Hi there everyone. Can you guess what time is it? Yep, it's time for In$tinct to rant again, and dissolve some stupid common misbelieves here in the community. Today's topic is double standards. I will list the most common ones.

Double standard (DS from now on) #1 A girl who had sex with many guys/is into friends with benefits is a slut.

Yeah, this is just some really fucked up shit. When a guy has sex with many women he's alpha, but when a girl does it she's a slut. Don't even start on me with the locks, and the master key, it's BS and irrelevant. Guys' dicks are not keys, and girls' pussies are not locks. They are what they are, and they were created/evolved(whatever you believe) to fuck. I understand that many guys don't look at these girls as relationship material because they're concerned about their loyality. That is completely okay. You should have your own boundaries(within a reasonable range of course) when it comes to committing to a girl. But labeling them just as sluts, and disrespecting them (aka. using them, lying to them, getting mad at them when you're fucking them and you find out someone else also does while you're not in a committed relationship) is just a double standard. Not only is this ignorance at its best, this mindset will be very counterproductive. When you're looking for a ONS, or a fuck-buddy, you will have to screen for these women. And if they feel like you perceive them as sluts, that will not end with having sex, for sure.

DS #2 Girls are not allowed to have guy friends when they are in a committed relationship, but you should have as many women friends "just in case" and to keep abundance as possible.

I find the amount of people who label this completely natural thing disrespectful is disturbingly high. In fact, a post about this was the last drip in the glass that made me write this rant. I think if I wanted a quality girl as my girlfriend who didn't have any guy friends, and orbiters, I would be searching for eternity.

Thing is this. You barely ever have to worry about those guy friends that she mentions. If she cheats, she will do it with a guy you most likely haven't even heard of. Because she would be an idiot to raise your attention to guys she is banging. But then why does she bring up the other guys, might you ask? Well it's quite simple, since they're just regular friends for her, she won't even have a second thought about that this should disturb you in any way(and to be fair, she is completely right). They are part of her life, and if you don't allow her to share her life with you, then I don't know what you expect, but as long as you keep that mindset, you will never have a healthy relationship, that's for sure.

People who complain about this are usually either very insecure, or have trust issues because they either think their girlfriend is out of their league, or they have been cheated on with guy friends in the past. What they don't realise though, is that in the last case, it was not the guy friend. In fact, she would have cheated with anyone else, but somehow the guy friend was at the right time at the right place. Cheating is never the cause of the end of a relationship. It is a result of the complete failure of the relationship.

Now to really think about it, a reason that is occasionally mentioned is that a woman would be able to fuck most of her guy friends if she wanted, while a guy usually can't do the same. While that may be true, the logic is flawed on that women don't really want to fuck their guy friends. At least, most of the time they really don't...even if they could.

Off: To be fair, in the topic, OP mentioned that the girl was flirting with some other guy, and that the intentions were questionable. I even agreed to that the relationship should end, but then some other dudes came up throwing this double standard as some general rule, and it made me pissed off.

On:

DS #3

This is more like a cathegory of DSs affecting both sides, and it is irritating because they can cause bad calibration, or overthinking.

Including:
You should be paying for first dates(No you don't. I split bills at least 90% of the time)
She should be the one to say I love you first(Doesn't fucking matter. There is a time and a place for this to say it, and it is completely irrelevant to the fact whether she said it already or not)
Men are completely forbidden to cry in front of their girlfriends and it will result in her losing attraction. (Yeah, if you are a cry baby then I guess that's true. But then again I wonder why my girlfriend hasn't yet lost attraction when during finals' week, I got a call that my mom had been admitted to a Psychiatry because of a suspicion of involuntary suicide attempt)
Men should not care about their girlfriends' problems, that's what their friends are for.(Again, if your girlfriend is only whining constantly over every insignificant BS, then yes, it is annoying. But when she occasionally has a real problem, it is the men's job to provide support, and to make her feel safe.)

Etc... etc... I could list a shitton of others. The problem with most of them is that while most of them might be true given reasonable circumstances, without bounderies, they are just generalizations that are counterproductive, and they lead to needy/douchebag behaviour. Any time you hear something like this:
"Guys should always/never... Girls should always/never..." It is some fucked up DS 99% of the time.

DS #4 If a girl has the looks, she can have any guy he wants, but the guy must be real good to have a quality women.

Yeah, the interesting thing with this double standard is that it is very common, yet everything about it is untrue. While an extremely hot girl really has a big pool for guys to choose from, there is a great possibility of that many of those guys just want to fuck her. Now on the other hand, there are tons of superficial women who will fuck the shit out of a hot guy with no game whatsoever too. Also, some girls have really weird taste when it comes to guys. Actually women's taste differ a lot more than men's, in my opinion, so in fact, it's the guys who have more real options.

DS #5 Guys are not allowed to be needy, girls are.

