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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:09 am 
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Alright, so here's a bigass wake-up call to the majority of the people on this forum. I will not just sit back and watch this forum go down the toilet as a bunch of KJs allow themselves to represent this site.

As many of you may already know, a lot of what I preach has a lot to to with taming your ego. Why? Simply put, allowing your ego to guide you holds you back in ways you can't even imagine. Your ego is by far the greatest obstacle in self-improvement, mastering the pickup arts, and your overall path to self-actualization.

Virgins with less than a dozen forum posts are hanging out in the PUA chat all day giving advice and making themselves sound better at game than they actually are. People are posting routines they write up before field-testing them. Lay reports are more often than not sounding like brag reports. Newbies are asking questions, getting answers, but choosing not to go out and do what they know they need to do. Intermediate PUAs log on every day to get their fix off of giving advice without moving forward themselves. Both newbies and intermediates are complaining about how other AFCs that they know aren't willing to become their students.

I am not exempt from guilt. Every single person, including myself, on this planet has at some point in their lives allowed the egos to determine their actions. Even when guys are just starting off, they're starting off the wrong way, having their egos motivate them. Because of this, I pledge to consistently try to remain conscious of my ego and constantly work to keep it in the back seat.

If you see someone like Mystery on the VH1 show and think, "Wow, I want to be able to pick up any girl I see. I want other guys to envy me and see me as some sort of super-powered Casanova," you're fucking starting out on the wrong foot.

If you hear about how guys go around making out with random chicks within 30 seconds and think "Wow, I want that superpower so other guys can envy me," you're in the wrong mindset.

If you find yourself giving a bunch of advice to people when you haven't even tried half the stuff you're preaching in the field, you're doing it just so other guys can look at you and say, "Wow, you're amazing!" Fuck that shit.

Do all that stuff and you may fool other guys, but guess who you're NOT fooling? You're not fooling girls. THEY can smell the stench of ego-motivated behavior from a mile away and it stinks as bad as desperation. Wonder why you're not getting laid? It's because the girls can sense, "Oh, it feels like he needs to validate his ego off of me. Ew. How objectifying. What a creep."

Guess who else you're not fooling? Yourself. This is even more important because it makes you feel unworthy on a deeper level and constructs all these ridiculous success barriers that you may never even see.

Become the best man you could possibly be while humbling yourself to the fact that you currently are not at that level. Help your fellow brothers who are on the same path as you, but know that all men on this same path are equals, so give advice in a way that primarily helps others pull themselves up instead of doing it in a way that forces them to look up to you. That's a community.

EDIT:
I am adding a much-needed second part to this post.

OK, so if your ego isn't going to be your motivation, WHAT IS? What is going to fuel your desire for practicing this wonderful hobby? Whatever happened to becoming the best man you can be? Doesn't "best" kinda imply ego-driven goals? Sure, you should be driven by a desire to sincerely improve yourself, and yes that is a necessary component (after you remove the ego, of course), but there is something else...

Whatever happened to a genuine love for women? Here's a post straight out of my blog:
Quote:
I was having a conversation with one of my pledge brothers today and he was asking me why I do this whole pickup thing.

I remember when I first started liking girls. I was really young - second grade. My first crush was this blonde girl named Jessica, and that's all I remember about her. From that early age I started developing a deep appreciation for feminimity and for both the pain and joy it brings to my life. I learned to really love women. Seriously, I love women to death now. I think they're the most beautiful creations on the face of this planet, physically, mentally, spiritually. I am grateful for pickup; it showed me how to express my appreciation for such beauty without being a creeper lol.

My pledge brother was under the impression that I saw women as objects, and he brought it up when I was comparing pickup to a hobby that he liked to do, swimming.

I told him that, like pickup, the reason a swimmer would continue swimming after he had achieved all he wanted to achieve (mastering the discipline, winning trophies and competitions, etc.) would be because he simply loved to swim.

"OK, so if pickup is to women as swimming is to water, wouldn't that mean you're treating women as things?" he asked. By his logic, water is a thing, and according to that analogy, a woman would also be a thing.

I poured my heart out when I replied, connecting to that part of me that really felt a loving passion for the female half of our species, "No. Even though I'm not a swimmer, I can imagine that if I were a swimmer who was really passionate about swimming, I wouldn't see water as a thing. I'd look out into the ocean and I wouldn't just see WATER. I'd see a partner. Every droplet of water that touches my skin when I'm moving through that ocean would be a little taste of enlightenment. And I would feel on a gut-level that the ocean was actually HAPPY for me to swim in it."

"Touche."
We can't be so egotistical as to shine the spotlight of focus exclusively on ourselves in this performance art. The audience is one of the most important parts.


Last edited by Chief on Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:15 pm 
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I have to say good post. Something that is happening allot lately is this ego problem..

