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 Post subject: The Game of Seduction
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:12 pm 
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A few words about myself:

First of all, I am not so heavily engaged in 'the game' technique and the whole PUA routine that some people on this forum endorse. I prefer to take bits and pieces from different theories, especially body language and psychology. I do like the book, the game, and I use parts of it, but at my own discretion. Think of me as a subtler and less direct version of the style: I prefer day game over night game and 'peacock theory' for me means trimming my nails nicely and wearing a nice shirt, jacket and clothes, not dressing like a freak (to be blunt). I also don't use silly words like 'neg', 'kino', 'IOI', etc - I just refer instead to playfully teasing, body contact or indicators of interest. Mind you, some of those things definitely do work but again subtlety is my style.

I know that last night I made somebody guess where it was I came from to which she responded that I guess her whereabouts instead. I made the mistake of doing so (I should have kept teasing her) and her reaction was definitely jokey but somewhat negative or so I perceived. I believe she turned around to her friends, either to block me out or to try and reel me in as some kind of test - to which I responded by approaching another girl instead. But then she approached me later when I was speaking to this other girl who was just bait really and made quite close contact so I realised the strategy had worked at least partially (either that or having bait worked well enough to redeem my error). What I did then was to speak over my shoulder, with my body very slightly tilted away from her. And this works a charm because it conveys that (a) you are not desperate for her attention (which I never am anyway because I train my brain along the lines of 'plenty of fish in the sea'), (b) you are a prize that needs to be fought for (if you look like you are about to walk away, then she needs to fight to regain your attention). Also, if you are approaching a stranger, then you absolutely have to do this - it is a must. It sets up a time constraint on your interaction and shows that you are not going to be creepy and keep her ther for too long. Anyway, the mistake I made was that as she fought to walk around my body and close in, I did not turn around myself. Partly because I was not able to think fast enough whilst we were also engaged in conversation. When I left her (or she left me, can't remember which) I had intended to go back after a while since this works very well if you intend for the woman to miss you. I did see her again, but it was in a club, so too noisy to make much conversation - instead I brushed my hand against her arm lightly, making eye contact. At this point I was being too analytical: I was wondering whether to continue the game of cat-string or not. I decided that asking her to dance would make me seem too desperate at this point. I was probably wrong. I noticed that the guy she started to speak with, she more or less immediately cut him off when I went to the bar but it is perfectly possible I am reading into this all to deeply. Its very easy to create things in your mind. Of course though, its always good for your ego to pretend to yourself that every woman in the room would die to have you, so perhaps making up excuses in your head (e.g. she's just playing hard to get) is useful.

Admittedly, I'm something of a social robot but I apply theory to practice most days unlike some internet forum nerds and will talk to quite a few people on a regular basis (men and women). Although I am not especially intimidated by the opposite sex, or people in general, I can nonetheless find it difficult to establish rapport, partly because I have a tendency to 'trivialise' conversation, even if I maintain it with a smile and positive body language.

I also generally prefer a woman with class and intellect, not just good looks although I am quite picky on the latter as well. Whereas I was a very shallow teenager when it came to looks, I am finding that I can put looks to one side if the girl has an 'aura' about her. But there does need to be a physical chemistry of sorts. When I mention 'class', I am also referring to the kind of clothes she wears: sophisticated dresses, sparkly but small and precious jewellery as well as a nice smell are all good turn ons and these things help demonstrate that the woman carries herself with both confidence and style. Yet, although all of this may seem deep and profound, I am not looking for relationships, mainly because I want to explore the chemistry between myself and lots of different women.

Fortunately, I am at university so there are plenty of women like that. On the other hand, the nightlife over here is increasingly becoming dominated by the 'chav scene' although many places do student nights only so that is definitely a positive (if you are American, you may be unfamiliar with the term chav - it is essentially a lowlife prone to violence and raucous behaviour not to mention bold public displays of one's masculinity in groups of other chavs). It might sound like I am a snob at the moment but that is not the case, I assure you, where I was brought up was certainly not posh and you would probably be rather surprised to hear my accent which is quite a broad, regional accent (I can't say where I am from so as to protect my anonymity). I just tend to have a rather flowery writing style.

