I have been learning and practicing the Social Arts for about 2 years now. I have come to a point where I am not a pro... but I would say I am at least at amateur status... I'm working through some sticking points such as the kiss close and not ejecting from interactions too soon...

I am finding that attracting women and getting into relationships is fairly easy. I also just broke up with a girlfriend of about 6 months, who I became very committed to, but she wanted fun, not domesticity I discovered... So....

I am now declaring myself polyamorus (sp?) and I am dating two women, neither of whom I've slept with yet... though I'm only into hour 6 or so and they are not promiscuous hotties so I'm taking my time... BUT... How do I sleep with more than one woman and not end up getting trapped into a relationship too soon when I'm not ready to commit to anything BUT I do want to have sex with them, along with an old ex who suddenly finds me ultra attractive and keeps chasing me down...

The old ex... will be okay with what we do because she has a boyfriend who lives two hours away and she wants no commitment... One of the new girls is probably going to go with the flow since she's also seeing a couple of other guys... but then there is one who is pretty straight lace... (the most normal and sane of the three... who I like BUT she reminds me of my recent ex and I don't want to get wrapped up in some commitment that may not pan out... I am finding that Oneitis really is a horrible affliction and I am now avoiding the condition at all costs...

I am trying to be open and honest about everything... I've even jokingly started referring to myself as a "Serial Dater" since one of the girls used that term last week... (the normal one... though I think she's lying about being involved with anyone else...)

I don't know how to communicate what my position... though I have been working Ross Jefferies line about "being a busy person" and not having time to get caught up in a serious relationship... am I headed in the right direction? I have no canned routines for these situations and pick up info is light on how to maintain relationships since it focuses mostly on how to get over AA and learning openers and getting number and kiss closes... Also I need some better f-close routines... Styles Evolution Phase Shift doesn't seem to work so well, and that's the only routine I know for an f-close...

I can't let these girls fall to far into the friends zone... I know I have to make them feel comfortable... but when and how do I pull the trigger on my closes...?

I know that's a lot of questioning, but I read your responses on this thread and feel you are qualified to give good advice and look forward to hearing from you...

Sincerely,

~Lovecraft~

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How can a woman be expected to be happy with a man who insists on treating her as if she were a perfectly normal human being. - Oscar Wilde

Follow the FB rules: http://puarticles.blogspot.com/2008/01/ ... rules.html

Start both girls as FB's and then upgrade them if they are suitable (i.e. low drama, good in bed, fun to be around). If you don't act like a boyfriend, then they wont treat you like a boyfriend. You need to communicate (directly or indirectly) that you are not monogamous boyfriend material. There are lots of ways to do this.. tell stories about other dates you've been on, ask them about other guys they've been seeing, leave scandalous things lying around your room (sex books, empty condom wrappers, sex toys, etc).

-Wolf

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Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

That link to Relationship Rules is pure gold... I can't thank you enough, Wolf... You always put up GREAT quality posts... I am going to be heading up to Chicago the weekend of the 20th... Let's hit the clubs on the 19th... I've never sarged with any other PUA's... Let me know how that works out schedule wise...


~Lovecraft~

_________________
How can a woman be expected to be happy with a man who insists on treating her as if she were a perfectly normal human being. - Oscar Wilde

I'm at a point in my game now where I swear by MLTRs. You're really only limited by what your own perceptions are. I game girls as I normally do and usually don't have to face the relationship discussion until after having sex with them. I just hang out with the girl once a week and always push for sex. I limit my texting with her and make it very clear that I'm a busy man. When the question of commitment comes up (and it almost always does) I've found that honesty is the best policy. I just straight up tell her that I'm not in a position to be in a serious relationship and that I'm dating around.

This took me a long time to grasp and implement. I got roped into way too many unwanted relationships because I feared losing the girl. Is there a possibility that she'll walk? Yes. But you'll be happier in the long run knowing that you stood up for what you wanted. Game other girls until you find some that match your desired reality.

Oddly enough, I've found that very few girls walk when you're honest with them about seeing other people. I've even verbally encouraged some girls to date other guys. It's a technique that I once heard from someone else in the community.

"I encourage you to see other guys. Hell if you find one as awesome as me, I'd love to meet him lol. Good guy friends are hard to come by."