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:34 pm 
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But chief, i am fucking amazing :lol:

Seriously tho, its ever so true. What i would like to add is that its even more annoying when people feel a need to comment and give advice when they dont actaully know what their talking about. How many posts have you recently seen started with "I am only new but..." or "i dont really but i would.."! This is a personal hate of mine, i understand some of these people might be trying to be humble about what they know, but dont feel the need to comment on everything thread or question, quiality is by far better than quantity...
Madals
edit: one thing i forgot to mention is sometimes KJs are a benifit to people who are actually doing it. The majoy downside of a KJ is they are kidding themselves, they arnt doing it. However, they are still an intereative book for people who WANT to do it and ARE trying to do it. They will have read all the books, know all their stuff they just dont have the guts to do it... doesnt mean they dont know what they should do. In my opinion i dont mind KJs like that, sure they arnt as good as some1 who is doing it, but they are still better than nothing.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:43 pm 
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I agree completely. It really bugs me when newbies ask how long it takes to become an "mPUA", as if that label actually means something. It serves no purpose other than boosting their ego; they want to get a quick fix, call themselves a PUA and go show off to their friends. They know who they are. They're the guys who want to know what the best method is, how long it takes, and if it really works (translation: if it's worth their time). Whatever happened to going and finding what works for you and calibrating based on your in-field experience? I'm not saying they shouldn't ask advice, that's what we're here for, but so many are asking all the wrong questions and approaching this completely the wrong way. They don't give us nearly enough information to work with either.

Then there are the KJ's who give advice as if they actually know what they're doing. If you're not talking from experience, you aren't speaking from the heart and you can't genuinely help anyone understand what you're saying because all you're doing is repeating what you read somewhere. Get your ass out there and live life, or at least have the decency to be honest and say you aren't talking from real experience. Then people have the choice to get a second opinion, and they'll respect you more for it. Like chief says, it's ego. Quit it. I'm not saying that if you're brand new here you can't give advice, but if you do, you'd better not be asking basic questions from others at the same time. I see guys asking for help with very simple problems, ones they wouldn't be having in the first place if they took the same advice they were handing out, and all I can do is smile and shake my head. It's not funny though.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:55 pm 
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Dalziel, i disagree with you about some1 who knows what to do but has never experienced it not being able to help... how many coaches for olympic teams have ever been at an internation level at the sport they coach? not many. Does this mean they dont know what their talking about? no.
Ofc that isnt a perfect match, and i am not condoning KJs, but if they know their stuff would u not agree it will be helpful?
Madals

Edit: before i start, i am not flaming any1 and i see all your points of view, its just i slightly disagree on some.
People dont all act the same way when doing something new. While in field when it comes to PU is probably the most important thing, some people just arnt confident enough when they start to do it.
I will start by making the analogy of a kid with a new toy. If you gave 10 kids a new tew, while most of them would immediatly get it out and start pressing all the buttons and moving all the parts until they figured it out, some would prefer to first take out the manual and read what they should do to get the best results. Which is better though? NEITHER. I know some of you will disagree with me here but the problem is you are probably disagreeing because you agree with one of those situations and not the other. This is because people learn in different ways, lots more than the 2 ways i outlined in that example.
By trying to teach someone in a way they are not most adapt in learning from, it will take them far longer. Should u critise people for not learning the way you do, ofc not, that would be like critisising them for not having the same opinions as you.
I said it before my edit and i'll say it again, i agree that most KJs are not useful to the community however tarnishing people with the same brush is NOT the right way to get places.
I could argue this more, but it wouldnt achive anything in this post imo.

However, chief, i know it must be frustrating for you possible more than most people. It is undeniable that you put a lot more time and effort into both the forum and the community than your average member, however, critising these people and essentally slagging them off in a sticky isnt going to achive much, the people you are aiming this post at are already so far up their own arse they wont listen. The people who are slowly getting into it because they have the biggest learning curve will think your talking to them. All we can really do is encorage these people that in field is where the game happens, not on a forum. We cant force them to go out and prove they do it. For a sad matrix quote simply because i can
Quote:
We can only show you the door, you have to be the one to walk through it!
Again, this wasnt a flame, just an opinon :)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:23 pm 
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Nah, that's fair. I don't have a problem with people giving advice because after all, they're repeating good advice. It's just the fact that they don't necessarily understand the stuff they're talking about, and that they don't seem to be able to take the advice themselves, that bothers me.

As for people being too far up their own arses to actually listen to this, if it makes a difference to just one guy then it's worth it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:35 pm 
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Quote:
they don't seem to be able to take the advice themselves, that bothers me.
Unfortunatly that is something we cant change. Like i said in my edit some1 can only be shown what to do, we cant do it for them. :(


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:56 pm 
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I dont find this post effective So what exactly is your plan for change? Are u going to ban them or issue warnings? How is telling people to "fucking read this" an then calling them KJ and is going to change anything?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:50 pm 
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I dont find this post effective So what exactly is your plan for change? Are u going to ban them or issue warnings? How is telling people to "fucking read this" an then calling them KJ and is going to change anything?
I am hoping people read this and realize that, if this post describes them, they will change their behavior. There are many new guys who join this site daily and they all come in at different levels...they don't know anyone in the community or puaf so they take whatever advice is given to them. They can't sort out the KJ advice from the advice of seasoned community members and that may stall their progress, if not make them regress.

