I say or I’ll divorce you and take half your money” weapon, and 2) The “do what I say or you’re not getting any tonight!” weapon.

I still would avoid all of this and just not get long-term monogamous, but if you must get married, that’s how to do it.

V1
And, of course, the final objection, my favorite of them all, and by far the most common one: “I can make it work because I’M DIFFERENT.”

Answer: That’s exactly what the other 87% said. They all thought they were different too.

But I’ll be more specific. Let’s talk a minute about the 13% of people who do actually make it work.

Speaking VERY generally, there are three kinds of people. Independent, interdependent, and dependent.

Independent people are strong, high-maintenance, picky people who like everything in their life exactly the way they like it. If anything is off, they get unhappy real quick. (I am one of these people) They represent somewhere between 15% and 25% of the population.

Interdependent people are somewhat capable people who are only picky about one or two areas in their life. As long as those one or two areas are going smoothly, the rest of their life they care little about. They’re reasonably flexible and are easily led. They represent about 45% of the population.

Dependent people are fucked up people who need counseling. Losers, drug addicts, people with uncontrollable tempers, alcoholics, sex addicts, violent people, people who are massively overweight, the man who beats his wife, the wife who gets beat and always defends her husband, these are all examples of dependent people. They’re people with “issues”, completely dependent on other people or substances for validation of one kind or another (some of these people can, with counseling and a lot of work, move out of the dependent category and become independent or interdependent people…but most are this way permanently, as a way of life). Represents about 20% of the population, give or take.

When does traditional marriage have shot at working?

When an INTERDEPENDENT person marries and ANOTHER INTERDEPENDENT person.

Then, they have a real shot. The system of lifetime, monogamous, traditional marriage was designed for low-maintenance, simple, non-fucked-up, interdependent people. (But even THESE people can still get divorced…they just are the ones who have a decent shot at it.)

Now yes, that means dependent people and independent people are, generally speaking, pretty much screwed if they want a lifetime traditional marriage in the modern era. Look, I’m sorry. But that’s the reality.

If any other marital combination other than the interdependent/interdependent occurs, the marriage WILL fail. We’ve all seen examples of this.

If two dependent people marry (as is often the case) the marriage will be horrible, and usually quite short.

If an interdependent person marries a dependent person, the marriage will be a shitload of work while the interdependent person hangs in there to “try to make it work”, before it finally crashes and burns.

If an interdependent person marries an independent person (a very common situation, probably the most typical), the marriage will be GREAT…at least for a while. The marriage may last well past seven or eight years, even longer!…but at some point, the independent person will feel too stifled and the interdependent person will get too resentful, and they will drift apart. Then comes the divorce or affairs.

If, god forbid, two independent people marry (sometimes happens but not often), the marriage will have a very stale, almost antiseptic feel to it. They will both have all kinds of “ground rules” to the relationship. They’ll seem fine...until the atom bombs go off. We all know how women love to follow specific, agreed-upon ground rules in relationships, don’t we? Anyway, this particular combination has the ugliest, must brutal divorces.

What about a independent/dependent combination? This doesn't happen...most independent people can't stand to even be in the presence of dependent people, much less would ever want to date or marry one.

And finally, yes, if two interdependent people marry, and work really hard, and don’t experience any calamities (like major financial trouble, or the death of one of their children, etc), then yes, they can be married happily ever after just like in Disney fairy tales.

How often does that happen? More importantly, are YOU interdependent? Think on this. And don’t bullshit yourself.

W1
Final Note.

It’s your life, not mine. Do whatever you want. Just realize we live in a cause and effect universe, and the best way to predict effect is by studying probability and reality. Your feelings, your religion, your upbringing, your parents, your fantasies, your biological desires for children or security, your desire to conform and look good for others…none of these things change the hard facts and realities of the society and era in which you currently live. I wish it did.

Good luck.

_________________
Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

Finding out yourself>letting a thread dictate your way of living

I agree but people should know what to probably expect.

_________________
Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

That long term commitment is tough, especially in our social climate.

Duh!

OH NO!!!! SOMETHING I JUST READ ON A FORUM HAS GIVEN ME AN IDENTITY CRISIS!!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOO.................

Anyway, thanks for this. Cool article.
Yes, true. But, honestly, it's a pain in the ass to figure out everything yourself, and so I figure I take the guy on his word with a skeptic mindset, and explore the idea for myself. I'll go and fuck up a monogamous relationship and then everything's good.

_________________
Don't hate, just dominate.

Agree with this

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRYNYb30nxU[/youtube]

Wow, this information re-enforces a lot of what i already thought/believed.

I see the independent/interdependent/dependent people all the time and it made 100% sense to me.. I was with an independent person.. And i am interdependent.. the whole ordeal was painful..

I've often wondered how you take back the "no sex tonight" card.. Girls have seriously developed a fool proof way to control the relationship.. I watch my friend deal with his relationship of 4 years.. he just doesn't give a fucck.. does what he wants and she has learned to follow suit.