I've been waiting for a chance to go out so I can post some 'gaming' material, and I'm typing this now while the memory is fresh. The main problem I can see is that most of it is just essentially flirtatious chit-chat, with somewhat seductive eye contact, flattery through not too obvious body language mimcry and mild physical contact. Yes, I take a very indirect route, admittedly and never approach a woman with the intent of sex but with the intent of making a spiritual connection. This isn't necessarily a bad thing though as she will likely let her guard down if she doesn't feel pressurised. The trick is to then escalate.

As for fear: fear is rarely on my mind. The main thing I fear is avoiding the aggressive boyfriend type so this can make approaching women in groups more difficult. I tend to use association to approach women instead. What I mean is that I can associate myself with the woman by pointing out that she is a friend of a friend, or that she is on my course or that she is at the same university. Its good to do this since people in general can be weary around strangers: now you are not so much of a stranger. Or, if she is a complete stranger, I will use association to point out that we are in the same place, e.g. we are both waiting or a haircut. I will do this simply by commenting on the surroundings. I will playfully tease the woman. I will use association to connect the topic of discussion to more spiritual or maybe even a more sexual level. I think the cube is a good bet for this but I need to figure out how to relate it to the flow of conversation and how to remember it more effectively. I am actually finding that loud bars can be good because they provide an excuse for you to get up close and personal so you can speak softly into the other person's ear, though it is crucial not to lose eye contact. If anything I maintained slightly too much eye contact the other night; I believe it is not supposed to be longer than 70% of the time although when you are flirting its a different kettle of fish. I also tend to be the type of person who has to pause for much thought so I try to use those silences to build up tension rather than nervously grasping for words like 'umm' and 'ahh'.

I was going to give an overview of last night, but to be honest I can't remember too many of the details (I spoke and flirted with at least 9 or 10 girls) and I am trying to maintain my anonymity - I am sure that if someone who read this who knew me on a personal level would recognise me if I did give out too many details. A lot of the women I was speaking to were reasonably attractive but I mainly spoke to them for social proof.

By the way, I normally have more humour than this but I have not been able to convey it for some reason. I certainly endeavour to make the occasional witty remark around women.

Oh, by the way some girl was insisting I get a drink because apparently I looked nervous (which was odd because I felt completely fine and pretty sure my body language was relaxed - I tend to droop my shoulders down to the lowest point and try to hold my drink by my side, although it tends to make it tricky not to spill it). Now I've been in social situations where I've been completely dependent on the booze and I was insistent to myself that tonight I wasn't going to touch a drop, it was all gonna be about confidence in myself, so I tried to turn the situation into a joke by playing the 5 lies game but she responded to it in a weird way :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:01 am 
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Apocalypse Opener

Tonight was exceedingly bad. I decided to take a more direct approach following on from the 'friendly chats' of the other night.

For a start I went out by myself since there was no-one else and you can't really rely on anyone else to help you with this routine. You have to demonstrate and project 100% guts to the girl and that requires going solo. I told myself it would be alright and nobody would notice. I 'meditated' before leaving my flat (i.e. just sat down closed my eyes) and practiced relaxing my shoulders, and making sure my arms were swaying by my side loosely and confidently. I was going to find a girl by herself to try out the 'apocalypse opener' which in a nutshell is asking her directly for sex. You can't act cocky, be nervous or laugh nervously and you can't smile unless she smiles first. You have to be extremely casual as if you were asking her where the cinema was. You open up with ordinary conversation: "Hi how are you?", "what are you doing later?" and then "want to come home with me tonight?" She has to be by herself as well, unless you are looking for a threesome, in which case it is just the two.

But what went wrong was not the fact that I got a "no" (I could even detect a hint of "no means yes" there), it was the fact I could only find two girls by themselves and before I went home feeling like a weirdo the bouncers in one bar I had been circling around asked me if I was lost or something. I need to figure out how to blend in more at bars when you're by yourself. Normally I'd try and befriend lots of people or at least walk around with a great big smile but I get the impression that with the apocalypse you need to portray a darker, more sinister image. I'm wondering how to blend in more when you are on your own.

I am sure that I can at least feign confidence even if I don't feel it but this approach requires something else entirely, so I think I will leave it for now but I will report anyway. The first girl just forced a semi-smile before walking off as soon as I said hi (and I said it in an unusually bold voice as well). The second was sitting in the corner of a room by herself: I can't remember what she said after "how are you" but she made an excuse when I asked her what she was upto, saying that her friend was at the bar. (Either that or it was the truth, but I've noticed a tendency for people to leave their jackets next to them if that's the case; either that or to accompany their friend unless of course they want to reserve the table). The second girl was smiling so smiled back. I got the impression she was just shy when she said "No, I can't, sorry!" but I usually take no for a no as a general principle.