However, it is not just the KJ's to blame. Like in life, it is YOUR job to make decisions. So, get all the advice you can from everyone here...welcome it all openly. And then sort through it and see what works. You can blame someone for bad advice, but you can't blame them when follow it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:39 pm 
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I think that having the identity of a PUA can create a lot of AA or any other anxiety for that matter because if you fail or get rejected... you are not living up to the ego that you are a PUA. This ego stuff interests me... any more advice?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:10 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Help your fellow brothers who are on the same path as you, but know that all men on this same path are equals, so give advice in a way that primarily helps others pull themselves up instead of doing it in a way that forces them to look up to you. That's a community.
Good post man. Is this why you locked your ask thread?
You're a smart man lol

I'll be unlocking it once I am sure I can approach the thread from a more ego-less perspective. I'm pretty sure I first created that thread somewhat out of ego.
Quote:
I think that having the identity of a PUA can create a lot of AA or any other anxiety for that matter because if you fail or get rejected... you are not living up to the ego that you are a PUA.
Yes, you are absolutely right. I think there are two potential good solutions to that problem:
1. Run away from the identity. The problem with doing this, however, is that which you resist persists. If you run away from the label, the label will chase you. You can still manage to avoid the ego problems while keeping your identity clean relatively well, though.
2. Detach yourself from the identity's meaning. This is what I do. I don't have a problem with people labeling me a "PUA" and I even call myself a PUA from time to time, but I treat it as just a word and nothing more. I don't let it attach any limiting significance to me; it's just like having any first name. It's not a title, it's just a word.

The issue I have with KJs giving advice is that usually the only reason they do that is to get off on the ego gratification. Rarely are they offering information they have researched purely for the sake of helping others selflessly. By the way, this post wasn't just for KJs.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:55 pm 
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So you sit here and bash all these people. But how would we fix this?


I will not lie, I see myself with alot of those qualities.

Chief you mentioned you love women. I hate women. I hate the way they think they need to be treated better than men. How they think they control sex. Not going to lie.

I like being able to been see as someone with power, I want to have people ask me how I did that. Im not going to lie.

I don't try to force pickup on people. I will try to show someone pickup becuase I need a wing. Someone to bounce ideas off of. Someone to motivate me when im down. I will not lie.

But, all in all, im just a peice of shit in this community. Clearly I do not want to be this peice of shit, what would you think would be the approiate way of dealing with this issue I, and many other have?

Gay.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:22 am 
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So you sit here and bash all these people. But how would we fix this?


I will not lie, I see myself with alot of those qualities.

Chief you mentioned you love women. I hate women. I hate the way they think they need to be treated better than men. How they think they control sex. Not going to lie.

I like being able to been see as someone with power, I want to have people ask me how I did that. Im not going to lie.

I don't try to force pickup on people. I will try to show someone pickup becuase I need a wing. Someone to bounce ideas off of. Someone to motivate me when im down. I will not lie.

But, all in all, im just a peice of shit in this community. Clearly I do not want to be this peice of shit, what would you think would be the approiate way of dealing with this issue I, and many other have?

Gay.
Congratulations. Recognizing that you actually possess such issues means that you're already moving toward a better path. The fact that you are actively searching for a better way - by simply asking the question - most likely means that you will achieve this goal.

See? By simply reading this thread you made yourself aware and you motivated yourself toward a direction of change. How do we fix this? Well... it's happening.

I went through a phase of hating women. I've probably been through a majority of the "phases" someone goes through when learning pickup. Well, at least all the ones that newbies and intermediates go through. I understand where you are coming from, but think about how ironic and nonsensical it is to be a pickup artist who hates women. Someone who by definition practices love as an art... a hater?

You may be bitter toward women now, but as you learn more and more about women, how they think, their struggles, their pleasures, what they go through on a day to day basis, and as you experience being around them and being with them, you will eventually see why it makes perfect sense to have nothing but love and compassion for these amazing beings. You're always looking through a limited lens to see reality, but you will be able to dilate that perspective as you learn more about other people and how they view the world.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:38 pm 
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Hobbit, i see your point and i do see everyone who is argueing about the problem points. I agree aswell to some extent, I have said what i think about the parts a disagree and dont have anything more to say about it.

However, great analogy on why KJ's advice isnt perfect. It made your argument more clear.

Madals


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:19 pm 
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your post made me think Chief.i just heard about this community a month ago and i just want to better my interactions w/ women.i dont have a problem getting fs and #s but i want the women i talk with have deeper feelings for me.i usually f-close a chick i met at a party but never see her again.if thats what i was in it for thatd be awesome but i want the women to like LOVE me.i see how my female friends are completely enamored w/ their men and i would rather have that than just get laid every weekend.

is wanting multiple women to be obsessed w/ me an egotistical way to start my life in the seduction community?


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