Most important thing to remember "the person who cares the least has the most control"

He however has gone through a long period of time with little to no sex... Girl's can be trained to a certain extent but it requires patience, luck, and a fucck load of time.

All in all.. he's still not happy..

Such is life eh... pity it's become this way..





Still wanna get married tho.

This has to be sticky. Fucking Awesome Post!!! I agree that learning for yourself can be better. But try and tell the guy paying alimony that lost his house and reputation to the woman he was totally faithful to for 5 years. I suspect he would have liked to know the chances of it working were so slim.

Also, on the STDs thing.

AIDS: whilst AIDS is still a massive problem in the united states and third world, most other G20 countries have controlled the problem for the most part. Australia has fewer than 500 sufferers. The UK has one of the lowest per capita rates of AIDS in the world. The United Kingdom Health Services worked out that if a straight male had regular intercourse with a different british woman every day for a year without any protection, the chances of him contracting the HIV virus is greater than 1,000 to 1. So you slap a condom on and it becomes even less likely. Seriously, if you're a guy and circumcised and use a condom and have straight vaginal and oral sex, YOU WILL NOT CATCH AIDS. The chances are so slim you are more likely to be murdered by a family member.

Chlamydia: This is one of the most wide spread STDs cos you can catch it easy. Sucks. I've had it. If a chick has it and a condom tares and you're in there for 5 seconds you are a chance at catching it. I've had it, no big deal, it's one pill and it's cured. Easier than any flu or cold and not that serious for men.

Herpes: This one sucks, cos it's a life sentence and 1 in 4 people have it. Luckily it's actually not as contagious as the figures make it appear. Use condoms religiously and you'll be in good stead.

Syphilis: Not nearly as common in the western world as it once was. And no where near as dangerous. People are always scare of this one for some reason especially as it's been very treatable since WW1.

Seriously guy, you are more at risk of dying in a car crash than you are of contracting a life threatening STD when single if you use condoms. And the problem is, we never use condoms with our girlfriends because they're on birth control so if they cheat and catch something (women are far more at risk of all STDs especially AIDS) you will probably catch it off them.

_________________
Even the most naturally gifted can learn to become better.

Great post.

Two small clarifications about the evolutionary biology and psychology.

You say men are programmed to procreate to increase the population of the species as a whole. This is a common fallacy. No individual performs any action for the good of the species. The only adaptive behaviours are those that increase the frequency of that individuals GENES relative to the population, (as excellently explained in The Selfish Gene by Dawkins). Thus, behaviours that would actually decrease the population of the species, such as killing, or hoarding food, may actually be adaptive overall and thus would increase in frequency with time.

However, this does NOT mean that there cannot exist a genetic basis for altruism. An altruistic act is usually one in which my investment in energy is low, but the value gained by the person receiving is high, e.g. if I only have to walk a metre to save a drowning baby from a pond. The logic for why a gene could code for this behaviour, given the fact that genes are fundamentally selfish and thus will not program the individual to expend energy unless it receives some benefit in terms of fitness, is based on kinship. Altruism towards family members makes sense because those individuals are likely to share the same genes as me, thus by expending energy to help them, I am statistically likely to be increasing the fitness of my genes.

_________________
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great article.

very objectively put forth for such a subjective topic.

good job!

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

summary of this topic :we're pretty much fucked

But remember,even though humanity has evolved so much,i think the suffering will never end.

Why it's hard to be a man:

prehistoric age:
you could be the one killed with rocks/by animals/who knows what

OR

you could be the alpha guy,in charge of the group and doing the killing

Later...

be the slave that washed greek ass each day and dies after suffering for all his life

OR

you could be the greek cool guy,who has the money to buy slaves,and does whatever he wants

Later...

You could be the black slave

OR

you could be the one who has the slaves...

So that brings me to the truth.Reality is alwajs fucked up,and things will never be perfect.In this world you can be the one doing the fucking or the one getting fucked...it has been done before,and it will never stop.Don't think that with all this information humanity will evolve,that's a fairytale too...we're still stupid animals.

tell me one country in Europe that is satisfied.Germany lost so much,russia lost teritory.Even if Romania(the country i'm from) got some land back from Hungaria,we're still fucked with stupid politicians and almost everyone treating us like the dumpster of Europe.

So yes,we as a species are fucked.You have to move on and die one day,hopefully you have build something for those who come after you!

'il rather wash greek ass each day than being stuck in a marriage i don't want.....

too many stupid people have power .. that is why we fail as species ...


national debt of USA : 14.288.136.907,868 $ .. 14 trillion in general lol ....
george W bush .... invading iraq ... fail... who did fund this ? let me think .. ah yes ! tax payers.

