Where does confidence really come from?

A while ago someone posted a scientific study that theorized the ineffectiveness of positive affirmations. I can't seem to find that post - probably because it got deleted in one of the many technical shit storms of this outdated forum technology - so I can't provide a link. However, from what I remember, a lot of people were getting their panties all up in a bunch.

"I've been practicing positive affirmations for years! I hate you!"
"Why would you post something that would make me feel bad you fucker!"
"I hate you for posting science that challenge my perception of reality built on sand! IT TOOK ME REALLY LONG TO BUILD THAT PERCEPTION OF REALITY!"

You don't have to look too far to see what unfounded self-esteem *cough*ego*cough* has done to people:

No comment.

Confidence is a pretty damn attractive trait. No secret there. Why is it attractive? It's evidence for actually being worth a damn because confidence is a natural byproduct of competence. What a lot of people are trying to do, however, is to get "confidence" right away by looking in the mirror and telling themselves that they are awesome. I call this thing "ego," and it actually hinders you from improving.

You could also call it "self-esteem" or, fuck, you might even call it "confidence." It doesn't matter. People also use the words "confidence," "ego," and "self-esteem" to describe people who feel good about themselves as a result of practice and competence, too.

Yeah, sure, Mystery will tell you to "Fake it until you make it," to fake like you have confidence, and it will make you think that tricking people into having a different perception of you than you have of yourself is an OK thing to do, but FUCK THAT SHIT, MAN. What that kind of thinking will do is:
Step 1. You suck with women
Step 2. You tell yourself that you are a ladies-man.
Step 3. You are a self-proclaimed ladies-man who sucks with women.
Step 4. You're lost in a sea of mental masturbation. You might be getting laid sheerly from just approaching more, though.

But most people are thinking of it as:
Step 1. You suck with women.
Step 2. You tell yourself that you are a ladies-man.
Step 3. ???
Step 4. PROFIT!!!

Clearly, they know what they're doing.

I think Penn & Teller sum it up pretty nicely:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GJ1HWldSlM[/youtube]

Learning how to be optimistic is pretty much mandatory for any aspiring PUA. Tricking yourself into believing that you're better than you actually are, however, is something that should be avoided at all costs. Ever seen a beta male trying to act like an alpha male when he's obviously trying to fool himself? How did that make you feel? Girls get an even bigger gut-wrenching feeling when they see that kind of shit than you do.

So, what should pickup students do instead? Like anything in life worth having, it takes time and effort to obtain it.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOBIq0R4iQY[/youtube]
Man the harpoons!

Just the same, it takes time and effort to properly obtain a new belief:
http://chiefpua.com/adopting-sexy-beliefs/

You need evidence to ground a belief. You can get that evidence through trying, failing, trying, succeeding, etc. In short, you have to "earn your self-esteem" as Penn Jillette so aptly stated.


Oh, and yeah this is another reason why you should try PUA methods that aren't Mystery Method.

I love how your posts are so Epic that nobody even posts a reply!Keep up the good posts!

Faking till you make it wont change your life but I think it will change your night.
Let me elaborate: You can tell yourself you are a god, but the second you start running old habbits you don't look it and because of that trying to change yourself without changing your life will never work as you constantly run into old situations that you respond to in your normal way.
However, once you go to a new environment you can be however the hell you want, as long as you start that way. Go to a new town, you choose how people see you and you will learn to act like that guy.

Think of it like a crazy new hairstyle, all the people who saw you with your old style will be shocked/laugh/etc - anyone who hasn't met you before will notice no difference and therefore will base their opinion on you of the experience THEY had with you NOW, not what had happened before.

Unfortunately, most people cannot just pick up their whole life and move it somewhere new as everyone has commitments (work, school, family, whatever). This means it becomes hard to change, when they laugh at your new hairstyle you have to take it, you have to PROVE its better and that its awesome. Over time, they will accept the new you and adapt how they interact with you - that or you will give in to the social pressure and go back to your old normal style.

Faking it 'til you make it can work if done correctly.

Crappy way: Tell yourself you're awesome, then go down to the bar and expect chicks to approach you.

Good way: Tell yourself that you can be awesome if you work at it, then go down to the bar and open because that's what a more confident "you" would do, and, if you get rejected, don't get upset because a more confident "you" wouldn't get upset.

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Don't hate, just dominate.

Faking it 'til you make it can actually be a good strategy, within limits and if used correctly. For instance, studies have shown that the act of smiling itself can act to increase mood; so if one is uncomfortable or nervous, even if he/she doesn't feel happy, smiling can often still boost morale. It's an instance of the behaviour preceding its apparent cause, but it works. In my experience, confidence can also be similar--it cannot be entirely faked, but if one acts more confident, they often become more confident.

The way that people experience reality is based partly on what actually is, and partially upon how it is perceived. Studies have indicated that even when people know they are lying, the lies that they utter can affect what they believe. Telling yourself that you're God's gift to women when you're terrible in bed won't actually make you less terrible in bed unless you take other steps to combat the problem (kegal exercises, reading, ect.). Where this strategy can be helpful, however, is in the elimination of self-limiting beliefs. Our beliefs about ourselves, even if based in reality, can often become confining. Just because something has been does not mean that it must always be--removing negative beliefs is the first step towards addressing the issue. 'Fake it 'til you make it' shouldn't be about pretending that the issue itself doesn't exist, but about escaping the confines of self-defeating narratives. It alone isn't enough to address a problem, but it is a start.