I don't know about you guys, but what I want is an independent woman. I don't want to spend my days dealing with all kinds of insecurities of hers 24/7. I will in fact lose my attraction to a woman if she depends on me way too much, the same way as women do with guys. But this is just me, perhaps some of you are okay with being her saviour, though I really think that in the long run it gets frustrating and tiring, and I speak from experience.

That's it for now. Feel free to add other double standards to the list that you notice are a common theme here in the community.

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Pretty true. I hear these double standards all the time from my less experienced friends.

One thing I will say about the slut one is that, while there is a double standard, I think males should be able to judge their significant other. If they are looking for a hookup, then there need not be judgement, but if you are going into a long term relationship, a guy has every right to be concerned about her past. Personally, I wouldn't want to have a girlfriend who has slept with half the football team, but I might be game to have a casual relationship with her.

You make a good point at the end, where you talk about the use of absolutes, like never and always. These are seldom true. There are always exceptions to the rule, and really that's one of the main things I have taken away from pick up. Almost anything can work to get someone in a certain circumstance.

Female here, and *ducks for cover* I self-ID as feminist.

Believe me, these double standards piss me off a lot.

That being said, OP, if I heard this in my actual presence, panties = dropped.

ALSO...

Another enraging double standard...

WOMEN ALWAYS GETTING KIDS IN A DIVORCE. I have an acquaintance who has 8 kids, and she's not even 30 yet. She has them by 3 different guys, and one guy actually cares about his offspring's well-being while the other two do not. The guy who wanted to take his kid and raise it has a job, is relatively sober, and also does not have a crime record. The courts refused to let him have the kid saying that "A child needs a mother's love." Meanwhile, I've watched in horror as she smoked hard (and I'm talking WTF level hard) drugs in front of her five year old. I've actually called child services on her before, and she somehow managed to hide her drug use.

Ugh, I hate society.

No need to duck for cover. No reasonable person hates on TRUE feminists. All the hate around them is caused by sorry women, who can't take responsibility for their own faults, and blame men for everything. That is disgusting. As far as I remember, feminism is about equal legal and social rights for men and women (I don't want to simply say gender equality because that's impossible due to simple biology), and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

P.S.: You can keep those panties on for now. I have a girlfriend

_________________
"Bros before hoes"

Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

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Lucky girl!

I'm in a relationship too. But yeah, it's hard to explain to people why feminism is awesome at times. There is a definite 'us vs. them' mentality among women, and at times, even I tend to fall into that habit. But when push comes to shove, I don't think women are happy about the roles they often are forced to take, and the assumptions people make about them.

Absolutely agreed, on both extremes. By that I mean women who want to be stay at home mums taking care for their family, and then their "emancipated" friends are hard pressing them for "not realizing themselves", and I also feel sorry for the ones who would like a decent carrier and their families are pushing on them their agenda of what a woman's role should be in their way of thinking. Both of these cases must be extremely frustrating, I can only remotely imagine.

On the other hand, this distorted image of gender roles in society cause problems to men too. First of all, their partner's frustration will most probably not help the relationship itself, especially since many men tend to be not too understanding about these kinds of issues which can lead to lots of problems. And there's also this other thing, that many men feel like they lose their manliness if their spouse makes more money, or is more successful in their carrier. It'd be just better for everyone if these standards would finally disappear.

What takes a real man is the capability to make his partner feel like a woman. To make her feel that she can take off that mask she is wearing for everyone else. A man who doesn't judge her, confident in his sexuality, trusting his partner, and enriching the life of his family with value(not talking about material value)

What takes a real woman is compassion. Giving her man something that no other woman can, providing emotional support, patience, and being trustful. A woman who can please her man with who she is, not with what she has, how she looks, or what she can do.

Anything other than these is I think completely redundant, and shouldn't be taken as a standard, and still, sadly, it is hard to find real men or real women out there.

_________________
"Bros before hoes"

Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

http://wayoftheplayer.com/become-a-player/instinct

First off, good thread. I personally am not a fan of the Madonna-Whore complex.

Now, the disagreement. Gender differences among men and women are real. Without laws or religion-inspired morals, the survival of the human species will be at stake.

There's a big difference between Gender Standards and Double Standards. Trivers et al rightfully noted that men can impregnate lots of women while a woman has to take care of a fertilized ovum for 9 months on the average. In this regard, US laws instituted child support to protect the female gender. Is it fair? Absolutely.

Now, what if the woman has the child of another man and is demanding child support from her ex-husband who is the non-biological father? Depending on the state law, a paternity test will free the poor ex-husband from this unnecessary burden. Is it fair? But of course.

A double standard lies along the lines of women not allowed in an F-16 cockpit since combat-readiness is a state priority. If some idiot feminist congressman or congresswoman passes a law to allow women in fighter planes leading to the redesign of cockpits so pregnant women can fit in, then that's a double standard.