Obama ... giving billions to libya and egypt to establish a democracy .. even bigger fail.... they don't even need it, libya and egypt have oil and pyramids , USA has mcdonalds ... total fail.

bill clinton getting his dicked sucked by monica .... actually i don't think this is FAIL lol.. he makes a woman suck his dick and in the end admits it... i would really vote for this guy , at least he get his dick sucked.

even the smart people seems to be total retard ... AFC behaviour even reaches the so called smartest leaders on the planet.. giving more - being nice while fucking yourself up.

human species will be extinct when we run out of oil ... it will be total chaos ... countries worldwide waging wars for oil.....
since we don't have any oil anymore we cannot manufacture make-up ... worldwide men refuse to fuck woman because they turn out to look like shit without make-up. AFC dudes will fuck ugly woman anyway alphas will get rooted out ... planet will be stuck with people that are even more stupid.

africa will turn out to be the best developed country .. because it cannot get any worse... all western countries only can get worse.... at least rape is free in africa. in western countries you have to pay money to rape someone - isn't that a paradox ? how about i pay you with '' im not taking your life '' instead of money.

this all will cause PUA marketing to go broke ... you do not have to use game anymore , this will cause a further increase in the US national debt ... wallstreet will crash again .. but hey - at least i got my microwave and my burger.

humanity will not evolve .. maybe only 0,005 % or the world population will evolve ... a few thousand. A large part of the world population will die .. Most people will die in vain - a terrible and violent death by eating too much fastfood. some will not die because they don't have any brain activity anyway. politicians keep spreading terror and misinformation ... democracy is just another way to gain total control and nobody will notice ... everyone will sit at home jerking off by videos of pornstars getting jizzed in the face by multiple men - pornstars who have unhealthy issues - probably abused and misused over the years - and we jerk off on it.... don't worry they still like sex ..all woman do.

what can we do .. if you cut off your balls you will be a woman , if you can't beat them you join em ? that doesn't make sense ? one country in europe that is satisfied ?.... probably my neigthbours hard disk since its full of porn.
but we are .. all people on this forum ... i mean we get woman .. we get laid and try to fuck as many woman as possible with out PUA skills... isn't this a contribution ?

im also fazed why stand up is talking so much about STDs .. it gives me the creeps , why don't we all assume everyone is having aids.. problem solved - there is no problem since everyone is having it, it must be a cultural thing right ? but it's true that the risk of you ( anyone reading ) being a dumbass is probably higher than the chance of contracting aids. maybe that condom should be pulled over your head.

monogamy doesn't exist .. it's an illusion .. guys crying and rolling on the floor because their girlfriend has cheated on them , wtf ? .. did she ever told you she isn't going to cheat ? did you let her sign a liflong contract of not cheating ? woman look at other men a year or so in the relationship , why would you even marry at all ? marriage is just a ancient ritual which comes from hunders if not thousands of years aho when people thought the wordl was flat. you know why people married then ? because if your wife cheats on you , you could swoop down the hills with your 2 men army and behead her and the guy she fucked.

marriage and other commitments do not work in a sociey where woman have more power than men.... period ...
definition of marriage : the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.

wtf is this vague description .. the whole context of marriage should be changed .. it should be : the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision be monogamous and not to have external relationships with other concious beings. ironic i mensioned the pornstar before ... well if you marry a pornstar you know they aren't going to cheat on you because you already knew she is fucking other guys before you got into the relationship right .. lol .. ironic tho
to me marriage is just a business contract ... they give you sex and you buy them make-up and shoes.
funny .. i always get bored after the first month of the relationship...woman need to know that most men will start to hate their f*cking guts after a few months. are their good relationships? .. yes of course .. im not here to spill black oil over purple glasses but lets be honest .. most relationship at least the majority does suck. this is why i never understand why people marry.. they already live together .. it's already boring so why make it even more boring ? when i was 16 i already hated the fact that my mom is always around .. let alone my girlfiend... terrible. well all marriages i know that were good ended after 3 years , all marriages i know where people are still together are boring .. just plain boring ... terrible ... their boringness extends to their furniture and the way they talk. and nobody is honest about it .. they know their marriage sucks but they are so f*cking needy that they aren't honest to themselfs. the only marriages that really are good are people who are together for many years and aren't married lol.

lets face it .. once you marry it becomes boring because the woman have ZERO % fear of losing you , she knows your stuck to her. in PU the reason why woman are not bored is because they can easily lose you , you are indifferent and you don't care the woman likes the challenge and tensions. You shouldn't get married if you cannot make your marriage challenging PERIOD. all woman like challenge ..everyone who is good with woman and has alot of experience under their belt will confirm this .. i believe it's hardwired in their brains since woman are more emotional than man......

most soaps ( tvseries ) even tho fictional are actually good models on how to keep your marriage challenging ... always shit is happening which is ruining their marriage - there is always this tension where they get challenged and where their marriage get challenged .... EMOTIONS ARE THE SPICE OF LIVE... NO EMOTIONS IS NO LIFE .. CHALLENGE AND ADVENTURE GIVE EMOTIONS... WOMAN EMOTIONAL CREATURE HAS EMOTIONAL NEED

