Long story short I met a girl who has a lot of interests in common with me, but has a boyfriend.

We've talked for hours until 4 AM some days, I've even gotten her to come back to my apartment and we spend many days together sometimes, her sleeping over.


I don't know much about the game, but I do know that you need to be dominant and masculine. I make sure she sleeps in my bed, i hold her in a dominant way when we are around in person, and everything.

Anyway, I'm stuck in one point. I can't get her to have sex with me. So far I've managed to get her clothes off, finger her, make out with her, and I performed oral sex on her. One time, and one time only, she performed oral sex on me briefly, and she has given me a few half-assed handjobs that I didn't even get hard for because I could tell she felt guilty as she did it.

She refuses to break up with her boyfriend, who is much older than her (10 years) and me as well, but he lives in another state.Her reasoning? "I GET ATTACHED TO PEOPLE" .

My confidence fell in the past 2 months because I was very sick with a rare , but temporary illness, and lost about 10 pounds all of muscle which means I am skinnier than ever (about 5'7 and 135 lbs). I became a blubbering little vagina for a while and talked about how sad and lonely I felt because even she, with all the things she has in common with me, won't leave her boyfriend for me.

I'm trying to salvage this one, I'm pretending to have other girls talking to me (they are, but they are not really attractive). She was acting very annoying and irrational about a month ago when I saw her and i told her we needed some space together because I was frankly tired of her shit. She was kind of drifting off away from me but I think now that I've regained my confidence she is talking to me again and wants to meet up later this week.

She always says she likes me, and we've both said we love eachother a few times, but that she would NEVEr cheat on her boyfriend sexually (LOL). I didn't bring up all the sexual things I do to her (so that I don't guilt her into stopping doing them), I reminded her that emotional cheating (she has admitted to thinking about leaving her boyfriend for me but that I am too "wild" and only am looking for sex ) is still cheating and again she did not respond. The last few times I had met her though she was far more resistnat to me doing sexual things to her which made me frustrated, but she claims its because I'm very rough (i can be when i am horny) and that I Have to "ease into it". (something I'm working on)

Where should I go from here? She makes her boyfriend out to be a pretty great guy despite the fact that he lives 4 states away, ignores her, is a lot older, is boring and frankly, is not very intelligent. I have some amateur material to AMOG him, but as of late she has started to take offense to it ("while that's true, you wouldnt want to hear all the good things about him, he treats me really well"). When she blatantly insults him however I lightly defend him ("maybe he's busy when he ignores you"), but other times she tells me things so retarded about this guy (like how he thinks fart jokes are hilarious) that I can't help but start to attack him, not because it's her boyfriend, but because he is a moron. I'm pretty shocked that I even need game for this girl considering all the things we have in common (some pretty rare hobbies and interests that few men and even fewer women are involved in), I'm completely stumped.

I've done a lot of amazing, up and beyond DHV with this girl that would probably have gotten any girl but this one, but also a lot of extreme AFC behavior, depending on how I'm feeling that day, there's a 50-50 chance I could make this work. I don't even care about being her boyfriend, I would actually prefer to keep her as a good friend, just one who I have sex with.

Maybe she feels guilty, too guilty to cheat on her boyfriend. if she has sex with you shel probably feel slutty and unloyale. Although this other guy doesnt seem to be around that often, if she has time to stay over at you place and hang with you so much :/

Pretty much, they see eachother a few times a month, she even told me she spends more time with me than any other guy she's ever known. And while yes, she'll probably LJBF me if I let her, I refuse to, I made her a promise that I will be inside her eventually She said I was "too much" thought it was funny probably, but I am very serious. It's a battle of wills between me getting with her, and her trying to LJBF me or telling me "we'll see in the future" but me not letting her.

The guy she's dating picked her up out of high school when she was 16 and he was in his late 20's. He just has her around as a booty call, but you know how stupid women are, especially if a guy is much older and can run laps around them.

Based on what you said and going off of my own experience, she's confused about what she wants. (As an aside, I'm convinced that most heartache and behaviour that can be construed as leading another person on stems from this.) Likely she has a future-oriented view; hence, it isn't just what state she and both of you are in now, but what kind of future (whether short or long term) she can conceive of with both of you. Her boyfriend is a known entity while you are still a bit of an unknown (despite the amount of time that you've spent together). Her perception that you may want her just for the sex isn't helping, of course, a perception that, based upon what you've said, isn't far wrong. Yes, you want to keep her as a friend even if she keeps her boyfriend, but as a fwb. That approach is likely to encourage her view that you just want her for sex.

It's very easy to slip into the area of emotional cheating without realizing it--I stuggle greatly with this one. For me, it's simple, physical cheating is a clear line in the sand; one that, having once crossed, I have absolutely no desire to go near ever again. The lines for emotional cheating are not so clear-cut and much easier to violate without realizing it. Theses boundaries are also a lot harder to reestablish once they've been crossed.

The attachment issue is likely a legitimate one, btw. I suffer from the same. You may perceive of her relationship as being terrible, and it may be, but she likely hasn't recognized--or fully recognized--that fact because somewhere, she's still in love with and attached to the guy. (Age can be a factor here, but this is getting long enough without me discussing this tipic as well).

The girl that you're involved with here simply has to make a choice--this kind of situation is not sustainable and has a liklihood of hurting those involved. I know that you've said you are and would be fine with this, but, based upon your post, I get the sense that it's more of a "well, if I can't get what I really want, this will do" and less of an ideal. If you're really fine with that please feel free to ignore the following advice.