Well said, everyone.

Except Hobbit since you didn't really explain anything

By the way, the entire point of this thread is to get everyone to watch that "Penn & Teller: Bullshit!" episode I put up there. It's really elucidating.

I'm not sure how people can "fake it till they make it" more than once or twice, after a while it will catch up and you won't even feel good "faking" it. But if you tell most people that they need to make a lifestyle change, they'd rather take the easy pill.

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The best PUA advice is also the best fighting advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ijCSu87 ... rn-1r-4-HM

ive found that my confidence and self-esteem has been raised purely from knowing that i CAN sort this area of my life out.

i always thought it might be possible and kinda tried but i had no idea what to do.

until i found out about this community

so now, im never too bothered about what people think as i know ill improve my self as a person.

i spent a long time of my life just trying to improve myself but gave up, although ive been told that i seem different. id always fold, i had no direction, never knew if i was doing the 'right' thing. but now ive found an entire community on it! so its just nice to get advice and know im on the right tracks

also realise how much of an assfucker social conditioning is

and i personally think, although im a newbie to pick up-not life, that the only self esteem you can have is the thought process that you can physically change and youre not fucked.

the confidence that its been done my countless others in your situation, so you can too. as thats the ONLY confidence you really can have at this point.

and that the ego isnt something too be too dependant on i.e. that if you get a cool car or hot chick and everyone thinks your cool and then you feel happy, as everyone knows

but again i know genuinely getting to that point is probably when you get called "mpua". you'd be hardpressed to find people on here who dont have the idea that picking up a girl with everyone around seeing it and watching you make everyone laugh.

My interpretation is when you rely on outside actions to interpret yourself.

this is all just my interpretation on the subject though, feel free to tell me im wrong, just explain why! so i can get better too

watching Pete and Teller link, Chief you should check out their one on recycling-pretty mindblowing.

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"You don't want girls to think you suck dick at fucking pussy"
-Seth (Superbad)

Post updated

Completely agreed. Confidence or self-esteem is a result of experience. Most don't want to hear this when starting out, but it's true. That's why it is so important to focus on the game, and not on the women. The women come as a byproduct of focusing on game. Get competent at game.

great video.. Although, i have few comments on it.. Sure, sitting on your ass and just trying to convince yourself that you are great without doing shit is none sense and i agree with that. But there is nothing wrong with being positive and viewing everything you do in life as a lesson( that's positive no? ) .. I actually thought that those commentators just wanted to contradict everything those self help couches were saying ( sure something of them are really pathetic.. like that doll thing ) and they were negative towards everything. Also, if you haven't read " 6 pillars of self esteem" you should read it soon. A good read if you want to be to improve yourself in general.

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In this world, you don't get what you deserve but what you fight for!

I once read (I cannot remember the source, I am sorry) a post making an interesting point, which is that there is a difference between ego and self esteem. Said post argued that, while both can seem like the same from an external POV, there are some considerable differences between them that make the "ego" a less desiarable option.

The ego is something that constantly needs to be fed with achievements and validated in order to be sustained. You can make your ego grow with a big bank account. With the big muscles you acquired at the gym. With results from your PUA actions. With new clothes. These are all things that can feed it and make it grow. However, at your heart, you will always be dependant on externalities and will easily be brought off balance when your life is not going so well (and let's face it, life is not always perfect).

Self esteem, however, is different. Self esteem is something we are all born with, however, due to life or social conditioning, some of us have lost or forgotten it. You know who has self esteem? Any healthy kid from a well functioning family. As a kid, you are not afraid of interacting with others. You go to the park and you play with other kids and you take what you want and it's all good. You know who else? Alpha males. Naturals. No matter matter what happened before or how life is going for them, they are not afraid. When a natural approaches a girl, he does not think about past rejections he might have suffered. He does not think of himself as great ladies man. He does so because he wants to. Because there is a strong emotion compelling him to do so, and it is that integrity that usually makes them sucessful (well that and the fact that they are likely to have enough life experience to have improved whatever areas of their life needed to be improved).

What I am trying to say, I guess, is that I think self esteem and results do not necessarily have to go tied together. Of course, I am not advocating for senseless ego stroking while your achievements are sub par. I am not saying you should not be learning from your mistakes. I am not saying that you should not actively try to improve yourself every day. But I agree with that post in the sense that I think it is important to have a solid self esteem, something that will compel you to act and be sure of yourself even if things have not gone so well for you. That in the ideal case, you do not need to "fake it", but can find your inner self esteem, something innate to you. Something that will compel you to act in a certain way and be sure of yourself because fuck it, you want to and you deserve it.

Edit: Ah, found it! Maybe read the link instead of my babbling, it certainly is better at bringing the point across!

the-centered-man-manifesto-defining-you ... teem%20ego

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