B -a x y = Z

meet my familair fictional character from as the world turns.... yes ok i admit i watch wuss TV soaps allright...just to make it easier to read il will mark it:

Jack Snyder came to Oakdale in 1997 to investigate James Stenbeck. After helping to put Stenbeck behind bars, he decided to stay in town and got a job at the Oakdale PD. Jack also got reacquainted with his family and helped his cousin, Holden Snyder, in the search for his daughter. Not long after arriving in town, Jack went with Holden to Montana. There he met his Achilles' heel, Carly Tenney. Jack and Carly didn't get along at first; in fact they couldn't stand each other. However, despite all their arguing, there was lots of chemistry between them. Their true feelings for each other became apparent when they investigated arsonist/dirty cop Teague. During the investigation, Jack and Carly got trapped in a cabin where they grew closer and discovered that they had feelings for one another. After returning to Oakdale, Jack wanted to continue the relationship slowly; however Carly was desperate to get married and she dumped Jack to marry Hal Munson.

Reeling from his breakup with Carly, Jack was all set to leave town when he met Julia Lindsey. While helping Julia escape from her controlling fiancé, he fell in love with her. In the meantime, Jack found out the truth about Carly's marriage to Hal—she would inherit a huge trust fund from her sister, Rosanna Cabot, if she married a man and had a baby by him by the time the year was out. Disgusted, Jack told Carly to come clean with Hal or he'd completely walk out of her life. In the end, Hal learned the truth himself and divorced her. Luckily for Carly, she got Dr. John Dixon (who she thought impregnated her with donated sperm) to marry her and, soon after, with the assistance of Jack and Julia, she gave birth to a son, Parker in December 1998. Soon after, Jack's relationship with Julia ended when he learned that she lied to him about killing David Stenbeck, and also because of interference from Carly. Even though Jack tried to avoid Carly and deny his feelings for her, something about her kept pulling him back. Eventually, long buried feelings rose to the surface and they made love. He dumped Carly again, soon after, when he found out that she lied about her son's paternity, Hal not John was the baby's father.

On one occasion, Carly was kidnapped and taken to another country. Jack fought to find her and get her back. She was given a serum that would age her quickly, so by the time she was rescued she had aged quite a bit. But that didn’t stop Jack, who held a reluctant Carly in his arms, caring for what was inside more than out. Carly wasn’t so embarrassed and let Jack love her. Eventually, Carly was given a reverse serum that brought her looks back to where they were when she left. Jack treated her no different, and she felt safe and secure in his arms.

The night before Jack and Carly were going to get married, they had a huge argument over her relationship with Craig Montgomery. Jack didn’t approve of them spending so much time together. Carly was angry when she left, and went to her office and started drinking to calm herself. Mike Kasnoff showed up while Carly was drinking. As they sat there and talked, Carly found comfort in Mike's arms. They made love. The next day, Jack and Carly made up but she never told him about the affair - until she had to. Carly found herself pregnant, but she wasn’t sure if it was Mike’s baby or Jack’s. She went to Montana to get away. Jack followed her, just in time to help with the birth. Carly had a little girl who she named Sage. They renewed their vows and found out later that Sage was Jack’s.

Carly’s cousin Molly Conlan was in town. She had a mobster chasing her. When he was caught at Jack and Carly’s house, Jack came to arrest him. He called for back up, but Molly was so upset at his presence that she insisted that Jack take him out of the house. Jack decided to take him in his car. Carly begged him not to, but he couldn’t bear to see Molly upset. On the way to the police department, Jack’s car went over the bridge. Jack’s body was not in the car. Everyone gave up on the search eventually, but not Carly. She searched until she found Jack. He had amnesia and was married to a woman who was the nurse who took care of him in the hospital. Julia had a son named JJ and they were one big happy family. Carly got Jack to come back to Oakdale, and once he was there, she had him court ordered to live with her instead of Julia. Jack was torn. He finally got his memory back and let Julia down easy. She sought comfort in his cousin, Holden. Carly and Jack were glad to have things back to normal. Tragically, Julia was killed by her ex-husband and JJ was awarded to Jack, since he was the only "real dad" he knew.

Jack and Carly finally divorced in 2006, and after grieving for a while, Carly found herself falling in love with Simon Frasier. The two got into trouble and Jack had to arrest them both. After a struggle, Simon and Carly got away, and Jack took the kids to the farm to stay.

Jack and Katie began dating and he quickly fell for the bubbly blonde. Carly returned to town, putting a wrench in the works and then JJ was kidnapped. Together, Jack and Carly tracked down JJ and brought him home; along the way, Jack began having feelings for Carly again. Nearly unconscious after an explosion, he said, "I love you, Carly," within Katie's hearing (Carly wasn't there). When they returned to Oakdale, Jack decided to put the past behind him and proposed to Katie! Katie accepted and Jack rushed the wedding forward and they were married in a few days.

