Okay here's my $0.02 on the numbers game aspect of pick-up. Because I feel like you guys are very close and with a little bit more clarification some guy may have a paradigm shift

Picking up a woman is a form of sales. Your facilitating a sale, by that I mean the exchange of one or more items for one or more other items. In pickup your just aiming for a trade of her time/affection/sexuality etc etc for access to yours, your product is you.

Now there is a fairly common rule of thumb in the sales world on the general distribution of initial interest levels in a product and in my experiences this holds true in picking up women as well that is roughly as follows:

3% - The number of women who are actively looking for a hookup. You could basically say anything to these women and get them. Basically just open them and don't completely talk them out of it and your golden. These are known as lay-downs in the sales world.

7% - The number of women who would like a hookup but are not actively looking for one. Not quite as easy, simply because these women are not advertising that they are looking for you, they will still tend to be very receptive.

30% - The number who are not completely opposed to a hook-up. This is really the first group where superior levels of "game" can affect your closing percentages. These women These women are not seeking, or considering a hookup but the key here is that they are not completely opposed to it either, if presented with the right man and circumstances it could happen.

30% - The number of women who have given hooking up little or no thought for the time. This group is similar to the last group in the fact that they are not directly opposed to the idea, and again can be closed at a reasonable clip given you have solid "game". The big difference is it requires a bit more work due to you needing to get the idea on to her radar as well.

30% - The number of women who are strongly opposed to hooking up. This may be for a number of reasons, boyfriend/husband/religion/lesbian/etc, but in my experience this is the actual number of girls were the odds are extremely slim. It is still possible to close some of these women, but your odds are horrible and quite frankly it is a very poor use of your time.

So there you have the numbers, as you improve you'll be able to close more and more of the middle 60% which is were the biggest difference comes in.

My advice to any newbies who are intimidated by all of this to take comfort that IMO almost anyone can close 3-5% with your skill level today, you just have to do it. Also I feel most anyone can be up to about 10% in 3 months, for some people it will be higher and in much less time.

So my advice and my challenge to anyone who is struggling to improve their results with women is the same as the challenge I give all of my new sales reps.

Go get me 200 "No"s. Go out there and get 200 women to say no to you, make a promise to yourself and to me that you won't quit until you have been turned down 200 times. Sometimes you will get bitch shields, sometimes you will get fake anti-slut defense rejections and I still want you to try to overcome these, but the goal is to get legitimately turned down 200 times.

Once you make it to 200 you are free to quit if you want, but I'm warning you in all my years in sales and in pick up I have never had 1 person quit who made it all the way to 200 no's. I guess that 5-20 yeses are worth it.

Great post.

PU is a numbers game, a game in which you can improve your numbers.

I would also like to add that by screening women and looking for the ones who are exhibiting the signs of "I wanna fuck" can make ones life much more efficient.

_________________
Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

Here's another analogy

I also do Boxing. When you start out in boxing, you learn to throw the different punches, then when you have learnt that, when you spar, you usually just want to throw as many punches as possible, then when you get better, you want to improve your accuracy and increase the ratio of the punches you thrown which hit their target. A beginner might thrown 12 punches and have one hit, an advanced boxer might throw 12 punches and have 5 to 6 of them hit.

That is what it is like with pickup. Start off just getting the volume out there, then as you get better, work on getting a better conversion ratio

I do sells as well but my approach is a bit different i am looking for believers, not people i can convert....

I have questions i ask my prospects(by the way i do the same of people working 10 hours a day in 2 hours, i actually taught a dude here that was about to get fired my sales system he became number 2 in the co.)

If they do not have the answers i am looking for i hang up the phone asap, while other sales people spent their time trying to CONVINCE (in pick up seduce)

The problem that i have with the community numbers game approach is that they do not do it right ( going to as many girls as possible trying to see what sticks) that is not the right approach... I also do not like the rsd approach of staying in set till you get blown out, that is stupid...


Here is how i do it:

1.- look for Body language reads (in sales i dial the TARGET RIGHT LIST, phone most efficient of all sales systems)

2.- Approach (in sales have a NORMAL CONVO, not a sales pitch)

3.- Screen by escalating (in sales screen by finding out from questions the answers i am looking for)

4.- Handle objections if any ( usually if the girl is aroused enough there won't be objections)

5.- close

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

The old looking for lay downs approach. That is a great approach in bulk prospect environments (such as phone sales).

I would be extremely careful recommending that to guy in terms of pick-up however. The primary issues here are for two categories, beginner and advanced.

For beginners the problem here is providing easy excuses for not taking enough action. Beginners do not have the required skills to appropriately read body language, positioning, tone and tempo to have an accurate read on the interaction. Also they will not be efficient at screening, they haven't learned what/how/when to ask to get the information they require. Also the biggest problem I have with this is the objection handling, objection handling pure and simply is what persuasion is all about. So all around in my opinion, your making it a bit to complicated for beginners.

For those who are advanced enough to properly read people, I'd be very careful of over screening. If your not getting and handling objections regularly then you need to get out of your comfort zone and go for hotter women (read:bigger clients). Also once you learn to handle objections and understand the psychology behind them for your target group, you can tailor aspects of your interaction to create objections that will fall in a predetermined range that you can handle in a particularly excellent way. This all works towards fulfilling the needed levels of trust /concessions needed for a proper pitch and negotiation, but this isn't sales 101 so back to pick up related topics lol.

Lastly the thing I would be careful of as a guy progresses and can make reads would be falling into the "buy now" trap. Pick up has a variable length sales cycle and just because after 10 minutes in a bar she might not be in to you enough to go home with you doesn't mean she might not be ready to give you her number, text with you a couple times, go get some ice cream/coffee etc and then go to your place.

Solid advice overall skill, those are just the points I'd be careful of, which I'm sure you would have given disclaimers about anyway if you were writing a longer post

I agree somewhat, I do recommend staying in the set if the resistance is not congruent with her actions back to body language,this is the lounge(advance) i was not talking in newbie terms... Good stuff!

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

Great post Doc. Brought me back a decade ago when my roommate was a head hunter. Before we hit Scottsdale he would give this pep talk like Ben Affleck in Boiler Room. We kept stats on the back of these wooden Ps we had. It really got our game up. Good thought man, thanks!

_________________
My personal mantra:

"Every woman's a whore in the right situation"
"They're all selling it for something"
"She's sluttier than you think she is"

Great post Doc! 100% agree with you!

_________________
I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

You forgot to mention the small percentage who will contact you first, without you initiating anything, you just have to look approachable. Even in sales there are customers who call the sales department to make the purchase.

Really needed to read this, Sometimes I feel that I have no skill with women and I can't get things to happen the way I want. Other times I feel like I got some type of handle on it. But I realise now more than ever this really isn't about a destination. this is a continuous and forever evolving journey.

I never thought I would have been this committed to improving my skills with women. but I know now that I'm in it for life or until I meet that woman that makes me feel like I can trade this lifestyle for her.

Because life for me is about basically two things which can entail all other things:

Getting paid and getting laid.

So I am committed to making it to 200 women. I will give myself a time limit say 2 months or however long it will take and I will document my progress in a excel spreadsheet and see as a percentage how well I go.

Thanks again players.

Hey guys! i did not want to high jack and go into a back and forth so i made a post about this subject:

here-vp692381.html#692381

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction