I started getting into pickup when my girlfriend at the time and I broke up.I was feeling like I needed to thaw myself out into the dating scene after being away for a while. Seeing as I read a lot it was natural that I found books on the subject of seducing women and that opened me up to all of this pickup artist stuff. Now at first it was great. I devoured books and instructional videos on the subject and became obsessed with trying to meet women. Everything was good at this point. I'd go up to the mall or the library with a friend walking in circles just to find women to break the ice with. It was fun even though it was neurotic and compulsive because I felt I was practicing. My emotions weren't invested in what I was doing in the name of desensitizing myself to approaching. This seems to be the nature of all pickup teaching in the community. Try the next thing until you master it. If you fail, its practice if you don't its a success, all action give you xp points. As Isaid this was great until iI became comfortable with approaching and good at naturally attracting a woman but once it got to the point of going out with these women or being alone I found there was no neurotic, impulsive function to help me through it. People gave advice on what to do in specific situations but none of it helped because it isn't of the same nature as meeting women. My feeling is that the pickup community needs to put more emphasis on emotion. Its common to see advice given saying "oh, you'll get past that when you learn to not give a fuck." In all seductive matters you should give a fuck. You should not fuck women that you aren't at least a little emotionally curios about. You do yourself a disservice every time. The top priority should always be to spend time seducing women you have compatible emotional interests in and not wasting your time with those emotionless The current ideology on these forums is geared toward becoming emotionless so that your free to shamelessly do as you please in the name of progress. What do you guys think? Has anyone else ran into problems of feeling too rigid or emotionless.

You made a good point that i think deserves to be answered.

First of all, when you entered the pua community you had a goal, right? For some is to fuck as many women as possible, for others is to take revenge on the other sex for what some of them has done to them (it's not nice, I know, but there are those people as well in the community) and then there are people like me that want to have some fun, but then settle with one girl and have a family.

Because of what you said, I would say you are in my same category.

So, let's go back from where I started: I was shy, introverted and it wasn't easy for me to make friends, gfs even worse! I would have a crush all the time which stopped me to go after girls that for some misterious reason wanted me. Then I got into the pua community. Everything changed. As you did, I read many books, watched videos and tried to understand everything the gurus where saying. Then I understood I had to go out there and try it out, but my AA stopped me every single time. That's why in order to succeed I needed help. A couple of my friends did as wingmen for me and that's when I really started to apply everything I had learned. I understood I had to desenzitize myself in order to not fall in love with these girls, but I wasn't a pro, so it happened. I got in three relationships and i really liked all of these girls, but when we eventually broke up, one of them actually hurt me more than the others.

From that point on, I decided to completely desezitize myself from every girl. I decided that I wouldn't have had any more feelings for someone unless I could see she really deserves it. You may say now "haha that's impossible! You can't control your feelings!". Well, you can. Feelings are nothing else than hormones in your body and once you train not to release certain hormones at a given time (thing that you can do, like any other kind of training), you have control over most of your feelings.

So, now I have a lot of success with girls, but I'm completely desezitized from them and am a bit unhappy. Why? Because I'm not going towards my first goal, the one to find a special one (I don't care if you say such people don't exist. I believe in it, that's all that matters to me). What's the solution to this? Opening up. Retrain in order to actually not being able to control my hormones anymore.





So, what is the point of all this story? Well, first of all, you should think about your goal in your dating life and do everything you can to get to it. If then you are like me, that you want someone special, you need to learn to open up again if you are desenzitived to the girls, because that path won't lead you to your objective. If your objective are one night stands, then stay like that.

Hope I helped!

You, my friend, are the only person I've interacted with on this forum that a psychoanalyst would consider "sane". Haha.
Your story was perfect and you sound to be on the right path. But you see how you criticized yourself about "looking for the one"? That's the attitude that Isee perpetuated on these forums and in books. That women are like play do to mold to your image of perfection. The whole idea of a dysfuntcion coined as "one it is" is insane. The problem is you can mold and manipulate women once you crack the code but what else, but vanity do you accomplish once you reach that place. Loving women is the ultimate goal I don't care who you are. Its a dysfunction to not open up, as you were saying. Fear of women and fear of failure seems to be what leads to the dezensitization.

I think the advice of 'not giving a fuck' doesn't so much come from being able to play the game without emotions so that you can play on the emotions of women, but because, like you said, WE can sometimes let our emotions factor into things when it's not a good idea to let that happen.

I wrote in a post on another part of this forum about the idea of 'disconnection'. That we, not as PUA's but as men, had to do what we could to divide our emotions from the singles game and be ice cold because women could go from hot to cold towards us in a second without rhyme or reason. More than that, being too emotionally vested in a particular woman can lead to giving off an aura of neediness...something women despise.