Just after the wedding, Jack got devastating news: Carly was dying from a brain lesion! He put his life - and his honeymoon - on hold to care for her! Jack was falling for Carly again and asked her to marry him. On the day of their wedding, Carly told him that she was misdiagnosed and had lied about it. He left her at the altar but it was too late to save his relationship with Katie.

He took the kids from Carly and tried to leave her in his past. Janet Ciccone arrived in town and began an affair with Jack. The closer they got, though, the more Jack realized his feelings for Carly weren't in the past. Around this time he learned of Carly's affair with Holden and was livid. Rather than focus on Carly, though, Jack tried to save Parker from a bad relationship with Liberty Ciccone - and a livid Brad! When Brad accused Parker of raping Liberty, Jack and Carly pulled together to clear their son. At Alison and Aaron's wedding, Jack and Carly talked about the past but neither could admit they still had feelings for one another. Janet realized that Jack's feelings weren't in the past and moved out of the farm.

''despite their argueing there was alot of chemistry between them '' who can identify with this ? cocky conversations with woman ? tension and challenge ? this all sounds familiar.... 2 persons both are authentic and they challenge eachothers reality.'' during the investigation they got trapped in a cabin where they discovered they had feelings for eachother ..'' well they basically got laided... it was exciting and challenging - investigating this crooked cop and getting in all these adventures.

But when they got home jack wanted to continue the relationship - now it is getting boring so she dumps jack to marry some other guy. she loves the dude ... she is attracted to him i mean cmon ...the beginning of the relationship was exciting... after a while it become boring and she noticed.

lesson : never expect someone to go into a relationship

''Reeling from his breakup with Carly, Jack was all set to leave town when he met Julia Lindsey. While helping Julia escape from her controlling fiancé, he fell in love with her. '' julia .. stuck in a boring marriage .. the more you control the more boring it becomes. if you try to control woman it will work against you , you might as well cut off your balls and give them to her at her birthday. anyway back to our investigation of human interactions ... jack who actually became boring in his relationship with carly actually hooked up with julia ... way to go i mean f*ck needyness and AFC right ? he helped her escaping from her controlling fiance AKA the boring needy dude who makes life too simple. Jack fell in love with julia...ok lets sumarize because i this sweet gummy bear reality sucks.

I've seen julia, she is hot, good personality and is deep down inside a crazy bitch and perfectly fuckable- i don't like to rate people with numbers but i defenitly like to rate her if you know what i mean. anyway i was 9 or 10 when i watched these episodes and julia is the first fictional character i mentally fucked. she is my first jerk off.. memorable... i cannot blame jack for fucking her... he was stuck in his comfort zone and so was she , The more comfort you have in life the more boring it becomes .. the more discomfort the more challenge and emotions.
sitting at home jerking off on fictional character of tv series is nice but it doesn't get you anywhere regarding excitment and challenge - it's plain boring over a period of time.... going out and interacting with woman is discomfort and exciting .. it gives emotions.. no superficial quick fixes - just thrilling experiences.

julia also landed in a mental hospital a few years later ... i still jerked off when i thought of her lol .... anyway everything that looks nice or high value should not to be trusted directly sometimes it's better to use the right hand and a good ol tube of lotion.

''Jack found out the truth about Carly's marriage to Hal—she would inherit a huge trust fund from her sister, Rosanna Cabot, if she married a man and had a baby by him by the time the year was out. '' .. ohhh exciting.. alot of AFC dudes watching the soaps think woman fuck guys for money .. it's not about the money ot your house or whatever you posses. To her it was the thought of money the excitment and the emotions this challenged presented... everytime she felt halls his cock between her legs she felt emotional excitement... not because she is fucking him but because the challenge of getting this money. she dumped jack for a reason so it better be good right ?

'' Disgusted, Jack told Carly to come clean with Hal or he'd completely walk out of her life. In the end, Hal learned the truth himself and divorced her. Luckily for Carly, she got Dr. John Dixon (who she thought impregnated her with donated sperm) to marry her and, soon after, with the assistance of Jack and Julia, she gave birth to a son '' what we do not know that Hall is jacks best friend lol that sounds familair right ? il bet alot of woman suffer from unconcious desire for revenge because their husband kept their into their boring lifes too long. carly is hot as well .. hall did a good job fucking her but the guy actually ratted out his best friend... dr. dixon is just another AFC chump who fell for a wall of cunningly applied make-up.

to make a long story short carly and jack got attracted again after jack found out that julia lied about killing someone , regular stuff .. happens everyday. anyway here is the point ..dishonesty.. if a girl does not know if you are being real or not she might feel more attracted...'' the challenge to find out if he's real about it''. the point is dishonesty ...when the marriage or relationship sucks and everyone knows it except the husband and wife aren't admitting it to eachother. what they are doing is lying to eachother and since woman can read subcommunication she will ''feel'' like he is lying to her. not admitting your relationships sucks created distrust ... period ... when most couples seek help they are on the verge of getting a divorce just because they aren't honest about it. people always face forced honesty on the last moment when they feel the wall.