I know that she seems perfect for you in terms of the interests that you share and that you've had a lot of fun together, but the reality is that no one is irreplacable. Every single person is compatible with multiple other people; who you have sex with, date, and marry--if one is so inclined--is based far more upon when the people meet and what stage they are in their lives (particularly for the marriage and relationship bits) than the actual people involved. If your happy settling for second fiddle that's absolutely fine, but realize that it is what you're doing--something that I would also advise everyone to avoid.

From what you've said, you've already done what you can do--now don't make it so easy for her. Based on what you've said, she's been having the best of both worlds--the boyfriend who is several states away and you. Be less available--don't let her "have her cake and eat it too"--ie. both the boyfriend and you--because you're better than that; no one is worth playing second fiddle for because you feel that it's the best you can do. It isn't.

I feel the problem plays here.
This is not going to work, if she will leave her boyfriend for you. You have to be her up following boyfriend.
That is her whole issue and apparently she knows that you just want sex, I read in your text.

So having her as friend + sex is no option in my view.

What you can do is, tell her you want her as GF and don't want this bullshit about her current boyfriend. And she will have to choose, because there are a lot of other women you could spend your time on, instead of wasting all of it, in something that will not go anywhere.
Then freeze her for a while, because I feel she acts this way, because she can get away with it and you don't undertake any action as well (which I completely understand, because it fine the way it it, only you want to having sex g-damnit).

But yeah, it's what I think you should do to get laid.


And Melissa, I've read some of your post and it's not that I disagree on everything, but something annoys me. Now personally I get annoyed by almost all women on this forum, even tough you should expect man to be happy with a womens perspective on this topic.
But what annoys me the most is the large amount of text before there is a thing actually useful.
I totally agree on this and I know you have all the best intentions spending your time writing this for us, but please keep the hazy stuff out. It still remains a Pick Up Artist Forum.

I would definitely rather have her as a girlfriend than not at all. I know I'm going to catch a lot of flak for this but to be honest no other woman in the past 6 months has really caught my attention at all except this one. I want this girl and there ARE (just have to be) some mutual feelings.

Does anyone have any more advice on boyfriend destroyers etc.

Zendelo--I must confess some amusement, since the other night in the chatroom people were becoming suspicious about my gender because I wasn't emotional enough. I gave up a long time ago on pleasing other people rhetorically; most do not appreciate how I blend the sterotypical masculine/feminine engagement styles. I am who I am and refuse to change in order to either accomodate or please others.

Heli--I realize that this must be incredibly frusterating for you, but don't overdo the boyfriend destroyers; push too hard and you might end up pushing her away.

I wouldn't normally help a guy who wants to snatch a girl away from her boyfriend but long distance relationships are fucking stupid and she's being an idiot.

Step 1: Freeze her out a few days
Step 2: When you see her next, make sure you get a bunch of calls or texts from girls you know, even if they're just friends. (This is easy, on your way to your date or whatever, send a mass text to like 10 girls just saying "omg the most random thing happened! Gimme a call when you get a minute.") Take the time to speak to them for a few minutes, have a fun chat, and then say goodbye, in front of her, so she knows that you have other options and this will create jealousy.

These things will top up your attraction levels.

Step 3: Reconnect in that comfort zone and continue establishing those commonalities. Find her passions and desires and qualify her about them. Hint to her about those things you find important, then when she displays those, qualify, reward, kino. Get her to display compliance, then reward her for it (mainly with...you guessed it...KINO!)
Step 4: Kino escalate, but this time remember to use push-pull, 2 steps forward, 1 step back. From what you wrote it seems like you push too hard for sex and make the girl feel like she has to allow you to do it, or is forced into doing it to you. She should WANT IT. This means giving her a little kino, making sure it's comfortable, then breaking off. Then re-initiating, moving further, then breaking away, etc. Always be the first to break off and she will be the one wanting you to re-initiate.

Deal with the boyfriend issue in a couple of ways. First, if she mentions him say "yeah that actually reminds me of this thing my ex-gf did" and change the subject from her guilt-trip to your DHV.

Create a fun little story where it's you and her and it's this naughty little secret that nobody's allowed to find out. This makes it like a role play, just a game for her, and it brings you two closer whilst pushing those feelings of guilt away and making the whole thing more exciting.

The idea is to sweep her into your world, make it an amazing, fun, totally comfortable experience with a great, funny, and non-judgemental guy who is dominant, confident and takes ALL THE RESPONSIBILITY away from her. She will be telling her boyfriend a few days later "it just...happened."

Please use this wisely and remember, there are still 3 billion women out there, try and choose the SINGLE ones next time!

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Thanks blond guy, I will try all your advice tomorrow when I meet her. I don't go out looking for girls with boyfriends, but all the girls who i find physically and intellectually attractive already have boyfriends, and this is probably true for 99% of them. Most of the time I am more compatible with them than their current boyfriends which makes their emotional attachment to them really annoying. Almost all average and good looking women I've ever met with good personalities have atleast 5 guys pining for them.

When you see her next, make sure you get a bunch of calls or texts from girls you know, even if they're just friends. (This is easy, on your way to your date or whatever, send a mass text to like 10 girls just saying "omg the most random thing happened! Gimme a call when you get a minute.") Take the time to speak to them for a few minutes, have a fun chat, and then say goodbye, in front of her, so she knows that you have other options and this will create jealousy.


This is diabolical...I love it.

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Keep people off-balance and in the dark by never revealing the purpose behind your actions. - Robert Greene

Any more pointers before I go see her tomorrow evening?