Gender standards and double standards are very different even in pick up.

For instance, I earn 10 times more than most of the girls I'm banging. When we go out for lunch, I treat some of these girls out spending something like their entire day's wages on one meal which is around 20 to 30 minutes of work wages from my end.

For most of the vocal PUAs around here, I'll immediately get branded as an AFC provider and other such bullshit. But these girls spend 15% to 20% of their daily wage just so they can make a phone call or send a cheesy text message. They spend 2 or 3 days worth of wages just to dress and look good when we hang out. They even buy new underwear via lay away plans that cost around their entire week's wages just so they'll look very sexy when I fuck them.

This is one PUA b.s. that needs to be corrected. Girls reciprocate. It does not mean shit when I treat them out to a good meal.

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I guess I would just like to add to the discussion or maybe slightly disagree or attempt to clarify some points.

DS 1: I personally find this one the most irrigating and prevalent in society. You hear it allllllllll the time. You can read about it all over this site. If a girl has too many sex partners she’s a whore/slut/dirty/skank/ or about 1000 other lovely names. If she’s a virgin or inexperienced she’s a prude/cocktease/etc.
It feels like no matter what you do some one’s going to have a nasty opinion of it. It’s not surprising that more and more women are saying “Fuck it. I’m just going to do what I want.” But we still face repercussions. Ex: I met a guy in a bar, he tried to get me to go home with him. I declined but we exchanged numbers. He called me the next day and we dated for awhile. He told me that if I had gone home with me that night that he would’ve never had me as a girlfriend. Wtf? I didn’t tell him no because I’m “a good girl who doesn’t believe in one night stands.” I didn’t go home with him because I just wasn’t that into him that night.

DS2: This sounds almost like a sign of abuse to me. It would be a HUGE red flag if you’re dating someone who started demanding that you stop seeing your friends regardless of gender. It’s also a sign of insecurity and jealousy that nobody wants to deal with in a relationship. I honestly believe that if someone is just friends with an ex it’s a good sign. It shows that they know how to behave in a relationship as well as during a break-up. If all they have is a line of “enemy exes” or “crazy exes” then they’re the common denominator. They’re the problem and should be avoided.

DS3: About paying… I always go by the rule who ever asked who out should pay for the first date. Once you start dating regularly you should switch off unless someone (gender doesn’t matter) makes significantly more money than the other person. Then it’s just a courtesy for the person who makes more to pick up the more expensive tabs. The other person can bring other things to the table like making dinner or picking up a bottle of wine occasionally.
As for the other stuff it’s about being in a real partnership, which is what I believe we’re all striving for. We should care about each other’s problems, saying I love you is awesome and its okay to cry, sometimes life is a bitch and it’s important to let it out. If either person is crying all the time then there may be a problem.

DS4: Oh the looks argument. I’ll say this: Looks can get you in the door but their *usually* not enough to make someone stay long term without something to back them up. Regardless of gender. This also varies in importance from person to person.

DS5: Please don’t let anyone be needy! It’s draining on the other person regardless of gender. I think we all know what excessive neediness looks like and it’s not cute.

Gender Equality: I believe this is about judging a person based on their abilities not on their genitals. Can all women be firefighters? No. Neither can all men. Same with being a pre-school teacher. There are some of each gender who are qualified for the job and neither should be turned down JUST because they have a vagina or penis.

Fighter Pilot Combat Ready: Pregnant women wouldn’t be combat ready. But other women are. Some men aren’t combat ready for a variety of reasons (chronic illness, color blind, broken arm, etc). As I stated above: case by case basis.

I agree that these double standards are stupid when you break them down but as Hellhound said, they have their place for a reason. Women and men aren't the same. We're wired differently, attracted to different things, are raised differently. Note: I DO NOT SUPPORT THESE DS but a forum is a place for discussion.
For eg, while I don't believe that telling your girl that she should have no guy friends while you keep girls on the back burner is ok, there is a point here. Typically, men are the ones who make the first move, so a girl hanging with guy friends is a bigger risk of "slipping" than a guy. Whereas a guy would have to escalate in most instances, a girl may just allow something to happen. Also, guys have a tougher time after a break up due to how we are raised and how we interact with friends. A girl gets dumped and she has alot of more support systems, family, friends and can easily go out and get validation. Even an average girl will have guys hitting on her the next night at the bar, friends consoling her. An average guy on the other hand, will get less attention than an average girl and your guy friends typically aren't going to give you much emotional support. So this double standard can at least take some of the sting out of a breakup if it does happen.