''On one occasion, Carly was kidnapped and taken to another country. Jack fought to find her and get her back. She was given a serum that would age her quickly, so by the time she was rescued she had aged quite a bit. But that didn’t stop Jack, who held a reluctant Carly in his arms, caring for what was inside more than out. Carly wasn’t so embarrassed and let Jack love her. Eventually, Carly was given a reverse serum that brought her looks back to where they were when she left. Jack treated her no different, and she felt safe and secure in his arms''

basicly a DLV... jack is totally afc here .. i mean she fucked his best friend and got impregnated by him - that aside-. the process of adventure and challenge is repeating again. What creates a bond is the experience you have with the other person and how you related to her through the experience.. some form of emotional-discomfortable relation. the emotions you give through the experience is what makes woman attracted to you.. wether it be negative or positive... guys no .. im not talking about powdering your nose with white powder from a asscrack.
marriage is comfort and security.. it's boring to a high degree over a long period of time unless you really work on it to make it exciting.

carly feeling safe and secure will sound to a chode like she's digging him ... this has nothing to with attraction. woman just like it when men take away their embaressment .. in a relationship woman always will aks you question on how they look , if they wearing the right dress.. you know what im talking about. the anoying female craving for confident confirmation....saying her she looks good won't work anyway you only say that because you are into a relationship with her. just throw her on the couch and f*ck her brains out instead of telling it's ok - this sounds more honest.

''The night before Jack and Carly were going to get married, they had a huge argument over her relationship with Craig Montgomery. Jack didn’t approve of them spending so much time together. Carly was angry when she left, and went to her office and started drinking to calm herself. Mike Kasnoff showed up while Carly was drinking. As they sat there and talked, Carly found comfort in Mike's arms. They made love. The next day, Jack and Carly made up but she never told him about the affair - until she had to. Carly found herself pregnant, but she wasn’t sure if it was Mike’s baby or Jack’s. She went to Montana to get away. Jack followed her, just in time to help with the birth. Carly had a little girl who she named Sage. They renewed their vows and found out later that Sage was Jack’s.
''
again he tried to control her.. woman do not like if you control them , if you are controlling a woman you probably do it because you are AFC. If you are AFC you will blow it and you will give away control to the woman - guess what woman do not want control ? actually woman hate responsibility...if you don't take responsiblity she will do the instant flake. everything external you are trying to control you are doing out of insecurity ... marriage is total control .. ''she is my wife '' my ''husband''. marriage is a subtle way to get control over one another - guess what both the woman and the dude want control over eachother - probably very enlightened individuals lol. it's a double sided agreement between to people to take control over their ''soulmate'' but in reality they should have controlled themself. Craig by the way is totally alpha .. amogs other peope . total indifferent .. the opposite of jack.

carly left all angry and start drinking .. one day before their marriage right ? actually last year she was alcoholic so their could be a correlation there. Anyway she fucked mike , another hot shot who thinks he is tom cruise in topgun. well he sure flied his jumbo jet in her ass... carly basicly found comfort in mike his arms. He did not understand her .. you guys all think wow he must understand how woman think , actually he does not understand.

he understands how woman feel .. if you want to interact to a woman you must know how she feels. in order to really understand a woman you must allow emotions in a more flued rhytm. Woman are emotional creatures .. woman hate logic , often when you bring up logical subject you will kill attraction. everyone who want to pickup girls think he has to learn something but actually in fact you must ''feel'' the woman. sometimes you know you and the other person are right.. because it just feels right. Woman do not want a men who tries to understand how they think , they want a man who understands how they feel... feeling is experiencing .. thinking is trying to feel the experience.

carly fucked mike because jack failed to understand how his future wive feels before marriage... he failed the whole sets. i mean why should she even marry him if he doesn't understand how she feels ? however most woman or maybe men do find this out after they got married .. the marriage exciting on itself .. ceremony.. family .. wedding cake .. and a hot fuck in a jacuzzi on vacation.
anway look at whole mess that carly and jack created .. both are responsible. you can say they both performed immature actions so they must be a bit to the immature side. it's just another example of a dysfunctional relationship in a dysfunctional society where everyone wants to get in eachothers pants without :
1. thinking about the consequences ( immature )
2. facing the consequences ( immature)

what happened here ? why are they immature on this event ? are carly and jack insane ? no .... jacks dad died when jack was 8 ... carlys mom died when she was born and her dad is a alcoholic......
dad / mom died .. alcoholic .. any bells...

reason why so many marriages fail is not because of woman or biology alone... it's because the whole society is dysfunctional.. father son relationship is the most wounded relationship , daughters with alcohol addictive dads is also common. 'The bad marriages are another symptom of psychological dysfunctionabilit. Jack tried to control carly because he never had a dad ... he never had autority - jack is a cop he is the autority. Jack didn't want his dad to die.. it's out of his control but he didn't got rid of his emotional baggage which now investing into behavioural patters ... wanting to control everything.