I'm not sure that this approach is for me yet...

Oh and I forgot to mention the pause after you say "would you come home with me". I thought I pulled it off quite well despite the rejection. I might have even gone back for round two, if I could see that her 'friend' had not arrived.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:54 am 
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I think you will have to be 100% sure that she is attracted to you.
If this is not the case, this opener ofcourse will NOT work.

See, if you dont want to buy a car, and a salesman approaches you and wants to sell you a car, ofcourse you say no.
Why?
Because you are not interested.
What does the salesman do?
He´ll head for other potential costumers.

Thats what you should do, too

How to tell if shes attracted?
Well,in a club, go to a girl ( not on the dance floor ----> lots of cock teasers ) , take her hand, hold it until she pulls it away.
If she doesnt ( like holding for 10-20 seconds ) go for intense eye contact and do a spin around with her.If this is a no go fo her - next! dont waste any time
If she likes it ---> its on!
Be friendly and smile, have fun.
Dont be a weirdo or a creep, theres no need to play Schwarzenegger when it comes to mesmerizing girls.
Be playful.

Then its time for apocalypse opener
By pre-screening via the handshake, you can say wether the girl is attracted or not, because you cant " cold approach " many times.
Imagine approaching 5-10 sets with this very sexual opener.

You will immidiately be recognized as a " freak " by people going often to the same club.
I think in a girls mind this opener will drop like a bomb because its likely that they never heard it before so they bragg about this " weird, confident guy "


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:31 am 
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Hi Kent, thanks for the assistance.
Quote:
How to tell if shes attracted?
Well,in a club, go to a girl ( not on the dance floor ----> lots of cock teasers ), take her hand, hold it until she pulls it away.
So if not on the dance floor then presumably look for her in the bar, or the corner of the room? The other problem is finding someone not in a group...
Quote:
You will immidiately be recognized as a " freak " by people going often to the same club.
Hmm...that is definitely a problem, especially if I ever see any of these guys around campus, it will affect my social status. Luckily I can always get a haircut to change my image for one thing and I'm going out with a group of people tonight for another. What I need to do is open a set or two on the dance floor for social proof, then I can flitter from group to group throughout the night. Problem is, its easier to do this earlier on in the night; most people in my group will not go out till quite late because that is the cool thing to do (if only the guys knew what I know :twisted:).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:56 pm 
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1. You have confidence issues. (maybe you are quite young)

2. Good body posture , do not smile , do not be angry , keep a poker face.

3. Do not be afraid to touch her.

4. I think you should ditch the " want to home with me" and replace it with " I don't like beating around the bush so I am going to be honest ... I think you're sexy I want to exchange orgasms with you" then keep the eye contact.

Do not give up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:06 pm 
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Quote:
1. You have confidence issues. (maybe you are quite young)

2. Good body posture , do not smile , do not be angry , keep a poker face.

3. Do not be afraid to touch her.

4. I think you should ditch the " want to home with me" and replace it with " I don't like beating around the bush so I am going to be honest ... I think you're sexy I want to exchange orgasms with you" then keep the eye contact.

Do not give up.
Thanks Stelar.

It may sound like I have a lack of confidence, but really that is just me analysing myself from a completely neutral perspective. Yes I am quite young though (20). It is as though I were talking about a friend and where I thought he was going right and wrong. I remember someone telling me what an excellent poker face I have during a card game; I don't think except for strategy. I just relax my cheeks/jaw, etc.

By the way, are you Turkish? You have a very Turkish demeanor: direct, brutally honest, well dressed and poker faced but friendly and casual.

I'll try the last line out.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
1. You have confidence issues. (maybe you are quite young)

2. Good body posture , do not smile , do not be angry , keep a poker face.

3. Do not be afraid to touch her.

4. I think you should ditch the " want to home with me" and replace it with " I don't like beating around the bush so I am going to be honest ... I think you're sexy I want to exchange orgasms with you" then keep the eye contact.

Do not give up.
Thanks Stelar.

It may sound like I have a lack of confidence, but really that is just me analysing myself from a completely neutral perspective. Yes I am quite young though (20). It is as though I were talking about a friend and where I thought he was going right and wrong. I remember someone telling me what an excellent poker face I have during a card game; I don't think except for strategy. I just relax my cheeks/jaw, etc.