Even the slut/alpha thing has a point. A girl can get laid alot easier than a guy. The average girl can walk into a bar with the "Apocalypse" opener and leave with a better looking guy in 5mins. The average guy can't do this, and even the best "PUAs" will only claim this works once in a while after 100 approaches. Also, the dynamics of sex play a part. Women are generally smaller than men, and sex is an act where a man penetrates a woman. Most sex that people have involves the woman "submitting" to a man physically. Now you may not have sex like this, I may not, but the majority of people do. So a girl having lots of sex says she has submitted to many men as opposed to a man when it says they have made many girl's submit to them. The consequences and risks of a ONS are weighted more on a woman. Std's are fairly equal risk, but pregnancy and abortion from a ONS is a bigger risk to the woman who has to go through the pregnancy or abortion or must find the man for support. Rape is also a bigger risk for women. So a female "slut" is someone who has taken more risks than a male slut.

I think if we stopped giving these negative labels to women who are active sexually, the world would be a much happier place. Stop with the "sluts, whores, filthy whatever" and start accepting it. You don't have to go as far as complimenting it but accept the fact that other people, particularly of the opposite sex, will have sex. Maybe once more guys stop these negative labels, the social stigma of being a slut or a whore will wear off and more women will be free to have sex when they want to without being afraid of social embarrassment.

Some good points, and whilst I agree with Instinct on the social dynamics pointed out here and the equal rights etc., I must disagree with the biological side of the argument, which is something not mentioned in the original post.

We are mammals. There is no denying that. In the animal kingdom, the most desirable male is the alpha. All the females find him the most sexually attractive and will fight each other to get his sperm. Naturally, the alpha fucks most of the females, for as far as his libido will take him. In order for the opposite situation to happen (i.e. what most people would call "party girl sluts"), the male:female ratio would have to be an unnaturally large majority male, which would then cause a scarcity of females to mate with. This would give those scarce females an equally unnaturally large choice of males. Their female instinct here is not to mate with more males, but to simply raise the bar in terms of the standard of male they are willing to accept. This is why you hear HB10's saying shit like "I won't date a guy under 6'ft" or "a guy who doesn't have a car" because they are subconsciously screening for alphas. However, there are some girls a bit further down the pecking order (HB7s) who cannot sit around waiting for an alpha to fuck them, so they deliberately choose a beta AFC guy for a long-term relationship, who will be their loyal provider. These women will then cheat on the AFC beta (either openly or secretly) when they have the opportunity to run into an alpha with solid game. The beta mammal in this situation does not go seeking out another female, because he fails to see he can have women in abundance. He doesn't feel like he deserves it, due to lack of self-worth, entitlement and weakness. When such a beta mammal is faced with the threat of an alpha, he either desperately attempts to compete with the alpha (**see drunken bar fights on YouTube) or... he simply waits until the alpha has finished fucking his woman, accepts his beta frame in the situation, then takes her back.

The difference between these two biological situations is that the standard scenario for mammals is for the few alphas (e.g. celebrities, rock stars, rich guys and master PUAs) to mate with all the females and for the majority beta males (= AFC's) to either go without mating at all (**see Internet porn) or just pick up the scraps left over by the alphas (HB6's). This is our natural way of life as mammals. Even if we use the example of China's One-Child policy, which has led to villages with a massive shortage of females... You would think that such a situation would lead to the most highly-prized females being arrogantly promiscuous, just sleeping around to get as much dick as possible, right? But they don't. They simply raise the bar of standards of males they're willing to mate with. Which leaves a lot of Chinese beta guys out of the equation, guys who literally NEVER get laid, live alone and some are even virgins. Another example is when the girl loses that passion for her boyfriend's sperm. I've seen many posts on the Relationships forums from guys who are not getting any sex from their wives / girlfriends. What's going on here is just the psychology of our biology. Sub-consciously, that beta behaviour from her male is making her pussy dry and she craves after those glimpses of alphaness in him. If she doesn't find it in him, she will find it elsewhere and get stronger sperm from another male. So it's the females who are just very cleverly narrowing their gene-pool. This screening for stronger sperm is even more pronounced when the females are at the top of their pecking order (HB10s). The ideal plan is to get pregnant with the alpha's strong sperm, then if the alpha cannot stick around to rear the child, the beta will be able to provide a stable environment for the alpha's child. There are real life examples of this, e.g. a married woman who has a child outside wedlock. In this example, the beta is often unaware that the child is not his own (**see Jerry Springer "Who's your daddy?" plot lines).

Instinct, I commend your quest for equal rights for women; I fully support you from a political and legal point of view. But on a biological level it doesn't work, because males and females are hard-wired to respond to sexual opportunities differently. Many women like rough sex, like hair-pulling, being man-handled / wrestled or being tied up in a bondage scenario by Christian Grey. Why are these such common female fantasies which I love fulfilling for the women I fuck? Because only an alpha can get away with such sexual behaviour and it is the alpha's powerful behaviour which makes her pussy wet. This is why even just mimicking alpha behaviour can get you laid with stunning women, regardless of whether you are a true alpha or not.