Pushing them away often times just drives them closer. Keep your frame strong and try it out.

What would you guys call the stage before FB and how do I navigate that? I am seeing three girls now and I appreciate the advice about only seeing them once a week and push for sex thing... I understand scheduling and limiting texting now... thanx for the advice on limiting text contact... that's huge!

I am somehow feeling like these girls are going to end up putting me in the friend zone...

After hanging out twice with one girl and getting a kiss each time... and hanging out twice with another girl, who I gave sexy foot massage to the second time.... I am unsure of where to go next... I have been really getting comfortable with public kino, but I don't know how to go for the DAMN F-CLOSE - and intimate kino escalation...

I don't want to end up in the "friend zone" however to play into their psychology I am having to maintain an illusion of friendship... or do I? Should I just make it clear that I won't stick around if there's no sex and how do I do that? Should I be soft nexting them..? or perhaps even nexting them... and what about just keeping a few girls around as friends and a plan B... like girls did to me when I was younger...?

I really feel I'm at a turning point in my game and my life... and I so appreciate the advice I've gotten in the past couple of days... I wanna keep this thing moving along... I'm a fast learner and take direction well...

I've been reading some lay reports, which are creepy in a porno mag story sort of way, but oh well, gotta learn somehow... =)

~Lovecraft~

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How can a woman be expected to be happy with a man who insists on treating her as if she were a perfectly normal human being. - Oscar Wilde

Okay, where to begin. The stage before FB is nothing. If you haven't had any kind of sexual activity with a girl, then you don't have a relationship. What are you doing when you hang out with these girls? Do you get them back to your place? Step one is to isolate a girl to a location where you can have sex. I don't even really kiss girls unless this is the case. Kissing just diffuses sexual tension if it's not a warm-up to other things.

How to get her back to your place:

"Do you want to come back to my place for another drink?"
"Want to go back to my place and play backgammon?"
"I just bought this new XYZ, you should come by and check it out"
"What would you like to do now? We can either go get ice cream or we can head back to my place to watch a movie."

Okay, if she comes back to your place then you should pretty much assume that she's open to the idea of sleeping with you. Now is the time when you should kiss them. Once you are making out for a minute or two, then you should start taking her clothes off. Just assume it's on, unless she stops you. If she stops you, then take it in stride. Just change the subject (or keep making out) for a little bit and then try again.

If I haven't slept with a girl after about 3-4 dates, then I just lose interest and stop calling them. If it hasn't happened by then, it's probably safe to assume that you've been friend-zoned. If you ACT like a friend, then she'll put you in the friend zone. If you act like a high-value guy who gets laid a lot, then she'll treat you like a potential sex partner. Also, for the record, it's fine to keep some of them as friends. It's never bad to have a lot of cute female friends.

-Wolf

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Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

I invited one of the girls I'm seeing to join me while I played open mic night. We came back to my place and the rest is history... U GUYS ARE AWESOME!!!!

Thank you so much for the advice over the last week... The girl I got with is a Freak with low-self esteem and high sex drive... She has a baby's daddy, and is super into drama...

First I am wondering, since she needs drama... how do I create some fun false drama that I am in control of... I figure I might as well keep it interesting for her...
but I don't want to get caught up in HER drama... I don't give a crap about her ex or any other guys she's seeing...

And... How do I keep her in the FB zone and not let her upgrade herself into relationship status... She has been telling me how promiscuous she is... I fucked her hard like I was advised in one of the linked blogs and commitment never came up... but she called me yesterday about 7 hours after I dropped her off - I brushed her off since I was busy... but I thought I should text her something funny before bed and did... and then she called and started shit testing me talking about other guys and how they were gonna buy her things... (could she be a ho too?)

But I decided to just act bored not talk and told her I had to crash... So how do I limit communication and keep her as a FB... I need to have 2 more like her so that I can have MLTR's... but I can't have MLTR's when there's just one girl... or is it okay to upgrade her already...? It seems too soon, but I could be wrong... I feel like I should schedule her for 2 days a week and then work on picking up/fucking other girls too... or should I just leave her as a FB and string her along... which I think is what she want's anyways... ?

~Lovecraft~

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How can a woman be expected to be happy with a man who insists on treating her as if she were a perfectly normal human being. - Oscar Wilde