By the way, are you Turkish? You have a very Turkish demeanor: direct, brutally honest, well dressed and poker faced but friendly and casual.

I'll try the last line out.
Read my lay reports to get a better idea of what I am saying. Friendly comes as weak ( you are trying to fuck her , not to be her friend) , keep neutral and while your should talk to her in a casual way , it should come form a position of power ( like a father talks with his daughter)

I am not turkish , I think of myself as being very efficient.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Quote:
Read my lay reports to get a better idea of what I am saying. Friendly comes as weak ( you are trying to fuck her , not to be her friend) , keep neutral and while your should talk to her in a casual way , it should come form a position of power ( like a father talks with his daughter)
Haha, I think you misread me:

"It is as though I were talking about a friend and where I thought he was going right and wrong."

I am talking about myself, i.e. this is me analysing myself: my own strengths and weaknesses from a detached perspective.

Still, thanks for posting in my journal, mate.

edit: oh and I did read your lay reports and you have some awesome stuff. Simple but effective.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:05 am 
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Terrible night

So me and a few friends went out. To start off with, nothing much was going on; we were in a club that was half empty and no-one felt like dancing so we just sat down after not too long. I wanted to psyche myself up by keeping a poker faced, relaxed/zen like state of mind but I found it difficult to be opening and engaging with the rest of the group using this mentality. Usually I am much livelier when I am being more flirtatious tonight I was being extremely direct. Nonetheless, I eventually managed to figure out how to balance this relaxed meditated state of mind on the inside with a more playful edge on the outside in order to engage the rest of the group but this was later on. There were two attractive girls with us but I didn't want to hit on them with apocalypse because it is likely I will see them again so it could be very awkward if I crashed and burned. A few of us got bored, then suggested we go to a different club. One of them turned out to be a right tosser.

I kept looking for single girls but as soon as the opportunity arose to talk to one of them they would suddenly be engulfed in a group. I eventually found someone walking by herself: I think she was off to find her friends but I made my move (I had seen her earlier by the way but didn't have the opportunity).

Me: Hi, how are you?
(She smiles but I keep a perfectly straight face as Stelar suggested).
Her: Hey! blah blah blah
(she gets closer - good).
Me: What you doing later?
Her: blah blah blah
(time for the apocalypse: I couldn't remember Stelar's line so I used something equally outrageous)
Me: I am going to be completely honest with you, I want to fuck you in every position.
Her: Sorry?
(put my hand on her arm, speak into her ear, maintaining as much eye contact as possible).
Me: I said I want to fuck you in every position.
(I was expecting a pregnant pause. I was actually looking forwards to the thrill of it. But there was no silence).
Her (sarcastically, walking away): Lovely!

Fair enough: not especially bothered. She could have been a lot harsher with me. I became paranoid at this point she might tell a fellow which would cause some trouble even though she didn't seem like that type of person (heck, I could have even befriended her had I been more normal). I grabbed my coat and left for this reason, also because it didn't seem like there were many women there to successfully approach. I think this kind of technique works on the darker, shy girl over there in the corner of the room. There wasn't anyone like that here.

I wasn't at all shocked this: after all its only the second time I tried it. I had intended to go to a different club where I could meet with some other people but decided against, after all the entry into these two bars was already three times as much as I'd expected and I didn't have any money left.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Quote:
Terrible night

So me and a few friends went out. To start off with, nothing much was going on; we were in a club that was half empty and no-one felt like dancing so we just sat down after not too long. I wanted to psyche myself up by keeping a poker faced, relaxed/zen like state of mind but I found it difficult to be opening and engaging with the rest of the group using this mentality. Usually I am much livelier when I am being more flirtatious tonight I was being extremely direct. Nonetheless, I eventually managed to figure out how to balance this relaxed meditated state of mind on the inside with a more playful edge on the outside in order to engage the rest of the group but this was later on. There were two attractive girls with us but I didn't want to hit on them with apocalypse because it is likely I will see them again so it could be very awkward if I crashed and burned. A few of us got bored, then suggested we go to a different club. One of them turned out to be a right tosser.

I kept looking for single girls but as soon as the opportunity arose to talk to one of them they would suddenly be engulfed in a group. I eventually found someone walking by herself: I think she was off to find her friends but I made my move (I had seen her earlier by the way but didn't have the opportunity).

Me: Hi, how are you?
(She smiles but I keep a perfectly straight face as Stelar suggested).
Her: Hey! blah blah blah
(she gets closer - good).
Me: What you doing later?
Her: blah blah blah
(time for the apocalypse: I couldn't remember Stelar's line so I used something equally outrageous)
Me: I am going to be completely honest with you, I want to fuck you in every position.
Her: Sorry?
(put my hand on her arm, speak into her ear, maintaining as much eye contact as possible).
Me: I said I want to fuck you in every position.
(I was expecting a pregnant pause. I was actually looking forwards to the thrill of it. But there was no silence).
Her (sarcastically, walking away): Lovely!

Fair enough: not especially bothered. She could have been a lot harsher with me. I became paranoid at this point she might tell a fellow which would cause some trouble even though she didn't seem like that type of person (heck, I could have even befriended her had I been more normal). I grabbed my coat and left for this reason, also because it didn't seem like there were many women there to successfully approach. I think this kind of technique works on the darker, shy girl over there in the corner of the room. There wasn't anyone like that here.

I wasn't at all shocked this: after all its only the second time I tried it. I had intended to go to a different club where I could meet with some other people but decided against, after all the entry into these two bars was already three times as much as I'd expected and I didn't have any money left.
Was she walking?

Speak clearly from the beginning , don't let her ask you "what?"

You still lack confidence , go in like a bullet. It;s more about perception, you should say that from a position of power , a few users from here used it and got laid.

Work a bit on yourself.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:07 pm 
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Quote:
Was she walking?
Yes. I made eye contact and as I remember it, I think I stopped walking towards her, making her take a step or two closer to me.

Either that is a sign of weakness (I should have just walked straight into her personal territory and put my hand on her hip) or it is a useful technique to make her chase and reel her in. Don't know which.
Quote:
Speak clearly from the beginning , don't let her ask you "what?"
Ok. Its next to impossible to hear people in these clubs but I have a tendency to draw material from my flirtier self which is a more playful/sexier tone of voice, even though my voice is naturally low and resonant. That is probably why she did not hear me.
Quote:
You still lack confidence , go in like a bullet. It;s more about perception, you should say that from a position of power , a few users from here used it and got laid.
Yes, I have noticed. It seems like an extremely powerful tool, even from my own limited experience of it. I think I need to just refine the way I am using it a little more: I am certain that I at least managed to shock this girl with the scarily casual demeanor with which I delivered this. Maybe that is the reason she asked me to repeat; in case she had misheard me.

Thanks Stelar.


Last edited by JHA91 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:49 pm 
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After she said lovely, you should of said, "I am going to give you 5 minutes to recover." Walk away. After 5 minutes go back to her and put out your hand and say, "Let's get out of here." The girl didn't really reject you, you didn't even get to a NO. You have to keep being persistent until she says no. Now from your scenario, you'll never know what really could of happened.

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Don't get on one knee for a girl that won't get on two for you.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Quote:
After she said lovely, you should of said, "I am going to give you 5 minutes to recover." Walk away. After 5 minutes go back to her and put out your hand and say, "Let's get out of here." The girl didn't really reject you, you didn't even get to a NO. You have to keep being persistent until she says no. Now from your scenario, you'll never know what really could of happened.
That's completely possible but I didn't have a chance to say that because she just walked off so quickly. It seemed like a definite "no" though, not an "I'm just playing hard to get," or "I'm too shy to say yes," type of no. Next time I will say that though if she maintains eye contact for long enough.

Edit: by the way, do you ever find you have trouble off other fellows or bouncers even, doing this kind of stuff?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:27 pm 
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the apocalypse opener isnt effective all the time, its just made for people who have balls and arent afraid of any consequence...you arent in that phase yet, so why dont you try escalating in other ways? the moment you start gaining confidence with women that opener will work better (though i havent tried it myself).
Just remember that its one of many openers and it doesnt fit every situation.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:33 pm 
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Quote:
the apocalypse opener isnt effective all the time, its just made for people who have balls and arent afraid of any consequence...you arent in that phase yet, so why dont you try escalating in other ways? the moment you start gaining confidence with women that opener will work better (though i havent tried it myself).
Just remember that its one of many openers and it doesnt fit every situation.
The problem with all the other routines is they're are just too long and complicated: I can't remember all of that opener, DHV, rapport, kino, escalation, stuff. It nearly always ends up in a friendly chat :?

Oh, and I believe I do have balls hehe. I think the apocalypse just needs a touch of refining.


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