In short, 'not giving a fuck' isn't advice given to be a better 'player', it's advice given to both enhance our game while protecting ourselves a little better from the inevitable rejection or cold shoulder...while we're in the singles game. For those that've gotten into a relationship and aren't in the singles game, then it's a BAD idea to not give a fuck.

But by that point, you're playing a whole new game with a whole different set of rules anyway.

_________________
Do not let circumstances control you. You change your circumstances.

-Jackie Chan

Women don't hate "neediness", they crave it. They always want a man that needs them but you may not be that man. Men despise neediness in themselves because its painful to us. We want to become conquistadors of pussy but we love a certain woman, well that's inconsistent and would cause problems. Just as if you approach a woman playfully and sexually open and you start to develop feelings for her, well that'dbe inconsistent too and would also cause problems.

And that may be true that "don't give a fuck" advice will make you a more efficient pickup artist but what is an efficient artist. Would it be art if instead of taking time painting, davinci focused his efforts on being able to replicate one painting as quickly and effieciently as possible?

My point is that not giving a fuck takes the fun out of the whole game but I also takes away the pain and that's why people preach it. NO PAIN NO GAIN. Right?

I don't fully agree with you on the part that women crave neediness from the man part, but I have to say that it can work on your favour sometimes. The secret is not to be needy for most of the time and then to be like that in some special occasions. Like that, you show the woman you care about her, but at the same time you don't risk to annoy her with your neediness. Women do get annoyed by that at a certain point if it's too much, and I experienced it.

I respect your point and I see some truth in it, but from my experience that's how it should work.

A couple things:

The not giving a fuck mentality is focused around not caring how what you day and do is perceived by women....with the caveat that you not be needy.

Being needy is doing something to illicit a certain reaction from a woman, as opposed to saying and doing what you want and not giving a shit. A good example is a compliment; telling a girl that she is sexy as fuck simply because it's on your mind and would like to express it (non-needy) as opposed to telling a girl she looks sexy as fuck in order to ingratiate yourself to her so she'll talk to you, give you her number etc. Scenario 1 gives you the biproduct of a good interaction, scenario 2 would give you a good interaction BECAUSE you complimented her....which won't happen so don't try.

Your prob thinking "a compliment is a compliment whatevr". But that's not tru, it's all in the delivery. While you may not think that you're delivering it any differently there are sub-communicators the needy guy in scenario 2 gives off that reveal the compliment for what it is.....ass kissing.

Women hate needy, but they love vulnerability....and the line between the two can be very very fine. The guy in scenario 1 is allowing himself to be vulnerable. He's giving the girl a bold compliment with no ulterior motive. She now has the power to take advantage of his show of vulnerability by verbally crushing him in anyway she sees fit since he put himself in such a subservient position by making his interest so boldly known. This is where not giving a fuck comes in. A truly secure, non needy man will give that compliment knowing it will probably be the nicest thing shes heard all day and the simple act of making her day, even though he may not know it, is all the payback he needs because making people feel good about themselves makes him feel good. If a fun interaction, a phone number, sex etc happen to come as a biproduct of this compliment, than all the better.

I agree with yo. "Needy" has a negative connotation. We'll just say women want you to need them. I will bet on that every time. Given you are secure with yourself needing her will be what makes her feel whole. Its what makes women fall in love with you. The place that we differ is when you say needy your referring directly to insecurity wich is probably 90% of the time unattractive unless your dealing with a sadistic woman. But my thoughts on that matter don't much matter.

The whole point I'm trying to make, though, is that MOST of the men that turn to pickup are injured men from the get go. These injured men are told by MOST of the community to "not give a fuck". This is not how the system should work. The motto of pickup is supposed to be to leave women better off than they were before you met them but instead theyre viewed as monsters out of an epic greek poem that need to be conquered and tamed by mind games and cold shoulders.

To be someone that gives advice or to be a teacher is a huge responsibility. People don't realize that this site alone is bigger than them. Men flock to this site and sites like it for answers and answers are a lot of the time given irresponsibly because everybody wants to have the answers.

Just something to think about.

I agree with you. I started pickup when I got really hurt by a girl as well, but I have to say I never wanted revenge. I din't want revenge on the women in general as I didn't want revenge on that particular girl. The last one came by itself when she saw that I had changed in a better and more attractive guy.

The thing you say is right and I saw it many times with some guys I met with this forum that then I decided to leave exactly for this reason. In this forum you need to watch out what kind of responses you get because you can never know the intention and the experince of the one talking to you.
What I usually do is see which answer makes more sense from the point of view of my experience, and I usually ignore mysogenistic comments because they are not helpful in any way and actually play against you.
Mysogenistic players are bad players that didn't understand the game in the first place. Why should we listen to them?

Rasputin69, I see your point, but there is not much we can do about it. People have to see beyond their hate for women and open up to a mindset that they don't want to accept. They will hopefully change over time, but new ones will enter the forums. The only thing you can do is ignore them. I just hope that the newbies won't learn from them...