carly on the other hand is just a hot milf ...i needed to mension that ... her dad is alcoholic , her dad controlled too much. he beat her alot .. probably few times a day and when he came home way too drunk she needed to take responsiblity and took care of him. carly

jack trying to control carly - gave carly the unconcious assocation with her dad ( unconcious) , jack couldn't get control just like he didn't had control over the dead of his father so he got all emotional and AFC and he didn't even know why. Even carly didn't knew why she felt bad ..... both jack and carly were immature like a kid licking a lollipop because both have experienced traumatic events and both don't even are aware it is manifesting in their relationship / marriage. When carly found out she is pregnant she ran away , another thing she did when her drunk dad tried to controlled her by beating the shit out of her.

by the way .. activating a unconcious bad assocation in a woman , assocations like abusive boyfriends / dads or drug addiction will defenitely ruin the relationship on a instant base. Never talk about her problems unless she initiates the topic .. something most people fail at.

what we see is like a cheesy back to the future movie .. it sounds to simple right ? the issues are right in front of your nose but you don't see it right ? what are your issues ? maybe they were/are worse then you think ? i don't know if masturbating on fictional characters is a possible issue i rather think not did .. julia na carly are both hot milfs , did i already mensioned that or ?

''Carly’s cousin Molly Conlan was in town. She had a mobster chasing her. When he was caught at Jack and Carly’s house, Jack came to arrest him. He called for back up, but Molly was so upset at his presence that she insisted that Jack take him out of the house. Jack decided to take him in his car. Carly begged him not to, but he couldn’t bear to see Molly upset. On the way to the police department, Jack’s car went over the bridge. Jack’s body was not in the car. Everyone gave up on the search eventually, but not Carly. She searched until she found Jack. He had amnesia and was married to a woman who was the nurse who took care of him in the hospital. Julia had a son named JJ and they were one big happy family. Carly got Jack to come back to Oakdale, and once he was there, she had him court ordered to live with her instead of Julia. Jack was torn. He finally got his memory back and let Julia down easy. She sought comfort in his cousin, Holden. Carly and Jack were glad to have things back to normal. Tragically, Julia was killed by her ex-husband and JJ was awarded to Jack, since he was the only "real dad" he knew.''

here jack is getting memory loss after this accident and landed into a relationship with another julia ( another person ) , however this relationship was happy ... unicorns, pots of gold and honeybeers all around lads ! .. no seriously he had a solid relationship with her because of his brain damage - all those bad old assocations were deleted it's similar to delelting porn from your hard drive - point and click. Now don't jump of building or eat mcdonalds - brain damage is a bad way to to solve problems. Most people use alcohol or other cultural substances to induce a temporary memory loss coupled with a temporary damage of the brain. What ? you never had craving for substances wihout really conciously knowing why ? in this culture most poeopl don't deal with problems , people are getting distracted by too many things...technology , culture, interaction, career.

back to the story ; no matter what carly still searched for jack , challenge adventure and emotions anyone ? first she dumps him like trash + cheats and now she's like ''ohhhh my life i miss my husband'' it sounds like a bad insurance company commercial. .. great idea taking insurance on your marriage lol. But once jack got his memory back he left julia number 2 and got back to carly... WAIT this DOESNT MAKE SENSE RIGHT ?

WHY in earth does he give up a good relationship with julia2 to go back to his dysfunctional relationship with carly ? it's counter productive.. it's because jack got his memory back and his brains got him by the balls.. because everything is subjective and based on neuro-associations we made in our lives. do you really think he learned fomr his old negative behaviour ? i think not...we script ourselfs to stick close to our comfort zones.... jacks identity or comfort zone was his old identity. Jacks emotional problem ; his dad dieing when he was 8 - this is his comfort , it's part of who he is and his identity - there is subconcious rationalisation at work here. People do not solve negative neuro-assocations or traumatic events because for them it's their comfort .. they need a excuse to do things in their life like they want to. What is your excuse to not improve ?
almost everyone in society is dysfunctional and stays in their negative comfort zone .. it's part of human nature.

o yeah by the way molly conlan is a freaking hot milf as well with a hot attititude, i bet alot of homo sapiens jizzed of on the fact that she's hot as hell , even a chimpansee would flashbang orgasm.

''Jack and Carly finally divorced in 2006, and after grieving for a while, Carly found herself falling in love with Simon Frasier. The two got into trouble and Jack had to arrest them both. After a struggle, Simon and Carly got away, and Jack took the kids to the farm to stay.'''arrested his ex wife .. o my god amazing right ? can you even imagine you have to arrest your anoying cheating ex-wife...ultimate payback ! another piece of envidence it's all dysfunctional. You ever want to get revenge at your ex .. just join the forces.

''Jack and Katie began dating and he quickly fell for the bubbly blonde. Carly returned to town, putting a wrench in the works and then JJ was kidnapped. Together, Jack and Carly tracked down JJ and brought him home; along the way, Jack began having feelings for Carly again. Nearly unconscious after an explosion, he said, "I love you, Carly," within Katie's hearing (Carly wasn't there). When they returned to Oakdale, Jack decided to put the past behind him and proposed to Katie! Katie accepted and Jack rushed the wedding forward and they were married in a few days.''

do you see the pattern ? everywhere there is adventure the regain attraction ... there is probably more to it but those would be unimportant details which probably drives you crazy. jack makes the same mistake ... well mistake i mean katie is another hot milf , i mean why the hell are there only hot girls playing in television series - how realistic can it be ? jack again rushed himself in another marriage .. he made the same mistake again in a desperate attempt to gain control. Did you even rush yourself into a relationship ? or a marriage ? if so why did you really do that and don't give me the ''i loved her ''. im talking about relationship .. rushing into vagina is ok as long it isn't on vacation in middle africa.


''Just after the wedding, Jack got devastating news: Carly was dying from a brain lesion! He put his life - and his honeymoon - on hold to care for her! Jack was falling for Carly again and asked her to marry him. On the day of their wedding, Carly told him that she was misdiagnosed and had lied about it. He left her at the altar but it was too late to save his relationship with Katie.'' a girl with a alcoholic father often lies to him just to calm him down. woman who used drugs or are alcoholics like daddy lie alot ! little girls will do anything to prevent a good old ass beating thus they lie to daddy in order to calm down the situation. in her case it's just a behavioural pattern coupled with the good old jealousy plotline. She dumped jacks ass 3 times.. do you really think she's in love so she lies about it ? lying is just another form of control ... it's like G.W bush saying saddams a dictator - well we knew that already in 1979 when he entered office - epic fail. just another desperate attempt to get something ( oil ) and lie (saddam ) in order to do so.


''He took the kids from Carly and tried to leave her in his past. Janet Ciccone arrived in town and began an affair with Jack. The closer they got, though, the more Jack realized his feelings for Carly weren't in the past. Around this time he learned of Carly's affair with Holden and was livid. Rather than focus on Carly, though, Jack tried to save Parker from a bad relationship with Liberty Ciccone - and a livid Brad! When Brad accused Parker of raping Liberty, Jack and Carly pulled together to clear their son. At Alison and Aaron's wedding, Jack and Carly talked about the past but neither could admit they still had feelings for one another. Janet realize that Jack's feelings weren't in the past and moved out of the farm.'''

not one marriage did last ..jack & carly ... could they be soulmates ? possibly but likely impossible ... she cheated like 3 times - wait .. lets just make it 8 times to make it more spectecular - 3 is a boring number .. if you cheat nowdays you should have at least cheated 10 times otherwise you aren't cool. she dumped him 3 times.... what you see is a fine line between what a woman wants and responds to -Challenge and emotions - and a fine line between personality and previous traumatic events. don't mistake one for another that would be deadly.... so what really attracts jack and carly ? is it love ..? yes but this is not the main reason. they hold eachother hostage, he tries to control and she doesn't want to be controlled - it's a never ending game of pickup - there is no regualr relationship like we think. Wow do i have to go to my girlfriend use a fals time constraint and use the UFO opener ? yes .. i mean no ... that is stupid.

the relationship is there when you meet for the first time..attraction is not a choice and it happens within seconds. the question is how can you keep it exciting and high energy - that is a hard question. What is your and her defenition of a relationship ? what you see is that most people wil give you short term thinking answers , immature answers in general. The fact that alot of marriages fail isn't important - who do you marry ? do you marry that immature little wrench or do you act long term and try to find a more rewarding and meaningfull relationship.

this story about jack and carly is just another example of whats really happening and how it influences the world around them. It's not that people are idiots - they unconciously choose to be idiots and they don't even know it. if you want to get married - go to a online dating site and select someone who is serious and fullfilling.. don't go to the nearest bar like 90 % of society does and expect to find your future wife there.

seriously i rather hookup with golem of lord of the rings than getting into a relationship with a slutty bargirl. shit that comes out of golems mouth is funny .. shit that comes out of her mind is .. boring...

example of a dysfunctional couple in a dysfunctional society and nobody cares ...

good game
go humanity
go USA
go western culture yeeeehhh

_________________
AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526

We dont fail as a species. . .

_________________
"You don't want girls to think you suck dick at fucking pussy"
-Seth (Superbad)

they called me crazy when i started to understand humanity fails.For every genius there are a million people who are so stupid they couldn't find north on a map...What you say is true,in your long post...we are fucked,and we where fucked.The problem is that (like religious idiots say) it's better to be ignorant and happy,then seeing the truth and admitting we are fucked...The thing about the second option is,that maybe we will do soemthing about it.
And yes,about politics.The art of lying to stupid people.Who lies best will be president.Like in the justice system.Don't know who said it...but :the truth doesen't matter,it's how you interpret the existing evidence for your own gain...and that's good old fasion justice!!!